Does "The Butler" get Ronald Reagan Wrong?

[apdst]

Hag? ?

Images of Jane Fonda « Images of Sexy Women

You need to look up the definition of treason.

 

[DiAnna]

So . . . you do not believe she provided aid and comfort to the enemy?

You're deflecting as well. If you'd read my initial post AND the post right above this one which said:

If you had read my post, you already know I found her behavior and actions to be despicable.

...Then you'd already have the answer.

 

[Jack Hays]

You're deflecting as well. If you'd read my initial post AND the post right above this one which said:



...Then you'd already have the answer.

Many things are despicable but don't rise to the level of aid and comfort to the enemy. I believe Fonda rose to that level; she provided aid and comfort to the enemy.eace

 

[DiAnna]

Then, why are you defending the treasonus ****?

It was Benedict Arnold's wife's idea to sell out to the British, not his, but that doesn't make him any less of a traitor.

Dispelling blatant lies against her is hardly defending her. I despise what she did, I hate that she let herself be used as propaganda, but I'm not going to hold a 45-year grudge against a woman who did something stupid and despicable as a young woman barely out of her teens. You want to hate her until your grave, go for it. But hate her for what she really did, not for things fabricated for no other reason than to slander her with lies, as if you don't believe the actual truth is vile enough to support your hatred.

 

[Jack Hays]

Dispelling blatant lies against her is hardly defending her. I despise what she did, I hate that she let herself be used as propaganda, but I'm not going to hold a 45-year grudge against a woman who did something stupid and despicable as a young woman barely out of her teens. You want to hate her until your grave, go for it. But hate her for what she really did, not for things fabricated for no other reason than to slander her with lies, as if you don't believe the actual truth is vile enough to support your hatred.

"Aid And Comfort": Jane Fonda In North Vietnam"
By: Henry Mark Holzer & Erika Holzer

I invite your attention to this book.eace

 

[DiAnna]

She purposely got some of our VN pow's tortured. She was essentially a heartless asshole.

No, she didn't. That is a pack of lies that has already been debunked. Please check out the snopes link that I posted. Not one whit of that decades-old slander is true.

Now I'm no fan. I hate what she did, never really forgave her for being so stupid and allowing herself to be used. But I don't need to bolster my dislike by pretending she did other vile things in order to bolster my outrage. What she did was vile enough. No need to compound the ignorance with blatant lies.

 

[solletica]

A treaty is an express agreement under international law entered into by actors in international law, namely sovereign states and international organizations. A treaty may also be known as an (international) agreement, protocol, covenant, contract,convention, pact, or exchange of letters, among other terms. Regardless of terminology, all of these forms of agreements are, under international law, equally considered treaties and the rules are the same.[SUP][1][/SUP]
Treaties can be loosely compared to contracts: both are means of willing parties assuming obligations among themselves, and a party to either that fails to live up to their obligations can be held liable under international law.eace

And there was no contract between the American people or any subset of them w/the South Vietnamese. None, zero.

Only the US gov't signed the Manila Pact, and incorporated S. Vietnam into it, and the US gov't is entirely different from the American people (as evidenced by the fact that the majority opposed the gov't for its actions).

Yet you keep insisting that the NVA were the enemies of the people, even though you've yet to provide any evidence at all that the NVA attacked (w/out provokation) anyone in the country or any ally of the American people (as opposed to an ally of the gov't).

 

[Jack Hays]

And there was no contract between the American people or any subset of them w/the South Vietnamese. None, zero.

Only the US gov't signed the Manila Pact, and incorporated S. Vietnam into it, and the US gov't is entirely different from the American people (as evidenced by the fact that the majority opposed the gov't for its actions).

Yet you keep insisting that the NVA were the enemies of the people, even though you've yet to provide any evidence at all that the NVA attacked (w/out provokation) anyone in the country or any ally of the American people (as opposed to the gov't).

I have made no claims about any people anywhere. The NVA made themselves enemies of the United States by attacking our treaty-bound ally, South Vietnam. They committed aggression; the United States came to the aid of our ally, the victim of aggression. Jane Fonda chose to aid the aggressor and our enemy.eace

 

[Jack Hays]

And there was no contract between the American people or any subset of them w/the South Vietnamese. None, zero.

Only the US gov't signed the Manila Pact, and incorporated S. Vietnam into it, and the US gov't is entirely different from the American people (as evidenced by the fact that the majority opposed the gov't for its actions).

Yet you keep insisting that the NVA were the enemies of the people, even though you've yet to provide any evidence at all that the NVA attacked (w/out provokation) anyone in the country or any ally of the American people (as opposed to an ally of the gov't).

Correct. "People" can't make treaties.eace

 

[solletica]

I have made no claims about any people anywhere. The NVA made themselves enemies of the United States by attacking our treaty-bound ally, South Vietnam.

BZZZT. Wrong again. They were not our ally. They were only the US gov't's ally, nothing more.

The military brainwashes its soldiers into believing the US gov't and the people are one and the same (i. e. the military fights for the people), but that's fiction.

The people voraciously opposed the US gov't actions, and hence, no such unity existed, not then, nor now.

 

[Jack Hays]

BZZZT. Wrong again. They were not our ally. They were only the US gov't's ally, nothing more.

The military brainwashes its soldiers into believing the US gov't and the people are one and the same (i. e. the military fights for the people), but that's fiction.

The people voraciously opposed the US gov't actions, and hence, no such unity existed, not then, nor now.

Sorry, but I won't waste any more time confronting irrationality. Have a nice life.eace

 

[solletica]

Sorry, but I won't waste any more time confronting irrationality.

You're embracing irrationality, i. e. the people and the gov't are on the same side, even though one opposed the other.

 

[American]

Oh God, the persecution! Somebody save the conservatives from persecution!

Someone struck a nerve.

 

[apdst]

Dispelling blatant lies against her is hardly defending her. I despise what she did, I hate that she let herself be used as propaganda, but I'm not going to hold a 45-year grudge against a woman who did something stupid and despicable as a young woman barely out of her teens. You want to hate her until your grave, go for it. But hate her for what she really did, not for things fabricated for no other reason than to slander her with lies, as if you don't believe the actual truth is vile enough to support your hatred.

She was 35 years old when she decided to sell out her country and it's troops to the enemy.

Perhaps YOU should do a little research before you forgive the commie-loving, dirt bag whore so easily?

 

[apdst]

BZZZT. Wrong again. They were not our ally. They were only the US gov't's ally, nothing more.

The military brainwashes its soldiers into believing the US gov't and the people are one and the same (i. e. the military fights for the people), but that's fiction.

The people voraciously opposed the US gov't actions, and hence, no such unity existed, not then, nor now.

South Vietnam lost 171,000+ men fighting against the commies. Yes, they were on our side and that sacrifice makes them our ally.

 

[solletica]

South Vietnam lost 171,000+ men fighting against the commies. Yes, they were on our side and that sacrifice makes them our ally.

False. An ally, by definition, requires a contract, either formal or informal.

And no such contract existed between S. Vietnam and the American people, which is brutally obvious considering popular opposition to the war.

 

[solletica]

She was 35 years old when she decided to sell out her country and it's troops to the enemy.

We've been waiting for several posts now for someone to tell us when/where that happened,

or when/where the NVA became the enemy of the American people (as opposed to the US gov't).

Perhaps YOU should do a little research before you forgive the commie-loving, dirt bag whore so easily?

What does Michelle Bachmann have to do w/this?

 

[apdst]

False. An ally, by definition, requires a contract, either formal or informal.

And no such contract existed between S. Vietnam and the American people, which is brutally obvious considering popular opposition to the war.

Oh really? Got something back that nonsense up?

 

[solletica]

Oh really? Got something back that nonsense up?

Show us the contract between the American people and the ARVN.

The burden of proof is on those claiming the South was our ally :lol:

 

[apdst]

We've been waiting for several posts now for someone to tell us when/where that happened,

or when/where the NVA became the enemy of the American people (as opposed to the US gov't).

They were communists and allied with The Soviets. That's should be proof enough.

What does Michelle Bachmann have to do w/this?

That's just stupid.

 

[solletica]

They were communists and allied with The Soviets. That's should be proof enough.

How does the NVA being allied w/the Soviets prove that the SVA was allied w/the American people. Explain.

That's just stupid.

An accurate description of bachmann. Dunno why you brought her into this, though.

 

[apdst]

How does the NVA being allied w/the Soviets prove that the SVA was allied w/the American people. Explain.

You asked how was the NVA an enemy to America. Do try and keep up with your own comments.

An accurate description of bachmann. Dunno why you brought her into this, though.

I didn't...you did. Not sure why, except as a way to draw attention away from your hero, the scumbag, **** sucking whore Jane Fonda.

 

[solletica]

You asked how was the NVA an enemy to America.

Which you offered no proof of.

Being allied w/the Soviets doesn't make them an enemy of America--obvious considering most Americans opposed fighting them just for that reason

I didn't...you did. Not sure why, except as a way to draw attention away from your hero, the scumbag, **** sucking whore Jane Fonda.

Fonda didn't suck the govt's ****; only the US troops did (though many of them had no choice since they were drafted, but could still have mutinied).

However, it's generally accepted here in MN accepted that "****-sucking whore" always refers to bachmann, considering she quit only when the corporate semen ran out.