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Does anyone think to consider the rights of the Abortionee?

Wake

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We speak of rights and entitlements. Why do we not consider the entitlement to life of the unborn?
 

Korimyr the Rat

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Why do you assume it has any entitlement to life?
 

Paschendale

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Depends on which "unborn" you're talking about. A zygote with eight cells is clearly not a person. A fetus that could survive with medical aid were it to be birthed prematurely probably is. A born person obviously is. A person without a heartbeat is dead, so a fetus cannot possibly count as a living person until it has a heartbeat. A living person has rights. A clump of cells that is not yet a living person has the same rights as a tumor.

Be more specific and don't just speak in generalizations.
 
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Wake

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I am not of the belief that a fetus is nothing more than a clump of cells. Nor do I value an animal above an unborn human. One should place more value on the sacredness of human life. The heart beats at 3 weeks. Even before, we know that it is becoming a human.
 
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MKULTRABOY

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I am not of the belief that a fetus is nothing more than a clump of cells. Nor do I value an animal above an unborn human. One should place more value on the sacredness of human life. The heart beats at 3 weeks. Even before, we know that it is becoming a human.
So your arguments are entirely irrational and faith based and your conceptualizations have no basis in reality.
 

Animus

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I am not of the belief that a fetus is nothing more than a clump of cells. Nor do I value an animal above an unborn human. One should place more value on the sacredness of human life. The heart beats at 3 weeks. Even before, we know that it is becoming a human.
Why not? Animals provide more value than human beings. Animals feel pain and have a heartbeat. Why should they be given less rights?
 

Korimyr the Rat

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For the same reason you can assume a person has any other right.
Why do you assume an unborn child is a person?

One should place more value on the sacredness of human life. The heart beats at 3 weeks. Even before, we know that it is becoming a human.
There are plenty of circumstances under which it is legitimate, or even praiseworthy, to kill other human beings. Why is this any different?

And it is interesting that you note that the fetus is "becoming a human"-- as if, at that point in its development, it were something else.
 

majora$$hole

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Depends on which "unborn" you're talking about. A zygote with eight cells is clearly not a person. A fetus that could survive with medical aid were it to be birthed prematurely probably is. A born person obviously is. A person without a heartbeat is dead, so a fetus cannot possibly count as a living person until it has a heartbeat. A living person has rights. A clump of cells that is not yet a living person has the same rights as a tumor.

Be more specific and don't just speak in generalizations.
i basicly agree with you but you are wrong on when a pperson is considered dead (at least in 48 states) it isn't "heartbeat" it's "brain death" according to the law anyways. so imo you should consider that in your arguement and apply that condition to when you think someone is alive according to the law and you will come to the conclusion that it is "brain life" when life starts. that way they are MORE in line with one another imo.
 

majora$$hole

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Why not? Animals provide more value than human beings. Animals feel pain and have a heartbeat. Why should they be given less rights?
because it is humans and not animals who decide the animals fate.
 

OscarB63

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Why do you assume it has any entitlement to life?
for that matter why do we assume that any of us have an entitlement to life? because the US constitution says so??? just because a handful of guys thought it was a good idea doesn't make it an absolute truth.

In the absence of a God or some higher power...there are no absolutes, everything is relative and based on the whims of the current society.
 

Korimyr the Rat

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In the absence of a God or some higher power...there are no absolutes, everything is relative and based on the whims of the current society.
In the presence of a higher power, everything is still just as relative-- it just depends on its whims instead of ours.
 

OscarB63

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In the presence of a higher power, everything is still just as relative-- it just depends on its whims instead of ours.
douche'... I mean touche'. though one could argue that in the face of a supreme higher power, from our veiwpoint his/her/its whims are absolute.
 

digsbe

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Is the zef a human? Yes. Does it deserve human rights? This is what the debate is about. I do believe that human life in all stages is worthy of human rights and the right to life. We have committed many atrocities by rationalizing why it is ok to deny certain groups human rights. One example would be enslaving Africans and not giving them full citizenship and denying them their human rights because they were genetically different. I believe the same atrocity is committed in rationalizing why we should deprive unborn humans of their human rights, including their right to life.
 

OscarB63

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If that were the case, defiance would not be an option.
defiance is always an option, as long as you are prepared to face the consequences.

god sez, do this/don't do that or else... as long as you are willing to face "or else" you can do whatever you like.
 

mac

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Why do you assume an unborn child is a person?
Because it is born of people, and barring some unfortunate and statistically unlikely event, is progressing through it's stages of life just like the rest of us.
 

mac

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Animals are more sentient. What rights would you give them?
At a different stage of life perhaps. Keep it in context, at the same stage of life they are no more sentient.
 

MKULTRABOY

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But at certain stages physiologically the fetus has more in common with a fish or a small mammal. It isnt even sentient for a great deal of time.
 

mac

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Same stage in life as what?
Whatever stage you're comparing. To say an animal is more sentient than a human fetus is irrelevant. A Kangaroo fetus is no more sentient than a human fetus.
 
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