Does anyone think to consider the rights of the Abortionee?

[mac]

Yes, in fact it was.

The difference: a child depends 100% on a guardian or provider for all of their needs - and gives nothing back. Emotional - fulfillment and nothing more comes from a child being in your life. A slave, however, provides you with the means for you to survive - without little recourse or compensation.

So, a child has no value and therefore is not a person. Is that right? What does a real person "give back"?

 

[Aunt Spiker]

So, a child has no value and therefore is not a person. Is that right? What does a real person "give back"?

Every positive thing I can recall from being a parent all these years is *purely* emotional . . . yet that is enough to outweigh ALL the many negatives that have netted physical, financial, employment and societal set-backs.

I firmly believe that it is *impossible* for someone to be a good parent if they don't *emotionally* have theirself vested in the relationship.
Do you disagree?

Do you think that someone who is emotionally unattached, who doesn't love or care for their offspring, or who even might *hate* their child can be a good parent *naturally* and without question?

However - my statement was in regard to the suggestion that children and slaves can be argued for their rights on the same level.
Which they can't be because of what it takes to classify one as a child - and classify one as a slave. . . it's apples and oranges in *that sense*

 

[Paschendale]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that an unborn child has no rights. Just that it has fewer rights than its mother.

 

[mac]

Every positive thing I can recall from being a parent all these years is *purely* emotional . . . yet that is enough to outweigh ALL the many negatives that have netted physical, financial, employment and societal set-backs.

I firmly believe that it is *impossible* for someone to be a good parent if they don't *emotionally* have theirself vested in the relationship.
Do you disagree?

Do you think that someone who is emotionally unattached, who doesn't love or care for their offspring, or who even might *hate* their child can be a good parent *naturally* and without question?

However - my statement was in regard to the suggestion that children and slaves can be argued for their rights on the same level.
Which they can't be because of what it takes to classify one as a child - and classify one as a slave. . . it's apples and oranges in *that sense*

I don't disagree with anything you just said. I do however disagree with the notion that the unborn child is not a real person, or that it is better to end an innocent life as a result of the parent's emotions or lack thereof.

 

[majora$$hole]

Until a child is born, it is physically attached to, and a part of its mother. Until it is capable of existing on its own outside of her body, then it is not a separate person. It is no more a person than an arm or a leg. The crux of the issue is not "do fetuses have rights", it is "whose rights (the fetus vs the mother) win out when they are in conflict?"

Forcing a woman to carry a child that she does not want to carry is clearly infringing on her rights. In a warm and fuzzy way, of course it's a bad thing to kill an unborn child. But it is worse to require a person to allow another creature to feed off of them, and then require that person to devote the rest of their life to caring for this parasite. If you have to harm one person to benefit the other, how can you choose to hurt a living, intelligent person over an incomplete creature?

this is what the first trimester in r.v.w. is for.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

I don't disagree with anything you just said. I do however disagree with the notion that the unborn child is not a real person, or that it is better to end an innocent life as a result of the parent's emotions or lack thereof.

Well that was never my point or view - sorry if I led you to believe it was.

 

[Bodi]

Animals are more sentient. What rights would you give them?

Who has more rights? If a pregnant lady of 40 weeks was walking along and fell over, hit her head and died, and then a bear came along and started to eat her and you just happened to be there with all the medical equipment and training to perform a C-Section and save the baby, you would shoot the bear and save the developing baby, wouldn't you? I think that most sane, rational and honest people would do that.

 

[Ikari]

Who has more rights? If a pregnant lady of 40 weeks was walking along and fell over, hit her head and died, and then a bear came along and started to eat her and you just happened to be there with all the medical equipment and training to perform a C-Section and save the baby, you would shoot the bear and save the developing baby, wouldn't you? I think that most sane, rational and honest people would do that.

Hell no man, I'm not ****ing with a bear.

 

[Wake]

Hell no man, I'm not ****ing with a bear.

Well, then that is a difference between us.

 

[Ikari]

Well, then that is a difference between us.

Fine, just don't bitch about being eaten by a bear.

 

[Bodi]

Fine, just don't bitch about being eaten by a bear.

If he does bitch about it, get it on film 'cause a dead guy bitching would be classic...

 

[SheWolf]

For the same reason you can assume a person has any other right.

What rights does it not have?? It's not old enough to vote, buy a gun, join the military, etc. etc... It's a minor, it's not in charge of it's own medical decisions. It doesn't have the capacity to make an end of life decision, nor does any minor.. and when that is the case and it is on life support (in this case my body is the life support system), then I am within my rights to pull the so called plug on it.

 

[SheWolf]

Is the zef a human? Yes. Does it deserve human rights? This is what the debate is about. I do believe that human life in all stages is worthy of human rights and the right to life. We have committed many atrocities by rationalizing why it is ok to deny certain groups human rights. One example would be enslaving Africans and not giving them full citizenship and denying them their human rights because they were genetically different. I believe the same atrocity is committed in rationalizing why we should deprive unborn humans of their human rights, including their right to life.

If a zef is given a right to life.. meaning free persons in society have a legal duty to support it's life via their body, then I want the same right to life. If you don't give me rights to free persons' bodily organs, body tissue and blood for my survival and prolonging of my life.. then you are treating me like an enslaved black African and that is just a d*mn atrocity

 

[mac]

If a zef is given a right to life.. meaning free persons in society have a legal duty to support it's life via their body, then I want the same right to life. If you don't give me rights to free persons' bodily organs, body tissue and blood for my survival and prolonging of my life.. then you are treating me like an enslaved black African and that is just a d*mn atrocity

So, you feel that you should have the same rights the unborn child has.

 

[SheWolf]

So, you feel that you should have the same rights the unborn child has.

Yes.. why shouldn't I? I am a human being.

 

[Bodi]

Yes.. why shouldn't I? I am a human being.

You already do, they are called donors.

What is so ridiculously lame about your argument is that it calls for all of society to swallow this huge "lack of reality" pill. Pregnancy is unique. To make analogous parallels between a zef and a fully developed human is illogical at best, and plain idiotic overall.

 

[SheWolf]

You already do, they are called donors.

What is so ridiculously lame about your argument is that it calls for all of society to swallow this huge "lack of reality" pill. Pregnancy is unique. To make analogous parallels between a zef and a fully developed human is illogical at best, and plain idiotic overall.

Call them donors.. Thats a great idea. We can choose to donate organs and our bodies to life. I may choose to donate my uterus to a zef one day. How brilliant!

 

[SheWolf]

You already do, they are called donors.

What is so ridiculously lame about your argument is that it calls for all of society to swallow this huge "lack of reality" pill. Pregnancy is unique. To make analogous parallels between a zef and a fully developed human is illogical at best, and plain idiotic overall.

Hey you know what.. I have seen a lot of prolifers on here comparing zef to fully developed people.

What's the difference between killing your unborn child and a two year old? Or killing a zef and a person who is sleeping?

There is no difference between enslaving a African and having an abortion.. have you heard that one?

Yea... it seems to be them doing it the most too.. :doh

 

[Bodi]

Hey you know what.. I have seen a lot of prolifers on here comparing zef to fully developed people.

And that is idiotic...

What's the difference between killing your unborn child and a two year old?

There is no difference...

Or killing a zef and a person who is sleeping?

One is a first term abortion and the other is murder...

There is no difference between enslaving a African and having an abortion.. have you heard that one?

No... they are completely different...

Yea... it seems to be them doing it the most too.. :doh

Them...?

Shewolf
If you don't give me rights to free persons' bodily organs, body tissue and blood for my survival and prolonging of my life..

Bodi
You already do, they are called donors

Shewolf
Call them donors.. Thats a great idea. We can choose to donate organs and our bodies to life. I may choose to donate my uterus to a zef one day. How brilliant!

Does that help...?

In the end, you have yet to address this:

your argument ... calls for ... society to swallow this huge "lack of reality" pill. Pregnancy is unique. To make analogous parallels between a zef and a fully developed human is illogical at best

 

[Gladiator]

So, you feel that you should have the same rights the unborn child has.

A mother of a non-viable fetus, should have rights that are superior to the rights of her potential for a child. In the US, under Roe v Wade, the mother has absolute rights over the zygot, blastocyst, embryo, fetus, etc, during the first three months of pregnancy.

If 22,000 children are dying of starvation, today, who has superior rigths? The rights of the existing, starving children, or the rights of another mouth to feed, of an unwanted progeny?

Under the Pope, and the goals of the controlling Pro-Life legislators in the US, contraception should be outlawed. Sensuality should be the law dictating existance.



//

 

[Bodi]

A mother of a non-viable fetus, should have rights that are superior to the rights of her potential for a child. In the US, under Roe v Wade, the mother has absolute rights over the zygot, blastocyst, embryo, fetus, etc, during the first three months of pregnancy.

She shouldn't have rights over the baby once it enters the fetus stage unless there is a life and death issue...

If 22,000 children are dying of starvation, today, who has superior rigths? The rights of the existing, starving children, or the rights of another mouth to feed, of an unwanted progeny?

Why does it have to be one over the other? That is ridiculous... They both deserve rights, and just because 22,000 children are dying doesn't mean that other lives should be ended. That is illogical. Completely illogical. Let's do our best to save the lives of the starving children AND do our best to save the lives of developing babies.

Under the Pope, and the goals of the controlling Pro-Life legislators in the US, contraception should be outlawed. Sensuality should be the law dictating existance.

Outlawing contraception is ridiculous... I certainly don't want another child. Don't stick to the fallicious argument that just because the radicals say and do stuff, that all pro-lifers agree.

 

[Gladiator]

Outlawing contraception is ridiculous... I certainly don't want another child. Don't stick to the fallicious argument that just because the radicals say and do stuff, that all pro-lifers agree.

Most people who vote pro-life do not realize that the Pro-Life leasdership is Anti-Contraceptive, and the whole Abstinenance Only education funding was a diversion of money from contraceptives for poor people of the world.



//

 

[SheWolf]

And that is idiotic...



There is no difference...



One is a first term abortion and the other is murder...



No... they are completely different...



Them...?



Does that help...?

In the end, you have yet to address this:

your argument ... calls for ... society to swallow this huge "lack of reality" pill. Pregnancy is unique. To make analogous parallels between a zef and a fully developed human is illogical at best

Pregnancy is unique.. I agree. But human rights are not unique, so when you or anybody else argues that zef are being denied human rights for not having the authority over somebody else's body, you are, in fact, the one misconstruing reality

 

[Wake]

To think if your existence was not made possible because of abortion. Go ahead. Think it through.

 

[MKULTRABOY]

To think if your existence was not made possible because of abortion. Go ahead. Think it through.

That my existence was made possible by abortion...

If you're issuing some sort-of counter argument to yourself... The argument is still pretty strong.