Do you think she should be allowed back?

[ngdawg]

I knew I would get you to show your own prejudices, LOL, it took a few pages, but now you're not so Lilly white are you, here, here's your pointy hat, you need it more then I.

"figures you're a coach...you can't read...." So it's perfectly o.k to label coaches, as illiterate, incompetents, but you had better lay off the 71 year old trannies, because damnit, they are people too!:rofl

Jst as it's ok to label mothers as PTA attending cookie bakers?? And make comments about the looks of someone?? You're a joke....My own prejudices are only against stupid people who show their ignorances by attacking appearance and gender. ANd yea, they ARE people...with obviously a lot more going for them than some jock who thinks looks are a prerequisite (look it up) to skill.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Yes, male circumcision is the basis of mental disorder. :roll:

I can wait til you have proof of this "obvious" claim. The question remains, can you prove your it?

So now you're comparing circumsition to a sex change operation? Gimme a freaking break, talk about your false analogies.

 

[Alex]

They do? Should I download Debbie Does Dallas for my three year-old girl? Which do you think I should show my six year old, Suzy and Her Barnyard Friends, or The Texas Chainsaw Massacre?

I don't want my kids to grow up to be "more tolerant". I want my kids to grow up without significant neuroses. One of the things needed to ensure that is to control their exposure to stimuli that may harm them. Mr. McBeth turning into Lady McBeth is not something a small child should have to confront.

Yes, it's the parents' decision, not the school board's. That school board should be facing a boycott, with subsequent loss of state education dollars, until Mr. McBeth was let go.

No one is saying you should show your children anything. That is opening a whole new debate.

If your child is exposed to something, then explain it it them. So if your child were exposed to porn or any other example you can come up with, then answer any querstions they have about. Do not expect people to stop doing their own thing just because you hav e children. They are your kids, you deal with them and let everyone else live their life.

 

[Alex]

They get surgery to let them live in a fantasy world where they can pretend they're the opposite sex. What more proof is needed? If they were balanced there wouldn't be any question about surgical sexual mutilation, now would there?

Actually, the operation would make them a more whole and fulfilling person. That in turn would make them a happier person and better around people, including children.

 

[shuamort]

So now you're comparing circumsition to a sex change operation? Gimme a freaking break, talk about your false analogies.

Is a circumcision not having part of the genitalia cut off?
Of course it is. Just like a SRS (sexual reassignment surgery), the whole penis isn't cut off and discarded, ya know. A little education on the subject would dispel that myth:

(TMI FOR SOME)

Contrary to popular belief, the penis is not amputated during SRS. Rather, the internal penile tissue is mostly removed, but the outer skin is left attached, inverted and inserted into the body inside out as the new vagina. The testicles are removed, but the scrotal tissue is also left attached and used to fashion the vaginal lips or labia through standard plastic surgery procedures.

Here is how it happens. Once the patient has been prepped, sedated, wheeled into the operating room and anesthetized, the doctor slits the skin of the penis lengthwise from the head or glans down to the base on the underside. The skin is then peeled away from around the penis, but since the slit only opened the penis, the base of the skin is still attached.

The penile skin is then turned inside out, much like one might turn a sock inside out. When this is done, the slit is stitched back together, creating an inverted penis, which will ultimately form the new vagina.

Before this occurs, a rather miraculous, yet simple procedure is performed. Earlier, when the internal penile tissue was removed, a small stub of tissue was left behind, still attached. This is erectile tissue, which becomes stiff when stimulated, and also carries sexual sensation.

A tiny slit, perhaps a half-inch in length, is made in the new, inverted penis near the base where it is still attached. The stub of erectile tissue is pushed through the slit, forming the equivalent of a clitoris, and providing the opportunity for complete orgasm and sexual satisfaction after surgery. In addition, a second tiny slit is made below the one for the clitoris. The urinary tube is rerouted to this second slit to create a typical female urinary opening.

Once this procedure has been accomplished, the skin and muscles of the lower abdomen are lifted up with surgical instruments, providing a gap near the pelvic bone. The inverted penis is pushed into the gap, still attached at the base, so that it hinges down and into the proper location for a vagina.

To allow for proper vaginal contractions later, some of the abdominal muscles are repositions around to new vagina so that they can squeeze in on it, both by conscious control and also automatically during orgasm.

The new vagina is filled with surgical gauze to maintain shape, and then anchored in place with a thin surgical wire which enters the abdomen from the outside, runs under the pelvic bone, through the new vagina, back up around the pelvic bone and out the abdomen again. Once the vagina has healed in place, which takes approximately seven days, the wire is removed by the surgeon, who simply slips it out.

 

[Alex]

Hay and while we're at it let's hire pedophiles and rapists to come and teach our kids. You can't honestly think it's a good idea to put young impressionable kids in such an unhealthy environment do you? I mean it's obvious that he/she has serious mental problems.

Pedophiles and rapists impose physical harm that is not consented to by the individual. Big difference. Putting these in the same category as a transexual person shows the reader that the writer has a narrow mind that cannot think rationally.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I was thinking the same thing. Being a Libertarian in name does not necessarily mean Libertarian in practice.

Umm libertarians are for anything that only hurts the person doing it ie drug use, however, this is not the same situation, not only is having a transexual teaching our kids not condusive to learning but also simply isn't a healthy environment for young children, this person has a serious mental disorder. This guy/girl can do whatever the hell he/she wants as long as it doesn't have a negative impact on our kids. The classroom is not the proper place to conduct a social experiment buddy.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Pedophiles and rapists impose physical harm that is not consented to by the individual. Big difference. Putting these in the same category as a transexual person shows the reader that the writer has a narrow mind that cannot think rationally.

LMFAO, a narrow mind? Why is it not in the same category all three are perverse sexual disorders and none of them have any bussiness being in the classroom. Now I don't really give a sh!t what this person does just keep it the hell away from impressionable young kids, the classroom is not the place to conduct a freaking social experiment.

 

[Kandahar]

Umm libertarians are for anything that only hurts the person doing it ie drug use, however, this is not the same situation, not only is having a transexual teaching our kids not condusive to learning but also simply isn't a healthy environment for young children, this person has a serious mental disorder. This guy/girl can do whatever the hell he/she wants as long as it doesn't have a negative impact on our kids. The classroom is not the proper place to conduct a social experiment buddy.

You're no libertarian, you're a mainstream Republican moralist.

What negative impact do you imagine that this will have on kids? Will they all suddenly want to get sex change operations? Will they turn away from Jesus because this teacher corrupted them? Will they form prejudiced opinions toward anyone who feels comfortable in the gender he/she was born in? Please, I'm dying to know what these negative effects are.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Is a circumcision not having part of the genitalia cut off?
Of course it is. Just like a SRS (sexual reassignment surgery), the whole penis isn't cut off and discarded, ya know. A little education on the subject would dispel that myth:

(TMI FOR SOME)

Umm, I'm not talking about the Penis here it's the testicles buddy, ever have your dog neutered? It changes their entire personality, who knows what kind of psychological damage that would do to a person who is obviously unstable in the first place.

 

[Alex]

Umm libertarians are for anything that only hurts the person doing it ie drug use, however, this is not the same situation, not only is having a transexual teaching our kids not condusive to learning but also simply isn't a healthy environment for young children, this person has a serious mental disorder. This guy/girl can do whatever the hell he/she wants as long as it doesn't have a negative impact on our kids. The classroom is not the proper place to conduct a social experiment buddy.

What makes you the expert on this issue enough to call it a "mental disorder'? Without proof of your claim, it is nothing but an opinion.

I'll will repeat my first point: Kids do not judge people regardless of what they do. This is something that they learn in adulthood. They are more curious than concerned. It is the adults that have the problem and they are abusing their status as parents to deal with their personal issues. If a parent has a problem with something that their children are exposed to, remove the child from it. If a parent has a problem with something, then it is the parent's problem, no one else.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

You're no libertarian, you're a mainstream Republican moralist.

What negative impact do you imagine that this will have on kids? Will they all suddenly want to get sex change operations? Will they turn away from Jesus because this teacher corrupted them? Will they form prejudiced opinions toward anyone who feels comfortable in the gender he/she was born in? Please, I'm dying to know what these negative effects are.

Are you honestly suggesting that having a transexual teacher wouldn't mess with little kids minds? The classroom is no place for a social experiment. It's not about morals it's about having people with bizarre sexual disorders teaching young children.

 

[shuamort]

Umm, I'm not talking about the Penis here it's the testicles buddy, ever have your dog neutered?

Doesn't seem to affect much here except for making a male infertile or impotent:

If both testicles are removed, the man becomes infertile (unable to have children) because no sperm cells will be produced. If surgery is done to remove lymph nodes, there can be damage to nerves that control ejaculation. This can also cause infertility as well as impotence. There is a newer type of surgery that has a better chance of preserving the nerves that maintain erection while still removing the lymph nodes.

It changes their entire personality, who knows what kind of psychological damage that would do to a person who is obviously disturbed in the first place.

Wow, TOT. I'm a bit disappointed in the fact that you don't want to debate here.

I've tried. I've asked. I've politely nudged the fact that you don't have the proof to support your "obvious claim", yet still you choose to continue on the tirade. And now you're making further spurious and dubious claims without back-up.

 

[Axismaster]

Are you honestly suggesting that having a transexual teacher wouldn't mess with little kids minds? The classroom is no place for a social experiment. It's not about morals it's about having people with bizarre sexual disorders teaching young children.

You should leave the libertarian usergroup and join the constitutionalists like I did. It is things like that that made me sick of libertarianism, I think these things draw the line.

 

[Kandahar]

Are you honestly suggesting that having a transexual teacher wouldn't mess with little kids minds?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. How about you offer some evidence to back up your claim?

The classroom is no place for a social experiment. It's not about morals it's about having people with bizarre sexual disorders teaching young children.

Well it's unusual, but it's not dangerous to the kids. Why should some mental problems (depression/anxiety) be socially acceptable but others aren't? Do you think that a teacher who takes a couple Xanax before class is a menace to her students? How is this any different?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

What makes you the expert on this issue enough to call it a "mental disorder'? Without proof of your claim, it is nothing but an opinion.

I'll will repeat my first point: Kids do not judge people regardless of what they do. This is something that they learn in adulthood. They are more curious than concerned. It is the adults that have the problem and they are abusing their status as parents to deal with their personal issues. If a parent has a problem with something that their children are exposed to, remove the child from it. If a parent has a problem with something, then it is the parent's problem, no one else.

Your first point is simply ridiculous, kids judge people all of the time, that's what they do.

As for it not being a disorder the DSM would disagree with you:

Diagnostic Criteria for Gender Identity Disorder

A. A strong persistent cross-gender identification (not merely a desire for any perceived cultural advantages of being the other sex). In children, the disturbance is manifested by four (or more) of the following:
Repeatedly stated desire to be, or insistence that he or she is, the other sex.
In boys, preference for cross-dressing or simulating female attire; In girls, insistence on wearing only stereotypical masculine clothing.
Strong and persistent preferences for cross-sex roles in make believe play or persistent fantasies of being the other sex.
Intense desire to participate in the stereotypical games and pastimes of the other sex.
Strong preference for playmates of the other sex.
In adolescents and adults, the disturbance is manifested by symptoms such as a stated desire to be the other sex, frequent passing as the other sex, desire to live or be treated as the other sex, or the conviction that he or she has the typical feelings and reactions of the other sex.

B. Persistent discomfort with his or her sex or sense of inappropriateness in the gender role of that sex.
In children, the disturbance is manifested by any of the following:
In boys, assertion that his penis or testes are disgusting or will disappear or assertion that it would be better not to have a penis, or aversion toward rough-and-tumble play and rejection of male stereotypical toys, games, and activities.
In girls, rejection of urinating in a sitting position, assertion that she has or will grow a penis, or assertion that she does not want to grow breasts or menstruate, or marked aversion toward normative feminine clothing.

In adolescents and adults, the disturbance is manifested by symptoms such as preoccupation with getting rid of primary and secondary sex characteristics (e.g., request for hormones, surgery, or other procedures to physically alter sexual characteristics to simulate the other sex) or belief that he or she was born the wrong sex.

C. The disturbance is not concurrent with physical intersex condition.
D. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

http://www.mhsanctuary.com/gender/dsm.htm

I said it once and I'll say it again having a teacher with a very extreme sexual disorder is not an environment condusive to learning, nor is it a healthy environment for children to be exposed to. The classroom is not the place for a social experiment and children should not have to be yanked out of their classroom and schools because some teacher wants to get a sex change.

 

[Deegan]

Doesn't seem to affect much here except for making a male infertile or impotent:

If both testicles are removed, the man becomes infertile (unable to have children) because no sperm cells will be produced. If surgery is done to remove lymph nodes, there can be damage to nerves that control ejaculation. This can also cause infertility as well as impotence. There is a newer type of surgery that has a better chance of preserving the nerves that maintain erection while still removing the lymph nodes.


Wow, TOT. I'm a bit disappointed in the fact that you don't want to debate here.

I've tried. I've asked. I've politely nudged the fact that you don't have the proof to support your "obvious claim", yet still you choose to continue on the tirade. And now you're making further spurious and dubious claims without back-up.

And you are obviously hiding behind the fact that this is still too new to have any hard evidence, either way. As I said, an elementary school is not the place for these experiments, and anyone who thinks this is o.k, is irrational, and irresponsible. Responsible people seek hard data before exposing young children to this very recent development, transgender is hardly being gay, or even being a cross dresser, it's something we have yet to fully understand. It is also unfair to the stundents to accept this person as a man, and now be forced to correct themselves everytime they come in contact with this person. No one here has thought about the children, only about political correctness, well that is a two way street.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. How about you offer some evidence to back up your claim?



Well it's unusual, but it's not dangerous to the kids. Why should some mental problems (depression/anxiety) be socially acceptable but others aren't? Do you think that a teacher who takes a couple Xanax before class is a menace to her students? How is this any different?

It's not about socially acceptable it's about a healthy stable environment condusive to learning. Having a person with a bizarre sexual disorder teaching our kids will create an unhealthy environment, this person can do whatever the hell he/she wants just so long as they keep it the hell away from young kids.

 

[Alex]

Your first point is simply ridiculous, kids judge people all of the time, that's what they do.

As for it not being a disorder the DSM would disagree with you:





I said it once and I'll say it again having a teacher with a very extreme sexual disorder is not a condusive learning environment for learning, nor is it a healthy environment for children to be exposed to. The classroom is not the place for a social experiment and children should not have to be yanked out of their classroom and schools because some teacher wants to get a sex change.

Where in here does it say it is a negative thing?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Doesn't seem to affect much here except for making a male infertile or impotent:

If both testicles are removed, the man becomes infertile (unable to have children) because no sperm cells will be produced. If surgery is done to remove lymph nodes, there can be damage to nerves that control ejaculation. This can also cause infertility as well as impotence. There is a newer type of surgery that has a better chance of preserving the nerves that maintain erection while still removing the lymph nodes.


Wow, TOT. I'm a bit disappointed in the fact that you don't want to debate here.

I've tried. I've asked. I've politely nudged the fact that you don't have the proof to support your "obvious claim", yet still you choose to continue on the tirade. And now you're making further spurious and dubious claims without back-up.

I've said it once I'll say it again, it doesn't take a psychiatrists degree to tell that someone who wants to cut of their own testicles and penis has a very serious mental disorder.

 

[Alex]

Are you honestly suggesting that having a transexual teacher wouldn't mess with little kids minds? The classroom is no place for a social experiment. It's not about morals it's about having people with bizarre sexual disorders teaching young children.

No, it does not mess with little kids minds. It obviously messes with some adult's minds. They are the ones that need to be kept away from it.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

No, it does not mess with little kids minds. It obviously messes with some adult's minds. They are the ones that need to be kept away from it.

Are you kidding me, imagine you're in kindergarten you have a male teacher one day and then all of a sudden the same teacher comes back dressed in womans clothing, you're going to honestly sit here and tell me that this wouldn't mess with your mind?

The classroom is not a social experiment.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Where in here does it say it is a negative thing?

Right here:

D. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

 

[shuamort]

And you are obviously hiding behind the fact that this is still too new to have any hard evidence, either way.

I'm not hiding behind anything. I'm not the one arguing the case with certainty as has been done in this thread without substantiated proof.

As I said, an elementary school is not the place for these experiments, and anyone who thinks this is o.k, is irrational, and irresponsible.

A bit of judgment there.

Responsible people seek hard data before exposing young children to this very recent development,

How do you define "very recent"?

transgender is hardly being gay, or even being a cross dresser, it's something we have yet to fully understand.

Just like every person in the world. I don't fully understand my sister and I grew up with her, still spend time with her, understand her genetic make-up is similar to mine, etc.

It is also unfair to the stundents to accept this person as a man, and now be forced to correct themselves everytime they come in contact with this person.

Well, since she's a second grade teacher, the only children having a problem with that would be the ones left behind. They might not have been that bright to begin with.

No one here has thought about the children,

I think it's been brought up numerous times.

only about political correctness.

What "political correctness"? Ignoratio elenchi.

I've said it once I'll say it again, it doesn't take a psychiatrists degree to tell that someone who wants to cut of their own testicles and penis has a very serious mental disorder.

I don't see any SRS self done here. Except in "Silence of the Lambs", but that was fictional.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I don't see any SRS self done here. Except in "Silence of the Lambs", but that was fictional.

It doesn't matter if the person does it themselves or has a dr. do it you still have to be mentally disturbed to want to do it at all.