Do You Support the DREAM Act?

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

jamesrage said:

Are you not basically saying screw it heres amnesty all you got to do is get a job or go to college to get it, two things illegals should not be doing in the first place?

Securing the border is only part of the solution. You have to discourage illegal immigration as well. You do not need amnesty or any other reward that allows illegals to jump ahead of the line of everybody else. You have crack down on the traitors who hire illegals by making them subject to the same laws any other criminal who profited from illegal actives would be subject to. Which is prison time, heavy fines, assets seizure and forfeiture. If an illegal is caught toss his or her ass in jail for six months plus additional time for other crimes and then deport their ass. Deny tax payer funded services such as tuition, driver's licenses, welfare,section 8 housing, food handlers permits, IDs and etc. Require that parents provide proof of residency and State issued ID or drivers license in order to enroll their children into school. Require that money wiring services, banks and check cashing places require their customers to show a valid state ID and proof of residency. Require police to verify the legal status of anyone they pull over for traffic offenses or some other form of legal contact. Require law enforcement verify the legal status those arrested. Require auto dealerships to verify that the individual buying,renting or leasing a car has valid state driver's license. Illegals who are caught should have their biometric data stored in a database and used to permanently deny entry into the US.

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Wow...no...not at all. You are first instituting border security in several measures, second instituting real measures to remove the incentive for illegals to come here (sweeten the pot...ensure illegals cant receive federal social services), and then addressing a real and existing problem in an effective manner by making the children of illegal immigrants actually work pretty hard and provide significant service to be a US citizen.

One of the problems I see with the current practice is that even if some states pass legislation, there will still be federal judges that strike down the legislation, there will always be politicians that will exploit the situation for votes and further perpetuate the problem, the illegals will simply move to different states or when they get desperate enough turn to other means. There is no incentive for them to juts go back to that ****hole. So. there HAS to be solutions and they HAVE to be real and workable.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

jamesrage said:

How would more illegal immigration help this country? A practical way of dealing with illegal immigration is to discourage illegal immigration which is follow Oklahoma and Arizona's example.

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It would help this country by putting more college educated people out there, and giving us more members in the military.

I disagree. There should be standards like passing a health screening, criminal back ground check, must be able to provide for him or herself, come here and stay here legally, know english or be in the process of learning english, must swear loyalty only to the US in other words no dual citizenship, not be affiliated with any terrorist or anti-American groups, and must accept and honor all our constitutional rights.

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I disagree with this. Except maybe the terrorist thing, but I subscribe to this thought to immigration.
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

jamesrage said:

I disagree. There should be standards like passing a health screening, criminal back ground check, must be able to provide for him or herself, come here and stay here legally, know english or be in the process of learning english, must swear loyalty only to the US in other words no dual citizenship, not be affiliated with any terrorist or anti-American groups, and must accept and honor all our constitutional rights.

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Uhmm, all of that would be part of getting into the military. So, after a few years, you would have a medically cleared, english speaking, American veteran and citizen vs an illegal immigrant with limited options. I don't get the opposition to this.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

mac said:

Uhmm, all of that would be part of getting into the military.

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If the dream act passes then the must come and stay here legally would be ignored.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

Your Star said:

It would help this country by putting more college educated people out there, and giving us more members in the military.

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You would still be increasing the number of illegals in this country with this incentive.

I disagree with this. Except maybe the terrorist thing, but I subscribe to this thought to immigration.
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

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I subscribe to the thought that we live in the greatest country in the world and I wish to keep it that way by enforcing standards.

What do you have against the following-

Pass health screening
Criminal back ground check,
Must be able to provide for him or herself,
Come here and stay here legally
Know english or be in the process of learning english
Must swear loyalty only to the US in other words no dual citizenship
Not be affiliated with any terrorist or anti-American groups,.
Accept and honor all our constitutional rights.

If you enter the country illegally, you should be forcibly removed.
Or jailed, then foricbly removed.

If your parent(s) entered the country illegally and then gave birth to you, you should not be granted citizenship and the lot of you should be forcibly removed.

If you are here illegally, you should not be greanted any of the priviliges held by those that are; this includes education and entitlement benefits.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

VanceMack said:

Wow...no...not at all. You are first instituting border security in several measures, second instituting real measures to remove the incentive for illegals to come here (sweeten the pot...ensure illegals cant receive federal social services), and then addressing a real and existing problem in an effective manner by making the children of illegal immigrants actually work pretty hard and provide significant service to be a US citizen.

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If they are here illegally then they need to go back their country and come in just like those who came in legally did. No exceptions. When they turn 18 they are no longer a unwilling accomplice.

One of the problems I see with the current practice is that even if some states pass legislation, there will still be federal judges that strike down the legislation,

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Not all of Oklahoma's HB1804 was not blocked, neither was Arizona's SB1070 and this was just some piss ant low level federal judges that struck down some of the provisions not the supreme court.

there will always be politicians that will exploit the situation for votes and further perpetuate the problem,

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This will never change. This is why these things must first be enacted on the state level.

the illegals will simply move to different states or when they get desperate enough turn to other means.

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I do not care if illegals move to another state.The more states follow Oklahoma and Arizona's example the more illegals sanctuary states will get and eventually those states will get sick and tired of having to deal with illegals. I can guarantee that California will get rid of its sanctuary stance when the huge vast majority of those 12-20 million plus illegals are living in California.

There is no incentive for them to juts go back to that ****hole.

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If we cracked down on employers and states follow Oklahoma and Arizona's lead then there would be plenty of incentive for them to go back to their **** hole country. Like no job in the US, no education for your kids, no driver's licenses or ID, no food handlers permits, no business permits, no welfare,no food stamps, no section 8 housing, no automobile, not being able to cash a check and many other things would be plenty of incentives for them to go back home. Plus most of their family are in thier countries. Require a 6 month jail sentence for those in the country illegally. Heck if the feds actually did their job instead of just token enforcement there would already be plenty of incentives for illegals to go back home.

So. there HAS to be solutions and they HAVE to be real and workable.

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What is real and workable about creating incentives for people to sneak into this country?

You can deny tax paper funded benefits and services to illegals.Require police to verify the legal status of those they arrest.Make it is a state crime to knowingly transport an illegal. Require employers that contract with the government to use the federal computer system to verify the eligibility of applicants. Oklahoma has done these things.

Goobieman said:

If you enter the country illegally, you should be forcibly removed.
Or jailed, then forcibly removed.

If your parent(s) entered the country illegally and then gave birth to you, you should not be granted citizenship and the lot of you should be forcibly removed.

If you are here illegally, you should not be granted any of the privileges held by those that are; this includes education and entitlement benefits.

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Oh... add to all of the above:
Your road to citizenship is now permanently blocked.

Goobieman said:

Oh... add to all of the above:
Your road to citizenship is now permanently blocked.

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This is what should happen to any illegal caught. No entry period, no visa of any kind.

Redress said:

What is the DREAM Act? | The Upshot Yahoo! News - Yahoo! News



Harry Reid is pushing this, and I am curious as to what your opinion on it is. I am going to split the question up into two parts, do you support it as described above, or would you support it if you had to go the military route, not the college route.

Poll options incoming, patients for my slow typing please.

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I would support it because it allows well-educated, young, and hardworking immigrants to become american citizens, which will in the end benefit us all. These are the exact type of people we should be looking for. Personally I would support the college option more than the military option.

Goobieman said:

Oh... add to all of the above:
Your road to citizenship is now permanently blocked.

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You really think people who have committed no crime and are only here because their parents brought them here when they were too young to make the choice on their own or who gave birth to them here should never be allowed to become citizens legally?

I'm not generally for amnesty, but that's being a little too harsh.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

Your Star said:

So? They are still in the military, or in college bettering themselves. If someone is willing to do this why wouldn't we want them in our country?

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Well, there are hundreds of millions of people who would like to become US citizens. We can't accommodate all of them. The fact that someone is seeking to better himself is not automatically enough to warrant the granting of citizenship.

Every day, we deny citizenship to foreigners who are seeking to come here legally and attend college. There's a pretty good argument that illegal immigrants shouldn't be allowed to skip the line.

molten_dragon said:

You really think people who have committed no crime and are only here because their parents brought them here when they were too young to make the choice on their own or who gave birth to them here should never be allowed to become citizens legally?

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I might make an exception for minors brought here by their parents - however, there'd be no exception for adults.
They would be, unquestionably, committing a crime.

I oppose the DREAM Act.
I think we must be leery of Acts attached to other Acts. This seems deceptive to me. We also do not need more legislation and more bureaucracy at the federal/national level. In these tough economic times we cannot afford this Act either. We need to end the welfare at the federal and state level and modify immigration law. If you want me to explain please ask.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

jamesrage said:

If they are here illegally then they need to go back their country and come in just like those who came in legally did. No exceptions. When they turn 18 they are no longer a unwilling accomplice.
Not all of Oklahoma's HB1804 was not blocked, neither was Arizona's SB1070 and this was just some piss ant low level federal judges that struck down some of the provisions not the supreme court.
This will never change. This is why these things must first be enacted on the state level.
I do not care if illegals move to another state.The more states follow Oklahoma and Arizona's example the more illegals sanctuary states will get and eventually those states will get sick and tired of having to deal with illegals. I can guarantee that California will get rid of its sanctuary stance when the huge vast majority of those 12-20 million plus illegals are living in California.
If we cracked down on employers and states follow Oklahoma and Arizona's lead then there would be plenty of incentive for them to go back to their **** hole country. Like no job in the US, no education for your kids, no driver's licenses or ID, no food handlers permits, no business permits, no welfare,no food stamps, no section 8 housing, no automobile, not being able to cash a check and many other things would be plenty of incentives for them to go back home. Plus most of their family are in thier countries. Require a 6 month jail sentence for those in the country illegally. Heck if the feds actually did their job instead of just token enforcement there would already be plenty of incentives for illegals to go back home.
What is real and workable about creating incentives for people to sneak into this country?
You can deny tax paper funded benefits and services to illegals.Require police to verify the legal status of those they arrest.Make it is a state crime to knowingly transport an illegal. Require employers that contract with the government to use the federal computer system to verify the eligibility of applicants. Oklahoma has done these things.

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Dial it down a little and work with me here. First...I agree with your post above(#55)...a desirable and realistic set of rules and guidelines and ones that SHOPULD have been enforced for decades. Complete agreement. Second, I have stated that I totally agree that before ANY 'fix' can be put into place there has to be several steps taken to first secure the borders, increase enforcement, and eliminate the incentive to come here illigally. Third...finally...there are anywhere between 20-30 million people here illegally. I simply do not believe that you will arrest all of those people and send them back. Its simply an unrealistic solution. The dream act or some version of incentive for the children of those that came here illegally would yes...absolutely...give those here illegally an unfortunate advantage. You can chalk that up to OUR refussal to find real and workable solutions for 40 years. WE contributed to the environment. I think its OK to accept that mistakes were made in enforcement of immigration laws, fix those mistakes, then deal with the problem...the byproduct of those mistakes.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

VanceMack said:

Third...finally...there are anywhere between 20-30 million people here illegally. I simply do not believe that you will arrest all of those people and send them back. Its simply an unrealistic solution. The dream act or some version of incentive for the children of those that came here illegally would yes...absolutely...give those here illegally an unfortunate advantage. You can chalk that up to OUR refussal to find real and workable solutions for 40 years. WE contributed to the environment. I think its OK to accept that mistakes were made in enforcement of immigration laws, fix those mistakes, then deal with the problem...the byproduct of those mistakes.

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Why do so many people insist that we either have to arrest every single one of them or none at all? Arrest the ones we can, work toward 100% enforcement and accept that we're probably not going to get them all. Perfection is not necessary, nor likely possible. Just do the best job we can.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

Cephus said:

Why do so many people insist that we either have to arrest every single one of them or none at all? Arrest the ones we can, work toward 100% enforcement and accept that we're probably not going to get them all. Perfection is not necessary, nor likely possible. Just do the best job we can.

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20-30 million people. let that sink in a bit.
We share some of the responsibility. We have spent 4 decades saying "follow the rules...but if you dont...well...shoot why not...come weed my garden or watch my chirruns. And dont worry about being caught...heck...worst case scenario we'll send you home for a weekend visit and you can be back by Monday...dont be late!" Often when finding difficult solutions there is what you should do and what you can do. Those things arent necessarily the same thing.

I think this is akin to wondering about how to jerk off while you ignore a sucking chest wound.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

Cephus said:

Why do so many people insist that we either have to arrest every single one of them or none at all? Arrest the ones we can, work toward 100% enforcement and accept that we're probably not going to get them all. Perfection is not necessary, nor likely possible. Just do the best job we can.

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Its part of the pro-illegal tactic to pretend they are against illegal immigration while at the same time saying its impossible to remove all these illegals. It makes it easy to push for amnesty if you pretend that the only other solution is a mass roundup.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

jamesrage said:

Its part of the pro-illegal tactic to pretend they are against illegal immigration while at the same time saying its impossible to remove all these illegals. It makes it easy to push for amnesty if you pretend that the only other solution is a mass roundup.

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amnesty is PRACTICAL.

I do not support amnesty as a general rule, I see no reason why we should reward criminal behavior with citizenship. HOwever, I think that exchanging citizenship for military service is a fair trade.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

jamesrage said:

Its part of the pro-illegal tactic to pretend they are against illegal immigration while at the same time saying its impossible to remove all these illegals. It makes it easy to push for amnesty if you pretend that the only other solution is a mass roundup.

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What about those of us that are ANTI-illegal but want to see a real solution as opposed to being a part of some other anti-illegal group of impotent raging ideologues gathered in a desperate limp circle jerk bound for no conclusion?

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

liblady said:

amnesty is PRACTICAL.

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There is nothing practical about making illegal immigration worse. Amnesty for illegals is like saying making bank robbery a misdemeanor is a practical solution to bank robber.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

liblady said:

amnesty is PRACTICAL.

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Amnesty is far from practical. What flipping a switch and turning 30 million immigrants into citizens do, do you think?

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

It's better than what we have now but I'd much rather see any illegal that is caught deported poste haste.