Do you agree America has become largely enslaved to the right-wing media machine?

[Craig234]

When I think of the founding fathers, I think of people who put their trust in the people, to care about the good of the country, about justice, to have common sense. To self-rule better than they could be ruled.

The country they were in was as if from another planet compared to today. It was largely homogenous, 90% rural, made of people mostly with little education, with no powerful corporations, no 'propaganda machine' more sophisticated than a newspaper writer, no organized political machines. Just the equivalent of a small town without radio, the tv, or the internet.

What I'm seeing today is tens of millions of Americans who don't vote like Americans then would. Rather, I see them enthralled by propaganda, making them not care about rational policies, about morals, about 'the public good', but whipped into a frenzy listening to pundits - Hannity, Carlson, and many more - who use sophisticated advertising methods to turn them into a horde for Republican power.

When they vote, it's with years of daily mind control to hate Democrats and to get them to link Republicans with all the good words like 'liberty' and 'freedom', to make them emotionally feel like they are voting for saving the country from destruction, while they're actually voting pretty much for that destruction.

The worst the Republican party has to worry about is that their voters are unhappy with the Republican politicians also - and I see a lot of Republicans who say bad things about Republican politicians - but the propaganda machine leaves the voters where are still hugely convinced to vote against Democrats, who are far worse to them.

What we have now is a country with tens of millions of those people who are enthralled and led around by the nose to support the messages in the propaganda. It's a badly corrupted system where the policies don't get to the public to even much view them much less discuss them, but are carefully crafted behind closed doors to be passed, while the voters pull the lever with the stage show convincing them. This is not democracy, it's pretend democracy.

The very idea of the democracy the founders created where the politicians represent the voters is clearly silly now, as the Republican Party's actual agenda is written by corrupt and cynical officials who have an iron grip over the elected officials, as Congress spends half its time fundraising, and most go into lobbying for a payout for loyal service to donors when they leave office.

And in that situation, it's not surprising that voters feel democracy isn't useful to them - that 'winning' and having power is more important than democracy which risks the enemy winning, and the propaganda has them feeling like they are winning if the Republican Party does, even though they're mostly not except for some pandering. So the phrase 'end of democracy to seize power' doesn't have reason to sound very scary to them. It's them getting power, they think.

Their lack of support for democracy can be seen increased when you consider their view that the voters for the enemy are mostly those non-white people they feel are 'taking over the country', that they feel the numbers of those non-white people that can take power leave them living under the rule of the enemy, not that fellow good Americans vote for the other side. And the propaganda keeps them in line. This is our democracy.

 

[Chillfolks]

Not anymore than someone who finds themselves addicted to the propaganda produced by left wing media sources. Case in point where you have someone starting an OP to say anyone not in line with their views are victims of propaganda. The OP is a perfect example of projection and a gold mine of unintentional humor.

 

[bongsaway]

The founding fathers thought the average person was too stupid to vote, I think they might have been onto something?

 

[Gateman_Wen]

Not anymore than someone who finds themselves addicted to the propaganda produced by left wing media sources. Case in point where you have someone starting an OP to say anyone not in line with their views are victims of propaganda. The OP is a perfect example of projection and a gold mine of unintentional humor.

What propaganda is that?

 

[Michael Cole]

The founding fathers thought the average person was too stupid to vote, I think they might have been onto something?

Indeed. Kinda conflicts with the second paragraph of the OP. All 90% of those rural folk could not vote

 

[bongsaway]

What propaganda is that?

'The' propaganda, he told you.

 

[Bullseye]

When I think of the founding fathers, I think of people who put their trust in the people, to care about the good of the country, about justice, to have common sense. To self-rule better than they could be ruled.

The country they were in was as if from another planet compared to today. It was largely homogenous, 90% rural, made of people mostly with little education, with no powerful corporations, no 'propaganda machine' more sophisticated than a newspaper writer, no organized political machines. Just the equivalent of a small town without radio, the tv, or the internet.

What I'm seeing today is tens of millions of Americans who don't vote like Americans then would. Rather, I see them enthralled by propaganda, making them not care about rational policies, about morals, about 'the public good', but whipped into a frenzy listening to pundits - Hannity, Carlson, and many more - who use sophisticated advertising methods to turn them into a horde for Republican power.

When they vote, it's with years of daily mind control to hate Democrats and to get them to link Republicans with all the good words like 'liberty' and 'freedom', to make them emotionally feel like they are voting for saving the country from destruction, while they're actually voting pretty much for that destruction.

The worst the Republican party has to worry about is that their voters are unhappy with the Republican politicians also - and I see a lot of Republicans who say bad things about Republican politicians - but the propaganda machine leaves the voters where are still hugely convinced to vote against Democrats, who are far worse to them.

What we have now is a country with tens of millions of those people who are enthralled and led around by the nose to support the messages in the propaganda. It's a badly corrupted system where the policies don't get to the public to even much view them much less discuss them, but are carefully crafted behind closed doors to be passed, while the voters pull the lever with the stage show convincing them. This is not democracy, it's pretend democracy.

The very idea of the democracy the founders created where the politicians represent the voters is clearly silly now, as the Republican Party's actual agenda is written by corrupt and cynical officials who have an iron grip over the elected officials, as Congress spends half its time fundraising, and most go into lobbying for a payout for loyal service to donors when they leave office.

And in that situation, it's not surprising that voters feel democracy isn't useful to them - that 'winning' and having power is more important than democracy which risks the enemy winning, and the propaganda has them feeling like they are winning if the Republican Party does, even though they're mostly not except for some pandering. So the phrase 'end of democracy to seize power' doesn't have reason to sound very scary to them. It's them getting power, they think.

Their lack of support for democracy can be seen increased when you consider their view that the voters for the enemy are mostly those non-white people they feel are 'taking over the country', that they feel the numbers of those non-white people that can take power leave them living under the rule of the enemy, not that fellow good Americans vote for the other side. And the propaganda keeps them in line. This is our democracy.

How do you so consistently come down on the wrong side of facts? It utterly amazes me; the media today is dominated by LEFT WING dogma; some alleged "journalists" have said they see no need to report fairly or to tell both sides of the issue.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

How do you so consistently come down on the wrong side of facts? It utterly amazes me; the media today is dominated by LEFT WING dogma; some alleged "journalists" have said they see no need to report fairly or to tell both sides of the issue.

CAn you give us examples?

 

[Cardinal]

Yep. It's nearly impossible to discuss any issue outside the way that Fox News has framed it.

 

[Bullseye]

CAn you give us examples?

So you missed the "women are losing the right to an abortion" thing?

 

[Craig234]

The founding fathers thought the average person was too stupid to vote, I think they might have been onto something?

Another difference, though, is the nature of the 'elite' then and now. The elite then weren't saints, but they were guys who would create democracy - while today's elites are represented by the Koch cabal, monsters of corruption and tyranny and enemies of democracy. We're screwed, between voters enslaved to right-wing media and the Koch cabal types for the elite. We're counting on enough voters to vote well, as polls show they won't.

 

[bongsaway]

Another difference, though, is the nature of the 'elite' then and now. The elite then weren't saints, but they were guys who would create democracy - while today's elites are represented by the Koch cabal, monsters of corruption and tyranny and enemies of democracy. We're screwed, between voters enslaved to right-wing media and the Koch cabal types for the elite. We're counting on enough voters to vote well, as polls show they won't.

Batten down the hatches, I see a bad moon arisin'.

 

[Craig234]

Batten down the hatches, I see a bad moon arisin'.

You know, there's a complacency, a feeling of 'oh, the US does fine, democracy does fine, fads come and go'.

You would think as we look at the utter tyranny of China and their huge lying machine, we would see the danger. The shocking lies from Putin about his non-war operation to liberate Ukraine from Nazis, we would see the danger. And as we see the Republican Party vote to refuse to accept the votes for the presidency, vote against investigating the 1/6 insurrection, and lie about it all, the danger is clear.

That the right-wing political machine isn't a fad going away, which can't take over the country, that isn't something to ignore like the John Birch Society that lacked the numbers to take power - that this is a huge machine not going anywhere, with it lobbying system, its media machine, its ownership of the Republican Party, the Supreme Court it owns, its slate of election official candidates who support stealing elections, and polls showing them winning in 2022.

We'd like to ignore this but this is more than a moon.

 

[Chillfolks]

What propaganda is that?

Is that a serious question? You can’t be oblivious to the propaganda used on entertainment news commentary shows. Or the endless excuses the WH has been putting out to explain the poor economy under Biden from it’s not happening, it’s not that bad, it’s a good thing, it’s horrible and trumps fault, it’s Russia’s fault.

 

[HIP56948]

Donald Trump proved that way too many Americans have low cognitive skills.

 

[bongsaway]

Is that a serious question? You can’t be oblivious to the propaganda used on entertainment news commentary shows. Or the endless excuses the WH has been putting out to explain the poor economy under Biden from it’s not happening, it’s not that bad, it’s a good thing, it’s horrible and trumps fault, it’s Russia’s fault.

What poor economy? In america? Now?

 

[Craig234]

Donald Trump proved that way too many Americans have low cognitive skills.

The problem with that is that it doesn't solve anything. The implication of your post is, 'let's get rid of democracy, the people can't handle it.'

 

[bongsaway]

You know, there's a complacency, a feeling of 'oh, the US does fine, democracy does fine, fads come and go'.

You would think as we look at the utter tyranny of China and their huge lying machine, we would see the danger. The shocking lies from Putin about his non-war operation to liberate Ukraine from Nazis, we would see the danger. And as we see the Republican Party vote to refuse to accept the votes for the presidency, vote against investigating the 1/6 insurrection, and lie about it all, the danger is clear.

That the right-wing political machine isn't a fad going away, which can't take over the country, that isn't something to ignore like the John Birch Society that lacked the numbers to take power - that this is a huge machine not going anywhere, with it lobbying system, its media machine, its ownership of the Republican Party, the Supreme Court it owns, its slate of election official candidates who support stealing elections, and polls showing them winning in 2022.

We'd like to ignore this but this is more than a moon.

Let me be clearer. Should the gop take control of both the house and senate, america is ****ed unless we have a democratic president. What the right is trying to accomplish is like watching a repeat of 1930's germany. The gop is in the grips of idol worship, let's hope it doesn't destroy america.

 

[Rawley]

CAn you give us examples?

"I think it’s become clear that fairness is overrated ... the idea that we should always give two sides equal weight and merit does not reflect the world we find ourselves in" Lester Holt

Spiking of the Hunter Biden laptop.

 

[Craig234]

Let me be clearer. Should the gop take control of both the house and senate, america is ****ed unless we have a democratic president. What the right is trying to accomplish is like watching a repeat of 1930's germany. The gop is in the grips of idol worship, let's hope it doesn't destroy america.

The difference is, with Germany, the terrible agenda and the dictator were closely linked. But trump is just a 'front' to get votes, he has almost nothing to do with the actual Republican Party agenda. While you're right there's idol worship going on, that's not the main problem. trump is a sideshow.

 

[HIP56948]

The problem with that is that it doesn't solve anything. The implication of your post is, 'let's get rid of democracy, the people can't handle it.'

No. My point is that the fault is not the populace, it's the right-wing constant manipulation of the facts. Look at Ronald Reagan. His constant bullshit about the Government being the enemy was just a cover to let the rich and corporations run roughshod over the entire country. Rush Limbaugh grabbed the lie and continued to force it down the gullible throats of the misinformed. Fox news, Alex Jones and other pieces-of-shit still scream that movie like a known truth. The known truth is that we're on a downward slide greased by the very rich and powerful. By law, the USA airwaves belong to the public but you damn sure wouldn't know it by the way that the misinformation, lies and exaggerations have reached the public.
Is there a way to fix it? Damned if I know. I feel that it might be too late to fix it. No answers, just questions.
You say: The people can't handle it. Yes, I realize the sarcasm but the problem is not the people can't handle it, it's because too many people have the facts wrong, through no fault of their own. I certainly do not blame them. I blame the M.F's
Yes, I should have made my post less flippant. Sorry about that.

 

[PirateMk1]

What propaganda is that?

Corporate media, CNN, Fox, ABC, NY times. Ect.

 

[Craig234]

No. My point is that the fault is not the populace, it's the right-wing constant manipulation of the facts. Look at Ronald Reagan. His constant bullshit about the Government being the enemy was just a cover to let the rich and corporations run roughshod over the entire country. Rush Limbaugh grabbed the lie and continued to force it down the gullible throats of the misinformed. Fox news, Alex Jones and other pieces-of-shit still scream that movie like a known truth. The known truth is that we're on a downward slide greased by the very rich and powerful. By law, the USA airwaves belong to the public but you damn sure wouldn't know it by the way that the misinformation, lies and exaggerations have reached the public.
Is there a way to fix it? Damned if I know. I feel that it might be too late to fix it. No answers, just questions.
You say: The people can't handle it. Yes, I realize the sarcasm but the problem is not the people can't handle it, it's because too many people have the facts wrong, through no fault of their own. I certainly do not blame them. I blame the M.F's
Yes, I should have made my post less flippant. Sorry about that.

Ya, I was trying to encourage you to clarify and expand to make it more constructive. Just saying flaws with the people doesn't fix much, but recognizing how those flaws are exploited shows more of what can be improved - though that seems unlikely, including because they've locked up the Supreme Court to ensure it doesn't happen. But it's a better description.

 

[bongsaway]

No. My point is that the fault is not the populace, it's the right-wing constant manipulation of the facts. Look at Ronald Reagan. His constant bullshit about the Government being the enemy was just a cover to let the rich and corporations run roughshod over the entire country. Rush Limbaugh grabbed the lie and continued to force it down the gullible throats of the misinformed. Fox news, Alex Jones and other pieces-of-shit still scream that movie like a known truth. The known truth is that we're on a downward slide greased by the very rich and powerful. By law, the USA airwaves belong to the public but you damn sure wouldn't know it by the way that the misinformation, lies and exaggerations have reached the public.
Is there a way to fix it? Damned if I know. I feel that it might be too late to fix it. No answers, just questions.
You say: The people can't handle it. Yes, I realize the sarcasm but the problem is not the people can't handle it, it's because too many people have the facts wrong, through no fault of their own. I certainly do not blame them. I blame the M.F's
Yes, I should have made my post less flippant. Sorry about that.

I blame reagan for the start of the downfall of america he started all the doubt in the institutions of america and then ****ing used them for his iran/contra scandal. Attack the unions, close manufacturing plants for cheaper overseas labor and damned all democrats by making them into welfare queens. The base of the gop has been duped for decades and played as the suckers they obviously are because they keep coming back for more and trump will scam them out of every penny he can while promising them the moon in their white america. The gop has become a cancer growing on american democracy it needs to be removed before it kills the patient.

 

[Craig234]

I blame reagan for the start of the downfall of america he started all the doubt in the institutions of america

I give Reagan huge blame, but I think we need to understand he wasn't really the issue.

There has always been a tension between the wealthy and the public (which is a reason to repeat the Louis Brandeis quote that you can have great concentration of wealth, or democracy, but not both). It got a lot worse with the industrial revolution creating much greater wealth and inequality.

Our system was supposed to place the public interest clearly above special interests, and through the 1960's, that tension still had democracy placed first. Even Lincoln recognized the issue as he said the 'for, by, and of the people' line, and Eisenhower warned of needing to keep special interests from corrupting democracy.

But the real change, in my opinion, came during the Nixon administration, which decided to take the great wealth of the corporations, and use it as a fuel for a political machine, creating 'messaging' which would change public opinion to support them. That money fuels the organizations, the political operators, elections, lobbying, and propaganda media.

And that led to all kinds of that political machine being built, including building organizations dedicated to the power of the wealthy defeating the public interest - organizations created or increased such as Heritage, AEI, Hoover, Cato, and others; and the beginning of the Supreme Court project to turn corporate power into constitutional rights protected from public reforms.

So Reagan was a cheerleader for this and shifted public opinion, but he wasn't the main driver. A little like how it could wrongly be claimed how the Roe ruling was all about trump because he nominated the three Justices, but really he had nothing to do with the agenda or decades long effort to create the right-wing court takeover, he just happened to be in power to nominated names he was handed.

The root of this it seems to me is that Brandeis quote, that simply having massive fortunes creates inherent conflicts between those fortunes and the public interest, and the ability of those fortunes to fund a huge political machine that has corrupted the political system and conned much of the country is the issue, more than a person like Reagan.

But the turning point in the country at that time, when Reagan took office, is remarkable; I describe it as one of the three key turning points of American history, the first two being the industrial revolution and FDR's administration changing a lot in governance. But we don't even have a widely recognized name for that change of the business takeover of politics.