Does anyone here work?

[Jerry]

there is no higher calling, no more important job than a stay at home home mom

the rest of you are nothing but part time, when it is convenient, losers who should not have had offspring because the timing was inconveninent
the reason the world is currently so ****ed up, is because so few women are stay at home moms
Stay at home moms are the most crucial, most important, most critical parts of sociiety
any body else is worthless useless scum

Is it just my browser, or did Felicity "thank" this post twice?

 

[Jerry]

Have you seen any of the episodes for Supernanny?

Not every woman can be a stay at home mother....bills have to be sometimes dont they?...I dont know how taking kids to a soccer games pays for bills....and I dont judge stay at home moms either however it all depends on the person...some have the possibility and financial stability to stay home...others dont. It's really that simple.

I don't wana hear a god-dam thing about bills!
I'm 32,000 below the poverty line, we live pay check to pay check working my job and going to collage, I'm 28 and I've just now been able to afford a car for the first time in my life (thanks to Bush’s “tax cuts for the rich”…don’t me started on that though….)

Priorities:
Children come 1st, wide screen tvs, multiple cars and fancy homes in the suburbs take a close 5th.

I watch Supernanny all the time (my wife's favorite show) and I can tell you that those people have plenty of *things* they can sacrifice so that they can afford to stay home with their kids.

...wont hear a god-dam thing about "bills"....you be talkin to da wrooooonng person 'bout dat....

 

[Hatuey]

I don't wana hear a god-dam thing about bills!
I'm 32,000 below the poverty line, we live pay check to pay check working my job and going to collage, I'm 28 and I've just now been able to afford a car for the first time in my life (thanks to Bush’s “tax cuts for the rich”…don’t me started on that though….)

OK OK my turn. I'm 20 turning 21 in April, I use to sell weed/crack in Compton, got caught, did a bid in juvi. While in juvi I read book that changed my life. I got out I went back to school, got my highschool diploma(all before the age of 18) while teaching myself to use graphic design programs(Photoshop, Illustrator, Terragen, Apophys) I started a small home based business with my best friend designing posters for local music acts. I was basically living off whatever I got per job(I was charging $200-$250 per design back then) but I only had a client every ,2-3 weeks. I know how shitty it feels to go to the bank and not have a dime to your name. Thank whoever is upstairs that I have a good woman by my side or I would still be in that type of situation. She loaned me some money to help my business grow. It managed to grow and since then I've been able to live an extremely confortable life(not counting my health problems of course). I got lucky I guess but what does your life story have to do with stay at home moms anymore then mine does?

Priorities:
Children come 1st, wide screen tvs, multiple cars and fancy homes in the suburbs take a close 5th.

Of course children come first however I dont judge a woman who takes her kids to a daycare then goes to works so she provide for her kids anymore then I judge a woman who decides to stay home and take care of her kids.

I watch Supernanny all the time (my wife's favorite show) and I can tell you that those people have plenty of *things* they can sacrifice so that they can afford to stay home with their kids.

Thats not the point. On that show there are all types of family. They all have problems raising their kids.

...wont hear a god-dam thing about "bills"....you be talkin to da wrooooonng person 'bout dat....

I still know how shitty it feels to be on a check by check basis or even a cash basis. It feels shitty when you gotta count every single dollar because you're afraid you wont have enough to pay your rent.

Jerry my point was that not everybody is able to stay home with their kids. Some people dont have that possibility.

 

[dragonslayer]

Is that what 1069 is doing in your opinion? Just baiting neo conservatives cause last time I checked Stace was the liberal princess.

I am sorry but I reread my opinion, and cannot find 1069 anywhere. what are you talking about?

Dragonslayer

 

[FallingPianos]

And see, comments like that are why moms with real jobs both ridicule and pity people like you.
If you truly feel that crappy about yourself, do something to change your life, instead of making it everybody else's problem. :roll:

not speaking from experience, but my opinion is that being a stay-at-home mother is a job just as worth - or more worthy and respectable as any paying job. I realise that not all families have the financial resources that allow one parent to stay at home, but those that do and choose to use them should be commended for their dedication to raising their children.

 

[The Mark]

I enter this argument late.

However, here is my perspective.

I was raised by a SAHM, and home schooled by both my mother and father.

In my personal opinion, those 2 facts are the reason for ~60+% of my current ethics/personality/etc.

In short, they played a very large part in making me who I am.

It is also my personal opinion that, had I gone to public school, I would have problems as a result.

 

[Felicity]

Is it just my browser, or did Felicity "thank" this post twice?

I've got some weird gratitude problem--sometimes I give a double--every time it says "you have already thanked this post." (sorry, Jer, you only got one--it's the "luck o' the draw!") I started a thread on it in "feedback" and Vauge has no idea why. Aren't I special?:mrgreen:

 

[Cremaster77]

This thread is really sad. The truth is that no matter what you do, whether you stay at home or work, the vast majority of kids turn out okay. To see people actively belittle others for their choices of working or staying at home as if their personal choice was so vastly superior to others is frankly pathetic.

 

[DeeJayH]

I enter this argument late.

However, here is my perspective.

I was raised by a SAHM, and home schooled by both my mother and father.

In my personal opinion, those 2 facts are the reason for ~60+% of my current ethics/personality/etc.

In short, they played a very large part in making me who I am.

It is also my personal opinion that, had I gone to public school, I would have problems as a result.

most of the things I hated about my father made me strong
most of the things i saw as weakness in my mother made me good

 

[americanwoman]

As long as you are raising your kids right it shouldn't matter if you go to work or not.

I don't think everyone should be such harsh judges on someone's personal decision. I would love to stay at home with my kids but I know myself and my patience level. When I have kids I am going to have to work at least part time and stay at home part time. I think it's good for the mom to get out of the house at least 1 or 2 days a week and I think it's good for the kid(s) to get the social skills by being around someone else than constantly mommy -or daddy. That's my opinion and my choice and may not work for others, but that's all good.

I'm sorry but me as a person I would go crazy just being around kids 24/7. I know quite a few SAHM who are stressed out and beyond their point. I also know some who are in control and breeze thru it. As someone said already I think, what may be good for some is not always the best choice for others. Everyone knows what their personality is like and should make this choice best on what they think is best for the kids.

By the time you have a child, hopefully, you should be mature enough to make a decision based on what you know is best for not only your child but yourself. Stace has always presented herself to be an excellent mother and I think it's great she gets the opportunity to stay at home which obiviously is what she prefers and loves.

 

[talloulou]

People don't make statements like, "we both feel very strongly about being here for our son, versus essentially having someone else raise him" unless they have very serious personal issues... and we all, whether or not we choose to admit it, know that perfectly well.

What a bat $hit brained assertion.

Let me tell you something. I don't have to work outside the home. Money, for my family, isn't much of an issue.

So the very reason I choose to stay home was so that I was raising my kids vs. someone else.

Now I know and can understand how that statement might somehow insinuate that someone else is raising working moms kids. I can see how that statement might offend someone else's sensibilities. I might in good company refrain from making that statement so it didn't come off wrong but the truth of the matter is that statement is the number one reason that I decided to stay home. So I would be home. So I would be there. That doesn't mean I don't think a working mom can do a good job with her kids. It means that I wanted to be with my kids and that I wasn't going to send them off to strangers before they were even talking!

So the more you go into fem rabid attack mode the crazier you look because there is nothing wrong with Stace's statement and it's probably the very reason most moms choose to stay home.

If you're looking for serious personal issues find a fvcking mirror.

 

[Stace]

While I personally love your post, talloulou, as a moderator, I also have to tell you to play nice. :2wave:

What's really getting at me is that 1069 doesn't want to be judged. Said so herself here:

I've got no problem with SAHMs; everybody's free to do whatever they feel like, as long as it's logistically feasible.
But when they start judging me, there's a problem.

And yet, despite her supposedly not having a problem with us SAHMs, she obviously does have a problem....because she's sitting here in judgement of us. Rather hypocritical in my opinion.

I'd love to touch on some other points made in that post...but I'll do so in that thread, rather than hijack this one.

 

[Cremaster77]

It's clear that there will always be those people who find it necessary to attack and belittle the decisions of others in order to validate their own. Frankly, when people act this way, it says much more about the insecurity of those doing the attacking then it does about they people they attack.

 

[bub]

Let's come back to the subject!

I'm 18 and I'm a student (law & political sciences).
I live in a student room 60 miles far from my home, and since I don't earn anything, I try to spend as less (few?) as possible: I can survive a week with around 13€ (12€ on food and 1€ to the homeless in my street), and I can spare to make parties with friends :mrgreen:


As for education, the most important is to show as fast as possible to your kid where are the limits. You are the boss and he has to respect you. But let him free. Don't always stay with him. He has to be independent too. And always show that you are confident towards him and that he is smart.

So when he gets older he is not rude, is able to survive one week without his mum, and is self-confident enough to succeed on his own.

 

[Stace]

As for education, the most important is to show as fast as possible to your kid where are the limits. You are the boss and he has to respect you. But let him free. Don't always stay with him. He has to be independent too. And always show that you are confident towards him and that he is smart.

So when he gets older he is not rude, is able to survive one week without his mum, and is self-confident enough to succeed on his own.

Not sure if this was directed at me or not....but absolutely. I definitely know the importance of not being an overbearing parent. Within certain limits, my son's going to be free to do his own thing...I'm not going to force him to spend excessive amounts of time with us (though there WILL be plenty of family time), or even with other people....or doing things he doesn't like. My parents tried to do that to me, and it only made me resent them...and both of my parents worked!

But yeah, as he gets older, I want him to learn to be independent and self sufficient. Of course, he's always going to need his mom for some things...but I know that as he gets older, he'll need me less and less. Though, right now, he's still dependent on me for pretty much everything, seeing as how he's not quite six months old! :mrgreen:

 

[bub]

Not sure if this was directed at me or not

Its directed at everybody (I haven't read the previous posts, I just saw you talked about education)

I definitely know the importance of not being an overbearing parent. Within certain limits, my son's going to be free to do his own thing...I'm not going to force him to spend excessive amounts of time with us (though there WILL be plenty of family time), or even with other people....or doing things he doesn't like.

That's always difficult for a parent to see its kids getting older...but that's life! And don't worry, I see my parents only during the weekends but we do much more things and have much more conversations than when I was always with them!

 

[Jerry]

.....Oh NO you did NOT just go there!.....

I got lucky I guess but what does your life story have to do with stay at home moms anymore then mine does?

I've been married to a stay-at-home for 6 years and have 2 small children, we have made trimendus sacrifices for her to stay at home.

You?

Of course children come first however I dont judge a woman who takes her kids to a daycare then goes to works so she provide for her kids anymore then I judge a woman who decides to stay home and take care of her kids.

Oh I'll judge her asss:
Official: babies do best with mother | UK News | The Observer
Research: day care affects mother-child interactions
Steve Biddulph - Responses to Raising Babies

If you's gots a option, youz keeps yo azz home fo da baby!

Thats not the point.

You don't like it, don't bring it up.

I still know how shitty it feels to be on a check by check basis or even a cash basis. It feels shitty when you gotta count every single dollar because you're afraid you wont have enough to pay your rent.

Oooohohohooo moda-foka, you don even NO whos you be talking two....I have NEVER had a savings -NEVER-, so your poor, crys me a moda***in riva. You got a wife and kids to feed? 2 clothe? too stay up with when thys be sik? Less hear it!

Did you catch the part where I told you that I'm $32,000 below the poverty level? Do you know what that means? Do you have any god-dam idea?

Ever been homless? Less hear it! I ben homless 2'ce, I've been there, I know.

Jerry my point was that not everybody is able to stay home with their kids. Some people dont have that possibility.

• If that person owns a house, they can stay home with their kids.
• If there exists a cheeper residence in a reasonabley low-crime naibhorhood, they can stay home with their kids.
• If that person is married, they can stay home with their kids.
• If that person has liquidatable assets, that person can stay home with their kids.
• Etc, Etc,

We're arguing over the general rule, so if you want to pull out some story of some mom (must be a mom, proferably an uneducated minority mom for the emotional appeal...you could spice it up by making her an illegal imigrent to), who realy realy realy has absolutly no other choice then to put her kids in day care and work so that her kids have a roof over their head and food to eat, fine, I give you that exeption right now, because it is an exeption to the rule, NOT the rule, and the rule is that mom need to be at home when her kids are home (note the chosen wording there...I didn't say "a woman's place is in the home" or "women belong at home" or "women shouldn't work" or anything of the sort).

 

[Hatuey]

.....Oh NO you did NOT just go there!.....

Actually I did. Didnt you see?

I've been married to a stay-at-home for 6 years and have 2 small children, we have made trimendus sacrifices for her to stay at home.

You?

I've been married for a year and a few months but again what does that have to do with anything?

Here she is. Love of my life.

Oh I'll judge her asss:
Official: babies do best with mother | UK News | The Observer
Research: day care affects mother-child interactions
Steve Biddulph - Responses to Raising Babies

If you's gots a option, youz keeps yo azz home fo da baby!

IF YOU HAVE THE OPTION IN OTHER TERMS THE POSSIBILITY.

You don't like it, don't bring it up.

You missed the point. Not my fault.

Oooohohohooo moda-foka, you don even NO whos you be talking two....I have NEVER had a savings -NEVER-, so your poor, crys me a moda***in riva. You got a wife and kids to feed? 2 clothe? too stay up with when thys be sik? Less hear it!

Did you catch the part where I told you that I'm $32,000 below the poverty level? Do you know what that means? Do you have any god-dam idea?

Ever been homless? Less hear it! I ben homless 2'ce, I've been there, I know.

Wife and kids to feed? Yes. I have a wife as I told you before. A stepson and a daughter(atleats thats what the doctors tell me) on the way. Homeless? Depends on what you mean. Not having a roof over my head? Actually for a few months I was homeless. I didn't have a place to stay after I got out of juvi. I slept at a homeless shelter in Long Beach Cali for about 3 weeks and then managed to hook up with some family members that constantly reminded me that all I had to my name were a pair of pants my shoes 2 shirts and $6 funky *** dollars. I've come a long way since then as you can see.

If that person owns a house, they can stay home with their kids.

Wrong I own a house and the only reason I'm able to stay home is because I have the possibility of working from home. My bussiness doesn't require me to be on top of things 24/7 and my wife can pick up whatever slack there is. On the other hand my wifes brother and his wife own a house in the same neighbourhood we do and they can't afford for either one to stay home and take care of the kids because their jobs dont allow them to(He works at a factory and she works at restaurant). Factors like family income, jobs and the general health of the family's economy have to be taken into consideration.

If there exists a cheeper residence in a reasonabley low-crime naibhorhood, they can stay home with their kids.

What does a cheap residences in low crime neighbourhoods have to do with stay at home moms?

If that person is married, they can stay home with their kids.

Wrong. See my rebutal of your first point.

[*]If that person has liquidatable assets, that person can stay home with their kids.
[*]Etc, Etc,

LIKE I SAID. NOT ALL PEOPLE HAVE THAT POSSIBILITY. It's to easy to say "IF" this and "IF" that. However it all depends on the possibility and how lucky you are. Some people have to work to feed their kids. Others can rely on their partners to pick up the slack. Not everyone has this chance.

We're arguing over the general rule, so if you want to pull out some story of some mom (must be a mom, proferably an uneducated minority mom for the emotional appeal...you could spice it up by making her an illegal imigrent to), who realy realy realy has absolutly no other choice then to put her kids in day care and work so that her kids have a roof over their head and food to eat, fine,

You should write soap operas or as illegal aliens call them "novelas"

I give you that exeption right now, because it is an exeption to the rule, NOT the rule, and the rule is that mom need to be at home when her kids are home (note the chosen wording there...I didn't say "a woman's place is in the home" or "women belong at home" or "women shouldn't work" or anything of the sort).

What rule? That everybody has the option of staying home? Jerry. I thought you were a person worth debating but you just keep throwing the most illogical balls at me. Think your points through. You might not think I'm right but atleat I'm closer to reality then you are.

 

[DeeJayH]

On the other hand my wifes brother and his wife own a house in the same neighbourhood we do and they can't afford for either one to stay home and take care of the kids because their jobs dont allow them to(He works at a factory and she works at restaurant). Factors like family income, jobs and the general health of the family's economy have to be taken into consideration.

so how about the four of you work together to provide for a more stable hands on environment
with moms working part time jobs alternatively and sharing resources so all can be more involved in the childrens upbringing

oh, and congrats on picking up the pieces and getting back on your feet

 

[jallman]

oh, and congrats on picking up the pieces and getting back on your feet

I second that sentiment. :2wave:

 

[Hatuey]

so how about the four of you work together to provide for a more stable hands on environment
with moms working part time jobs alternatively and sharing resources so all can be more involved in the childrens upbringing

We have helped them. Their kids sleep over from friday to monday that way they dont pay for a day care center when they go to work. However not many people have family members reay to do even the bare minimum to help out.

 

[DeeJayH]

We have helped them. Their kids sleep over from friday to monday that way they dont pay for a day care center when they go to work. However not many people have family members reay to do even the bare minimum to help out.

really
cause 99% of all people i know have friends & family willing to help out
must be pretty shitty where you live

 

[Willow]

It would be nice if everyone in this country had the ability to take time off work and raise their children but unfortunately that's not reality. It would be nice if more families could help without making the situation worse or bickering but that's not reality either. It would be nice if there were decent affordable childcare and a decent pregannacy leave time for all employment but that's not a reality either. (It also would be nice if there were tonnes of decent affordable housing in low crime areas but that's not reality either:roll: )
What is real is that some pople have to work, some people choose to work some people have to stay home and some people choose to stay home, you can find dozens of studies to show that all of those are either good or bad depending on your point of view. No reason to tear eachother up. Especially us women, we are all women and we have all I'm sure been subjected to stereotypical thinking and backbiting and general nastiness. And every mother who stays at home, has days when they just want their kids to go to take a real long nap and every women that works has days of absolute guilt for leaving their kid. And all of us have that in the back of our mind whether we're at home or at work. It's more important for us to stand together and fight agaisnt stereotypical thinking that denegrates all women rather then to stand and point fingers and shout "My way is better!". All of us women here are intelligent and smart and have great debating skills, we dont' need to put eachother down or mock eachother. We're too smart for that. Let's leave that nonsense to the guys.:mrgreen:
Ok lecture of the day over..carry on...:2wave: :mrgreen:

 

[ptsdkid]

All of us women here are intelligent and smart and have great debating skills, we dont' need to put eachother down or mock eachother. We're too smart for that. Let's leave that nonsense to the guys.:mrgreen:
Ok lecture of the day over..carry on...:2wave: :mrgreen:

***I resemble those remarks. Nothing like getting in a fight with a scorned woman. Please carry on in the fashion that best suits the modern day woman. Don't worry about me; I'll be amusingly watching from a safe distance.

 

[doughgirl]

"I never said that; I said you don't have a job (actually, you said it).
If raising kids is a "job", then I guess the vast majority of women in the US have two jobs; being a mom, and then their real one.
Personally, being a mom has never felt like a "job" to me. It's just life. It's a state of being.
It might feel like a "job" to you right now because your kids are young, but thirty years from now, I doubt it'll still seem that way, even in retrospect. Or even ten years from now."

"REAL ONE"? Gosh you soud like Kerrys wife Theresa when she asked Laura Bush if she had ever had a REAL JOB.

Anyone can do a job, or try to anyway. But how well do they do that job? We are not talking here about a job that puts out a product, or service. We are talking about doing what is best for children, taking cae of them.

Most people put in long hours to do a good job at their workplace. Dont children deserve the same thing? If a person is putting in long hours at an outside job, what is left for the children when they get home? Somebody is going to lose out, either the kids at home, or the workplace.

Jobs need to be done when kids are involved.

Being a mother is not just a state of being. ITS A JOB. ITS AN IMPORTANT JOB. Its the most important job in the world to most people who want the best for their children. It a job with sacrifices and long hours.
You look down on it, because it comes with no paycheck.

"I mean, seriously... a job? You can do it while you're asleep; you can do it while you're watching tv; you can do it while you're working some other, paying job; you don't have to leave the house to do it; you can do it whilst on vacation in Tahiti, you can do it in your underwear, you can take a lunch (or cocktail) break any time you feel like it."

Then if it isn't a job.......why don't parents just leave their children at home when they ship out for the day? Yea just leave them at home, while your out doing whatever. You could use the telephone to tell them what to do. While your having your wonderful corporate lunch, think of them at home eating spagetti O;s. :roll: You can supervise your kids from work. No jobs to be done.

Are you saying all people with daycares don't provide a service? That theirs is not a job. You pay them to provide what you dont want to do. It still is a job.

A mother is a mother, where ever she is you're right. But someone has to do the "jobs" that come along with it. Obviously you pay yours out to the tune of 40 -50 hours a week as you so stated.....and the mother who stays at home does it without pay. You look down on her.........because Like I said, no paycheck.

Its a job. Its physical labor and mental too.


Taking care of kids is a hard job, ask any day care provider or parent who stays home all day and never gets a break. They need constant supervision and care. And some days you don't get an hour break like you do at some outside job. And when you stay home and take care of kids, it a sometimes is a 24 hour job, youre never off duty. And for some people they cant handle kids for that long.