• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Do You Support the DREAM Act?

Do You Support DREAM?


  • Total voters
    37

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
106,917
Reaction score
50,837
Location
Georgia
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
What is the DREAM Act? | The Upshot Yahoo! News - Yahoo! News

The idea behind the bill is to give people who were under 16 when they entered the United States the opportunity to become legal residents. Those who have a GED or high school degree, have lived in the United States for at least five years, and are younger than 35 would be eligible for conditional legal status for six years. During that time, they would have to graduate from two years of college or honorably serve two or more years in the military. Then they would qualify for U.S. citizenship.

Participants would not be able to travel abroad for lengthy periods and would not qualify for federal Pell Grants to help pay for college. They also could not acquire criminal records.
Harry Reid is pushing this, and I am curious as to what your opinion on it is. I am going to split the question up into two parts, do you support it as described above, or would you support it if you had to go the military route, not the college route.

Poll options incoming, patients for my slow typing please.
 

digsbe

Truth will set you free
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
20,224
Reaction score
14,223
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I completely oppose it. It rewards illegal immigration and provides amnesty. I oppose it even for the military route. We shouldn't allow illegal foreign citizens from serving in our armed forces.
 

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
106,917
Reaction score
50,837
Location
Georgia
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
I completely oppose it. It rewards illegal immigration and provides amnesty. I oppose it even for the military route. We shouldn't allow illegal foreign citizens from serving in our armed forces.
Followup-this is for people who where brought to the country by their parents(presumably). You have to have come to the country under the age of 16. Do you think it is right to block people whose parents committed he criminal acts from having a path to legal residence(I think citizens)?
 

RightinNYC

Girthless
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
25,893
Reaction score
12,484
Location
New York, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
If the program were properly enforced and if it were an actual end rather than a stepping stone toward a broader proposal, I think it would be a good idea.

I do wonder about the incentives it creates, as well as about the implications of a program that essentially offers poor illegal immigrants the choice of joining the military or being deported.
 

RightinNYC

Girthless
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
25,893
Reaction score
12,484
Location
New York, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Followup-this is for people who where brought to the country by their parents(presumably). You have to have come to the country under the age of 16. Do you think it is right to block people whose parents committed he criminal acts from having a path to legal residence(I think citizens)?
I don't see a denial of citizenship as being as punitive as this makes it sound. The fact that those children may not have affirmatively chosen to become illegal immigrants does not automatically mean that they deserve to become citizens. If my parents sneaked across the border to Canada when I was 14, I wouldn't expect Canada to allow me to become a citizen simply because I was young when it happened.
 

digsbe

Truth will set you free
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
20,224
Reaction score
14,223
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Followup-this is for people who where brought to the country by their parents(presumably). You have to have come to the country under the age of 16. Do you think it is right to block people whose parents committed he criminal acts from having a path to legal residence(I think citizens)?
I think it would be wrong to not block it. I understand that the kids couldn't really controll their circumstances when it comes to crossing illegally via their parents. However, they still remained here as adults when they could have gone back to their native country. This is still criminal. Also, it seems unfair to legal residents in other countries that want citizenship here. Why is it fair for someone who breaks our laws to obtain citizenship through the army/college, yet a legal immigrant can't become a citizen? The prerequisite is committing a federal crime, which is not only unjust but also unfair.
 

VanceMack

MSG Benavides TAB
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
73,588
Reaction score
30,979
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
What is the DREAM Act? | The Upshot Yahoo! News - Yahoo! News
Harry Reid is pushing this, and I am curious as to what your opinion on it is. I am going to split the question up into two parts, do you support it as described above, or would you support it if you had to go the military route, not the college route.
Poll options incoming, patients for my slow typing please.
I absolutely OPPOSE this only because harry Reid is tying it to the defense spending bill. What a ****ing piece of **** he is.

The CONCEPT...I actually support. i know the arguments...it rewards illegal immigration...OK...I get that. But the reality is we have 20-30 million illegal immigrants here and no real solutions. This type of solution would do a few things...one...encourage them to come forward, two, address the problem in a realsitic manner, and three it would quite possibly create some very solid contributors to our country.

Perfect in and of itself? I dont know enough about the specific legislation to say...but some type of a solution along these lines is going to HAVE to be found.
 

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
106,917
Reaction score
50,837
Location
Georgia
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
I absolutely OPPOSE this only because harry Reid is tying it to the defense spending bill. What a ****ing piece of **** he is.

The CONCEPT...I actually support. i know the arguments...it rewards illegal immigration...OK...I get that. But the reality is we have 20-30 million illegal immigrants here and no real solutions. This type of solution would do a few things...one...encourage them to come forward, two, address the problem in a realsitic manner, and three it would quite possibly create some very solid contributors to our country.

Perfect in and of itself? I dont know enough about the specific legislation to say...but some type of a solution along these lines is going to HAVE to be found.
To be clear, I meant the concept, not adding it to the defense appropriations bill, which I agree is inappropriate.
 

jamesrage

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
34,420
Reaction score
16,256
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

I oppose it. The last thing an illegal should be able to do is freely walk into a government office without getting deported. Our government is supposed to be catching and deporting intruders, not letting them walk freely into government offices. I do not want some illegal joining the military with a POG(pronounced pōg. Acronym for Persons Other than Grunt. A non-infantry solder or non-infantry MOS marine. In other words civilians in soldiers clothing) MOS just to be able to jump ahead of the line in front of everyone else.
 
Last edited:

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
106,917
Reaction score
50,837
Location
Georgia
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

I oppose it. The last thing an illegal should be able to do is freely walk into a government office without getting deported. Our government is supposed to be catching and deporting intruders, not letting them walk freely into government offices. I do not want some illegal joining the military with a POG(pronounced pōg. Acronym for persons other than grunt, a non-infantry solder or non-infantry MOS marine. In other words civilians in soldiers clothing) MOS just to be able to jump ahead of the line in front of everyone else.
You have a really hilarious view of the military.

So you don't think service to a country you want to join should move you ahead of those who did not serve?
 

mac

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
22,499
Reaction score
4,266
Location
DC Metro
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
What is the DREAM Act? | The Upshot Yahoo! News - Yahoo! News



Harry Reid is pushing this, and I am curious as to what your opinion on it is. I am going to split the question up into two parts, do you support it as described above, or would you support it if you had to go the military route, not the college route.

Poll options incoming, patients for my slow typing please.
As it stands, non citizens can serve in our military and they receive a lot of benefits towards gaining citizenship not to mention all the other benefits serving garners. I've served with many such people and support it entirely.

The college route I think is a bit harder to manage as it's pretty easy to be a student without actually doing any real schooling. It would take much more oversight than the military route. But if not abused, I'd support this route too.
 

jamesrage

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
34,420
Reaction score
16,256
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

You have a really hilarious view of the military.

So you don't think service to a country you want to join should move you ahead of those who did not serve?
You think someone who sneak into this country and joins a pog mos should be allowed to jump ahead over those who did come here legally?
 

digsbe

Truth will set you free
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
20,224
Reaction score
14,223
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

You have a really hilarious view of the military.

So you don't think service to a country you want to join should move you ahead of those who did not serve?
I can't speak for James. But I think their first service to our country would be to respect our laws, be deported, and enter legally. Them breaking our laws and disrespecting legal immigrants is a disservice to our country.
 

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
106,917
Reaction score
50,837
Location
Georgia
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
As it stands, non citizens can serve in our military and they receive a lot of benefits towards gaining citizenship not to mention all the other benefits serving garners. I've served with many such people and support it entirely.
I was unaware of this, though I suppose since I served with a couple Filipinos I should have been aware of it. Do you know the details of it?
 

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
106,917
Reaction score
50,837
Location
Georgia
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

I can't speak for James. But I think their first service to our country would be to respect our laws, be deported, and enter legally. Them breaking our laws and disrespecting legal immigrants is a disservice to our country.
But think of this: parents bring you here when you are a kid, you reach 18. You do not want to leave the country, so you choose to serve the country. You yourself are not really a criminal, and now have a route to staying without breaking laws themselves.

Note I am not entirely sold on the concept myself. I am absolutely opposed to those who came here illegally on their own having a path to citizenship, but this seems somewhat of a different thing. It seems to be aimed at those brought here by there criminal parents.
 

VanceMack

MSG Benavides TAB
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
73,588
Reaction score
30,979
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

I oppose it. The last thing an illegal should be able to do is freely walk into a government office without getting deported. Our government is supposed to be catching and deporting intruders, not letting them walk freely into government offices. I do not want some illegal joining the military with a POG(pronounced pōg. Acronym for Persons Other than Grunt. A non-infantry solder or non-infantry MOS marine. In other words civilians in soldiers clothing) MOS just to be able to jump ahead of the line in front of everyone else.
Would it be more palatable if as a component of the enactment of SOME sort of a solution they first finished the wall, enhanced border security, joined forces with states like Arizona to oust illegals, created a national verification database, scrubbed social security numbers so that false or illegally obtained SSNs were eliminated and easily detected, fined employers for hiring illegal immigrants, THEN brought forward a more realistic solution to the illegal immigration problem? Because seriously...just kick em out is NOT going to EVER happen.
 

Psychoclown

Clown Prince of Politics
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
1,780
Reaction score
1,460
Location
Hiding from the voices in my head.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

I don't have a problem with the bill in theory. But I don't think now is the time to enact it. As long as the federal government refuses to take serious and necessary steps to combat the uncontrolled and unregulated flow of illegal immigrants, we shouldn't be adding incentives to illegally immigrate.
 

molten_dragon

Anti-Hypocrite
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,190
Reaction score
4,823
Location
Southeast Michigan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

I'm torn on this one.

Children brought here illegally by their parents aren't committing a crime. They had no choice in the matter, and were just along for the ride. Staying after they become of age is a crime, but by that point (for some at least), America is the only home they have ever known. I think 16 is too old though. You are almost an adult by that point. Lower the limit some (to maybe 12 or 13) and I'd be more okay with it, ASSUMING that it was actually enforced the way it's written.
 

Gipper

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
25,120
Reaction score
7,658
Location
Theoretical Physics Lab
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

I'm against it, as it sets a bad precedent. We're trying to end the anchor baby movement, and all this would do is enforce it. Guilt by association should mean something these days.
 

jamesrage

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
34,420
Reaction score
16,256
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

Because seriously...just kick em out is NOT going to EVER happen.
Just kick em out is not the only solution. There is entice them to deport themselves by enacting laws similar to those in Oklahoma and Arizaona. We can enact tougher fines and punishments for those who hire illegals like prison time, make assets seizure and forfeiture laws apply to those who hire illegals and enact a mandatory 6 month jail sentence for illegals who are caught. You never allow illegals to walk freely into a government office when the government is supposed to arresting and deporting illegals.
 

Cephus

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 15, 2007
Messages
31,034
Reaction score
11,932
Location
CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

I'm completely opposed to it. I don't care if they want to go home or not, they are here illegally, they shouldn't be given a choice. Anyone who wants to go back to their country of origin and then apply for legal immigration status is fine with me, more power to them. Until they are granted legal status however, they should not be here, period. I don't care what circumstances brought about their presence here, it's illegal, they need to go.
 

Camlon

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
2,854
Reaction score
567
Location
Oslo, Norway
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

What about having both college and military? Only 2 years college is way too little, so I clearly don't support as it is written.
 

samsmart

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 7, 2009
Messages
10,316
Reaction score
6,470
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
What is the DREAM Act? | The Upshot Yahoo! News - Yahoo! News



Harry Reid is pushing this, and I am curious as to what your opinion on it is. I am going to split the question up into two parts, do you support it as described above, or would you support it if you had to go the military route, not the college route.

Poll options incoming, patients for my slow typing please.
I would amend it.

1) You have serve in our military for at least 5 years without getting a dishonorable discharge.

2) After getting a college degree, you have to spend at least 5 years in the civil service.

3) I would grant 6 years of conditional status for those getting a college degree, then further extend that another 5 years for them to serve in the civil service.
 

mac

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
22,499
Reaction score
4,266
Location
DC Metro
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
I was unaware of this, though I suppose since I served with a couple Filipinos I should have been aware of it. Do you know the details of it?
Filipinos got the best deal, they pay no taxs whatsoever. I know many that retired as 3 year Master Chiefs then when back to Pi and lived like kings on their retirements.

Part of the SOFA agreement with many countries allows their citizens to join and earn breaks towards citizenship, such as waiver of fees, removal of some of the red tape, etc. Beyond AFN commercials I never had to look to deep into it since my specialty requires US citizenship and I've never had to pursue it for any of my sailors.

As I understand it this applies to anyone of the SOFA countries, most of the Americas, and any of our territories and protectorates. Samoa, PR, etc.
 
Top Bottom