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maybe...I have pride in my country, admittedly not as much as I had 10 yrs ago but I still do...I would be a very unhappy old fart if I couldnt feel pride for where i was born and raised....I feel for anyone that doesnt have pride in their country
Yeah, goodness knows, when I think of a good citizen, my mind goes right to drug addicted pimps. :mrgreen:
Don't be mad Kali, I just had to give you a little **** for that.
I'm not proud of my country. In fact, I find the whole idea of patriotism to be outdated...and really not all that different from odious concepts like "white pride." Why would you be proud of something you have no control over? I mean, it was only an accident of birth that you were born where you were, instead of in the backwaters of Uganda. If you're an immigrant to your country, I can understand being proud of that accomplishment, but I still don't understand "pride in one's country."
What is there to be proud of? Some imperfect men (who aren't me) who happened to exist within the arbitrarily-defined borders of my "country" did some stuff a long time ago that led to the foundation of this country, over which I am nominally a part? I guess I could understand that THEY would have pride in their own accomplishments...but why would *I* be proud of it? I wasn't the one who did it.
I think that patriotism - like white nationalism - tends to be used to justify all sorts of harmful behavior against anyone who isn't part of the "in-group." Sometimes it's pretty blatant xenophobia ("I don't want to press 1 for English") and sometimes it's more subtle ("they hate us for our freedom"), but the end result is typically the same: Stupid actions that harm others for no discernible reason.
Naw, one of the great things about this country is that people have the right to their opinions, and the right to express them.We are the United States of America and we could round up all you pride-less members getting in the way and put you in a boat over a cliff. There's nothing anybody could do about it. Nobody is so powerful.
Then we'd have nobody that wasn't proud of this wonderful country.
Naw, one of the great things about this country is that people have the right to their opinions, and the right to express them.
I'm not proud of my country. In fact, I find the whole idea of patriotism to be outdated...and really not all that different from odious concepts like "white pride." Why would you be proud of something you have no control over? I mean, it was only an accident of birth that you were born where you were, instead of in the backwaters of Uganda. If you're an immigrant to your country, I can understand being proud of that accomplishment, but I still don't understand "pride in one's country."
What is there to be proud of? Some imperfect men (who aren't me) who happened to exist within the arbitrarily-defined borders of my "country" did some stuff a long time ago that led to the foundation of this country, over which I am nominally a part? I guess I could understand that THEY would have pride in their own accomplishments...but why would *I* be proud of it? I wasn't the one who did it.
I think that patriotism - like white nationalism - tends to be used to justify all sorts of harmful behavior against anyone who isn't part of the "in-group." Sometimes it's pretty blatant xenophobia ("I don't want to press 1 for English") and sometimes it's more subtle ("they hate us for our freedom"), but the end result is typically the same: Stupid actions that harm others for no discernible reason.
Patriotism = racism. LOL. I guess I shoulda seen that one coming.
hmm...what's the difference between patriotism and nationalism? I think there is a distinction.
Patriotism is a slightly more subtle form of nationalism, but they're basically the same. They both encourage people to think in terms of us versus them. With patriotism, people think that it's not harmful because they're just expressing how wonderful their OWN country is...which is why I drew the "white pride" analogy. If people are proud of their own country, it's not such a big leap to think that they are better than other countries and that others are therefore inferior. That seems to be the rationale, however much it's cloaked in nice language, of the "American exceptionalism" crowd. Or let's not forget the fact that any politician who suggests we copy the successful policies of another country would be shouted down as an America-hater, and reprimanded by the opposition for thinking that America is anything other than #1 in (fill in the blank policy).
I see no reason to be any more proud of the accomplishments of John Adams than I am of the accomplishments of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. They were both imperfect men who did some good things. Yet I'm supposed to feel more pride in John Adams because he lived a few hundred miles from me, instead of a few thousand?
This is awesome, patriotism makes you a racist and it's better to empathize with anti-American terrorist organizations, cause, you know, they're the people that really do good things and I'm sure they show no racism, bigotry or "pride" in what they accomplish, granted that's usually scored in the terms of bodies. :roll:For example, it is often said/implied that to attempt to understand, or God forbid empathize, with members of anti-American terrorist organizations is "unpatriotic". With that label, the conversation is meant to end. It's meant to say, "By understanding and empathizing with those who killed Americans, you are a traitor of this country". It's an idea that is based in the juvenile assumption that one cannot understand and empathize with two different groups of people - that our understanding and empathy must be reserved only for "us" and never wasted upon "them". It's a dangerous assumption that has the capacity to turn an entire country into xenophobic people who are 1) unwilling to examine their nation's faults 2) unable to connect to people outside their own borders.
This is awesome, patriotism makes you a racist and it's better to empathize with anti-American terrorist organizations, cause, you know, they're the people that really do good things and I'm sure they show no racism or "pride" in what they accomplish, granted that's usually scored in the terms of bodies, :roll:
It inspires people to make arbitrary requirements of patriotism and to blindly censor their own thoughts and speech because they reject certain ideas that have been branded "unpatriotic". We've seen stuff like this on this board...It's an idea that is based in the juvenile assumption that one cannot understand and empathize with two different groups of people - that our understanding and empathy must be reserved only for "us" and never wasted upon "them".
You just proved my point impeccably and the best part is that you don't even know how unfortunate it is. Like I said:
I never said it was better - I said that it was possible to do both. I hope to God that you don't work in the government.
Patriotism is a slightly more subtle form of nationalism, but they're basically the same. They both encourage people to think in terms of us versus them. With patriotism, people think that it's not harmful because they're just expressing how wonderful their OWN country is...which is why I drew the "white pride" analogy. If people are proud of their own country, it's not such a big leap to think that they are better than other countries and that others are therefore inferior. That seems to be the rationale, however much it's cloaked in nice language, of the "American exceptionalism" crowd. Or let's not forget the fact that any politician who suggests we copy the successful policies of another country would be shouted down as an America-hater, and reprimanded by the opposition for thinking that America is anything other than #1 in (fill in the blank policy).
I see no reason to be any more proud of the accomplishments of John Adams than I am of the accomplishments of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. They were both imperfect men who did some good things. Yet I'm supposed to feel more pride in John Adams because he lived a few hundred miles from me, instead of a few thousand?
Given your diatribe against American patriotism, I just find it incredibly ironic that you're ok with the the same traits you bash us for exhibited in people who actually kill people just for not being like them.
This is awesome, patriotism makes you a racist and it's better to empathize with anti-American terrorist organizations, cause, you know, they're the people that really do good things and I'm sure they show no racism, bigotry or "pride" in what they accomplish, granted that's usually scored in the terms of bodies. :roll:
Given your diatribe against American patriotism, I just find it incredibly ironic that you're ok with the the same traits you bash us for exhibited in people who actually kill people just for not being like them.
The United States actually kills people for not being like them...and generally a lot more than any terrorist group does. And when they do, their actions are often cheered on by many members of this forum. Let's not pretend that your **** doesn't stink just because you happened to be born in this country.
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