Does sexual education have any result?

[Hard Truth]

I don't disagree that ignorance is not an answer. However, why not send materials home to parents and let them review them and deliver them and/or share reading them with their children in the comfort and security of their homes and in an environment that's not threatening or intimidating to the child?

Surely, if there's a societal goal and benefit to be derived, the school does not have to be the only place where that program may be delivered. In other words, help parents don't replace them.

I don't know if that would work with many families, but its worth a trial. It won't work for every family, so it should not be the only option.

 

[roguenuke]

they start sex-ed in 6th grade here in Texas.

i've had 2 daughters go through their sex-ed classes.... contrary to popular belief around here, they teach a lot more than abstinence.

our family is pretty open about our sexual lives ( too open, sometimes)... we've had no problems and all our kids are grown and gone now.... no STD's , no unwanted pregnancies, etc.

we taught our kids to be safe when/if they have sex, and we taught them the wisdom of abstaining... the key is in explaining why in terms they can understand.

School districts don't have to do that though (and from the info we have, it doesn't sound as if this school district does that).

As for the rest I agree which is how my parents did it with the same results. Not all parents do or can though. My mother offered to talk to my cousins for my aunt because such conversations were highly uncomfortable for her.

 

[Thrilla]

Please provide a link showing that it isn't abstinence only.

for 9th and 10th graders... this is the health class curriculum ( as opposed to the sexual behaviors curriculum, if one exists at a district)
19 TAC Chapter 115. Subchapter C
for 11th and 12th graders
19 TAC Chapter 115. Subchapter C
for middle schoolers
19 TAC Chapter 115. Subchapter B


it's accurately considered "abstinence plus".. not "abstinence only"

I've had 2 daughter graduate Texas schools... and while i don't find their curriculum comprehensive enough, it's certainly not absent basic instruction on contraception, etc.

as i've said, most parents who teach their kids about sex also stress abstinence... this curriculum basically mirrors that.

 

[Thrilla]

School districts don't have to do that though (and from the info we have, it doesn't sound as if this school district does that).

As for the rest I agree which is how my parents did it with the same results. Not all parents do or can though. My mother offered to talk to my cousins for my aunt because such conversations were highly uncomfortable for her.

yes, they do have to offer it.... districts don't have to offer a sexual behaviors class, but required health classes cover the basic stuff.

our conversations didn't get too awkward until after our kids started having sex.... i'm glad they wanted to talk to us, but there are some things that no father wants to hear his daughter say.:lol:

 

[Thrilla]

Most parents lack the knowledge and the courage required to provide their children with adequate sex ed. Since ignorance can lead to disease, unintended pregnancy and death, and comprehensive sex ed has been proven to be effective, we should not let parent's superstitions and unfounded fear keep children ignorant.

I disagree... I don't think parents lack the knowledge.. and i don't even think the kids lack the knowledge.

I think the kids don't put the knowledge to work when it needs to be.

knowing you should wear a condom for sex is something just about everyone knows.... actually putting one on is quite another story.
hormones running wild overpower even the keenest of intellects..hell, i'm surprised I wasn't a father by the time I was 15.
even back then (mid to late 60's) we knew condoms prevented pregnancy and the clap... but hey, free love meant not having to worry about protection...sexual revolution baby... it was a good time.

I'd wager if you polled these kids at this school with STD's 100% of them know they should wear a condom to protect themselves.... just as 100% of them know they can't get STD's or get pregnant if they don't have sex.
so yeah, I don't think it's the knowledge... i think it's poor decision making.... albeit poor decision making that we can all sympathize with (well, those of us who have sex, that is)

 

[Thrilla]

Per the OP's link: "The high school offers a three-day sexual education course once a year that emphasizes abstinence." The state guidelines seem to be virtually, if not entirely, abstinence only. Many of those classes wrongly give students the impression that condoms are ineffective. The phrse "Use human reality rates rather than laboratory rates" in the state guidelines sounds like coded wording for "give students the impression that condoms are ineffective."

the article didn't cover required health class curriculum...

and no, that last part is not a code for anything of the sort... it simply requires "typical use" be taught rather than " perfect use"
for example, condom failure... under a "perfect use" scenario, the failure rate is roughly 10%... but a "typical use" scenario has a failure rate of roughly 20%.
reality versus theory.

 

[Thrilla]

...Three days that apparently stress abstinence. I've seen that kind of class. It is not sex ed. There is no "education" component to it. Often, it's filled with flat-out lies.

I am not surprised their students are getting STD's. They don't know how to prevent them. They probably don't even know how to have an actual conversation about it with their partners.

what about those students with STD's that have been privy to a comprehensive sex education?... what's the excuse for them?

as i've long said, I don't think it's about the knowledge itself... I think it's more about failing to put the knowledge to work at the appropriate time..

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

what about those students with STD's that have been privy to a comprehensive sex education?... what's the excuse for them?

as i've long said, I don't think it's about the knowledge itself... I think it's more about failing to put the knowledge to work at the appropriate time..

There will always be some. There's 7 billion people on earth. How could there not be?

But that doesn't change the fact that there would be much fewer of them if schools didn't peddle stupid nonsense that leaves their students ignorant.

Yes, it is about knowledge. Places with proper sex ed have dramatically lower STD and unwanted pregnancy rates. That is quite simply a fact which plays out the same way everywhere in the entire world.

Everyone has moments of passion. But those of us who are mentally competent adults, if provided sufficient information, can make decisions about when to set our passion aside and make sure we do the smart thing. I always did. Most people in most other developed countries do as well. So, you are simply factually wrong. Knowledge changes people's behavior. Humans are not cats in heat, and we're capable of thinking these things through, provided we know what to consider.

Due to sheer numbers, there will always be some who fail to do so. There will also always be some who fall through the cracks of education. But their numbers are much lower in places that actually educate, rather than promoting ignorance. It is frankly insane to try to claim otherwise, in defiance of all known evidence, and with a shocking degree of apathy for the health of young people. This is why America can't solve this problem, and many others: as a whole, its people believe ignorance works just as well as knowledge. That is nonsense.

 

[Thrilla]

There will always be some. There's 7 billion people on earth. How could there not be?

But that doesn't change the fact that there would be much fewer of them if schools didn't peddle stupid nonsense that leaves their students ignorant.

Yes, it is about knowledge. Places with proper sex ed have dramatically lower STD and unwanted pregnancy rates. That is quite simply a fact which plays out the same way everywhere in the entire world.

Everyone has moments of passion. But those of us who are mentally competent adults, if provided sufficient information, can make decisions about when to set our passion aside and make sure we do the smart thing. I always did. Most people in most other developed countries do as well. So, you are simply factually wrong. Knowledge changes people's behavior. Humans are not cats in heat, and we're capable of thinking these things through, provided we know what to consider.

Due to sheer numbers, there will always be some who fail to do so. There will also always be some who fall through the cracks of education. But their numbers are much lower in places that actually educate, rather than promoting ignorance. It is frankly insane to try to claim otherwise, in defiance of all known evidence, and with a shocking degree of apathy for the health of young people. This is why America can't solve this problem, and many others: as a whole, its people believe ignorance works just as well as knowledge. That is nonsense.

as for knowledge, the vast majority of kids have the knowledge... it's also fact that kids list parents, peers, and media, as their primary education sources. in that order( according to Guttmacher institute)
the latter came as a surprise to me.. i'd figure school would have ranked somewhere in there.

maybe we're barking up the wrong tree here... maybe we need to be arming parents more and focusing less on the source that not even kids are paying attention to.... I dunno.

as for "promoting ignorance"... I don't find that to be an accurate statement at all....that sounds rather like your own personal value judgement than anything else.


In addition , I was also surprised to learn the the US has 9 million new cases of chlamydia each year.... but i guess that's just supposed to mean that 9 million kids are found to be without any knowledge, each year. :roll:

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

as for knowledge, the vast majority of kids have the knowledge... it's also fact that kids list parents, peers, and media, as their primary education sources. in that order( according to Guttmacher institute)
the latter came as a surprise to me.. i'd figure school would have ranked somewhere in there.

maybe we're barking up the wrong tree here... maybe we need to be arming parents more and focusing less on the source that not even kids are paying attention to.... I dunno.

as for "promoting ignorance"... I don't find that to be an accurate statement at all....that sounds rather like your own personal value judgement than anything else.


In addition , I was also surprised to learn the the US has 9 million new cases of chlamydia each year.... but i guess that's just supposed to mean that 9 million kids are found to be without any knowledge, each year. :roll:

No, they don't. I have seen parents on DP who don't really get how babies are made. I sat through one of these abstinence-only classes and heard the nonsense lies they tell. No, a lot of kids in America DON'T have this knowledge. That's why America's sexual health is so terribly poor compared to most other developed nations, nearly all of whom educate better.

Arming parents with what, and how? You don't need a license to be a parent. We can't corral them anywhere. That's why we cover things like finances, shop, and indeed, sex ed, in schools. Because there's no guarantee the parents will do it.

Yes, promoting ignorance. Your solution to this problem is "I dunno," and "Well, it won't work anyway," despite the fact that it's worked everywhere it's ever been done -- including some places in the US. That is lazy, and promoting ignorance. Yes, it is a value judgement. I absolutely judge when people don't care about the well-being of the country's youth, and who think ignorance is just as good as knowledge.

9 million? I'm surprised it's not higher, with the disgrace of an education system the country endures. A thousand ignorant young people come out of my former high school alone, every single year. It must be the internet helping things along.

 

[Thrilla]

No, they don't. I have seen parents on DP who don't really get how babies are made. I sat through one of these abstinence-only classes and heard the nonsense lies they tell. No, a lot of kids in America DON'T have this knowledge. That's why America's sexual health is so terribly poor compared to most other developed nations, nearly all of whom educate better.

Arming parents with what, and how? You don't need a license to be a parent. We can't corral them anywhere. That's why we cover things like finances, shop, and indeed, sex ed, in schools. Because there's no guarantee the parents will do it.

Yes, promoting ignorance. Your solution to this problem is "I dunno," and "Well, it won't work anyway," despite the fact that it's worked everywhere it's ever been done -- including some places in the US. That is lazy, and promoting ignorance. Yes, it is a value judgement. I absolutely judge when people don't care about the well-being of the country's youth, and who think ignorance is just as good as knowledge.

9 million? I'm surprised it's not higher, with the disgrace of an education system the country endures. A thousand ignorant young people come out of my former high school alone, every single year. It must be the internet helping things along.

well.. good luck to ya... i'm sure being bitter and assholish will make things all better.:roll:

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

well.. good luck to ya... i'm sure being bitter and assholish will make things all better.:roll:

Since when? How do you know what I've spent my time doing? Sounds like you're just upset for being called out on supporting such an obviously indefensible and idiotic position.

Like your ambivalence and lazy thinking has made things better?

 

[Thrilla]

Since when? How do you know what I've spent my time doing? Sounds like you're just upset for being called out on supporting such an obviously indefensible and idiotic position.

Like your ambivalence and lazy thinking has made things better?

call me when you decide to have a chat rather than simply being an asshole.... or don't.... I don't care.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

call me when you decide to have a chat rather than simply being an asshole.... or don't.... I don't care.

Says the guy who's getting so smarmy and upset about me suggesting educating people. What is your deal? :lol:

Have fun.

 

[Thrilla]

Says the guy who's so smarmy and upset about the idea of educating people. What is your deal? :lol:

Have fun.

don't project your behavior on to me... and don't tell falsehoods about me.

cya tomorrow

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

don't project your behavior on to me... and don't tell falsehoods about me.

cya tomorrow

Don't have to. You've been wigging out a lot lately over nonsense you just seem to be sputtering out. Don't imagine it's doing anything for your points, eh?

 

[Thrilla]

Don't have to. You've been wigging out a lot lately over nonsense you just seem to be sputtering out. Don't imagine it's doing anything for your points, eh?

if you don't have to , why are you?

I like how you utterly ignore most of what i say, and then lie about me.. it makes chatting with you so very pleasant.

for instance, when I say i'm a big fan of educating the kids comprehensively, and then you say i'm somehow opposed to educating the kids.. I mean.. it's great fun dealing with someone who does that ....repeatedly.

not sure why you have a beef with me.. and I really don't give a ****... but the very least you should do is be honest.

 

[beefheart]

Abstinence-Only Texas High School Hit By Chlamydia Outbreak; 1 In 15 Students Affected

Despite the fact that sexual education begins at an early age it can not prevent such incidents. Students gain much more information from pornsites and personal experience. In my opinion, sex education should not emphasize abstinence but should be so effective and interesting that students even had no desire to test porn filth from the screen on themselves.

Texas Nuff' said

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

if you don't have to , why are you?

I like how you utterly ignore most of what i say, and then lie about me.. it makes chatting with you so very pleasant.

for instance, when I say i'm a big fan of educating the kids comprehensively, and then you say i'm somehow opposed to educating the kids.. I mean.. it's great fun dealing with someone who does that ....repeatedly.

not sure why you have a beef with me.. and I really don't give a ****... but the very least you should do is be honest.

Why am I what, dude? I thought you were leaving. :lol:

I responded to all of it. You got grouchy about not having people blindly agree with you, and came back with nothing but a rude one-liner.

If that's true, why are you saying why bother with education?

I don't. You quoted me first, remember? Are you coming or going, dude? You might split your head in half with all this double speak, so maybe you wanna figure out what you actually think.

 

[Thrilla]

Why am I what, dude? I thought you were leaving. :lol:

I responded to all of it. You got grouchy about not having people blindly agree with you, and came back with nothing but a rude one-liner.

If that's true, why are you saying why bother with education?

I don't. You quoted me first, remember? Are you coming or going, dude? You might split your head in half with all this double speak, so maybe you wanna figure out what you actually think.

your misrepresenting my words and projecting your behavior on to me....you got bitter and rude with me, i respond in kind...that's how it works.
if you want a discussion, i'm fine with that.. but if you're going to be an asshole, you can go talk to yourself for all i care.
and i am leaving.. but i'm an addict... and i keep seeing people quote me... goddammit :lol:

of course it's true.. i've said it a few times in this thread even...I am a big fan of comprehensive sex ed ,to include abstinence..

if you don't have a beef with me, why are you an asshole in just about every thread we have discussions in?.. is that just your natural personality?

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

your misrepresenting my words and projecting your behavior on to me....you got bitter and rude with me, i respond in kind...that's how it works.
if you want a discussion, i'm fine with that.. but if you're going to be an asshole, you can go talk to yourself for all i care.
and i am leaving.. but i'm an addict... and i keep seeing people quote me... goddammit :lol:

of course it's true.. i've said it a few times in this thread even...I am a big fan of comprehensive sex ed ,to include abstinence..

if you don't have a beef with me, why are you an asshole in just about every thread we have discussions in?.. is that just your natural personality?

I guess ya finally left. :coffeepap

 

[Ryan5]

It is the Catholic anti-condom and anti-(other) birth control teachings that contribute to that. There is no culture where teenagers actually don't have sex, just many cultures where adults pretend teenagers don't have sex.

It's definitely true that Less Sexual Awareness by young people = More and Earlier Sex and More Teen Pregnancy.









It's a simple fact. And yes those almost always tend to be ultra religious demographics.











It is somewhat ironic how life works in that the more young people know about sex the less sex they have and this has been proven in dozens of studies.

 

[Gathomas88]

Frankly, the problem is more one of culture and behavioral expectations than anything else.

You can have all the "abstinence only" education in the world, and it's ultimately going to be a lost cause in an environment where teens are constantly being bombarded with hyper-sexualized messages in media, and from their peer group, undermining it. That problem's only been exacerbated by overly permissive parenting.

Long story short, you put a horny young man and woman together unsupervised, something's eventually going to happen. You throw alcohol and other perception altering substances into the mix, you virtually guarantee it.

Parents are apparently okay with that - because, really, the unspoken link between dating and teenage "sexploration" is so deeply ingrained in our culture that most people take it as given, regardless of their latent religiosity - so the problem remains.

Basically all of the deeply religious homeschooling families I knew growing up, by way of contrast, either didn't allow dating before a certain age, or made sure it only took place under controlled circumstances, with a chaperone present, for that exact reason.

Old fashioned? Sure.

However, I never heard of any STDs or unwanted pregnancies either. :shrug:

 

[3step]

Your evidence that sex ed doesn't work, is that a school that DOESN'T teach sex ed has a problem with STD's?

You probably should point guns at your feet like that...

They have only 3 sex ed lessons a year. Don't you think it's too little to make students understand what is sex and how to make it properly and safely? 1 of 15 had failed and catched chlamydia. Seems like porn movies aren't enough to learn about sex, huh?

 

[RAMOSS]

No, sex education does not "start early" in this particular school system, since it is not taught at all in this school and if it was, it would emphasize abstinence, meaning it would be pretty unreliable in defending against something like this happening.

Well, they do have the 3 day abstinence only class once a year. It doesn't seem that works well.