Do aborted fetuses go to heaven?

[HumanBeing]

the growing callousness towards life in society.

I hear people talking about this a lot, but is it really true? I mean, look at the world depicted by the Old Testament and compare it to the world we live in now. Yes, there is still lots of pain and suffering, but we don't openly argue in favor of the scale of mass ethnic cleansing as was common place (and encouraged) in the Bible. Times have changed so much that even people who follow the same God who unleashed deadly plagues across Egypt, killing countless men, women, children (and no doubt fetuses too), now claim that the killing of babies is "evil" and unjust under pretty much all circumstances, even when they belong to your enemy.

 

[Goshin]

I hear people talking about this a lot, but is it really true? I mean, look at the world depicted by the Old Testament and compare it to the world we live in now. Yes, there is still lots of pain and suffering, but we don't openly argue in favor of the scale of mass ethnic cleansing as was common place (and encouraged) in the Bible. Times have changed so much that even people who follow the same God who unleashed deadly plagues across Egypt, killing countless men, women, children (and no doubt fetuses too), now claim that the killing of babies is "evil" and unjust under pretty much all circumstances, even when they belong to your enemy.

Much much longer discussion, if you want to start talking about the whys and wherefores and etc of the OT. Thing is, it is an old tired argument, whenever anyone wants to justify anything its "well back in the OT they....!!!"

Let's stick to the actual topic. You asked a question framed in religious terms, you got a religious-framed answer. Maybe not the answer you liked, but it is what it is.

The callousness of society... possibly some of it is perception, but it certainly seems like the past 20 years I've heard FAR more stories about mothers killing their own children, attempting to kill their own children, women and men attacking pregnant women and trying to force them to miscarry by beating the abdomen for revenge purposes, that sort of thing. Two decades ago, Peter Singer's advocacy of infanticide up to age 3 would have resulted in him having to leave the country and change his name... now its still a big controversy but he continues to teach "bioethics" at the university.


It does seem to me that society has become more callous towards mothers and children in the past few decades, yes.

 

[Bonzai]

Much much longer discussion, if you want to start talking about the whys and wherefores and etc of the OT. Thing is, it is an old tired argument, whenever anyone wants to justify anything its "well back in the OT they....!!!"

Let's stick to the actual topic. You asked a question framed in religious terms, you got a religious-framed answer. Maybe not the answer you liked, but it is what it is.

The callousness of society... possibly some of it is perception, but it certainly seems like the past 20 years I've heard FAR more stories about mothers killing their own children, attempting to kill their own children, women and men attacking pregnant women and trying to force them to miscarry by beating the abdomen for revenge purposes, that sort of thing. Two decades ago, Peter Singer's advocacy of infanticide up to age 3 would have resulted in him having to leave the country and change his name... now its still a big controversy but he continues to teach "bioethics" at the university.


It does seem to me that society has become more callous towards mothers and children in the past few decades, yes.

Or maybe, like the present day Russia, a large section of America has basically dropped off the map and now spends most of it's myopic mental energy and unlimited time on pointless topics like "poor widdo ("preborn") babies"............................

 

[HumanBeing]

Much much longer discussion, if you want to start talking about the whys and wherefores and etc of the OT. Thing is, it is an old tired argument, whenever anyone wants to justify anything its "well back in the OT they....!!!"

Let's stick to the actual topic.

It is the actual topic. If God gave instructions to slaughter other people's babies, and even did so himself from time to time, then it seriously undermines the modern Christian "all life is sacred" argument. I mean, I actually agree with it, but I don't think it's a Christian thing, quite the opposite in fact.

You asked a question framed in religious terms, you got a religious-framed answer. Maybe not the answer you liked, but it is what it is.

I liked all the answers so far. I don't agree with some of them, but they all seem valid in one way or another.

The callousness of society... possibly some of it is perception, but it certainly seems like the past 20 years I've heard FAR more stories about mothers killing their own children, attempting to kill their own children, women and men attacking pregnant women and trying to force them to miscarry by beating the abdomen for revenge purposes, that sort of thing. Two decades ago, Peter Singer's advocacy of infanticide up to age 3 would have resulted in him having to leave the country and change his name... now its still a big controversy but he continues to teach "bioethics" at the university.

As I said, I'm not so sure more of this is going on than previously. I think we hear a lot more about it, because it's now stuff that people are widely outraged about. The specific example you gave isn't one I'm going to get into, but I will point out people have been saying that sort of stuff since biblical times, and it's only in the last couple of hundred years that it has become controversial, let alone near unanimously condemn-able.

 

[rjay]

Much much longer discussion, if you want to start talking about the whys and wherefores and etc of the OT. Thing is, it is an old tired argument, whenever anyone wants to justify anything its "well back in the OT they....!!!"

Let's stick to the actual topic. You asked a question framed in religious terms, you got a religious-framed answer. Maybe not the answer you liked, but it is what it is.

The callousness of society... possibly some of it is perception, but it certainly seems like the past 20 years I've heard FAR more stories about mothers killing their own children, attempting to kill their own children, women and men attacking pregnant women and trying to force them to miscarry by beating the abdomen for revenge purposes, that sort of thing. Two decades ago, Peter Singer's advocacy of infanticide up to age 3 would have resulted in him having to leave the country and change his name... now its still a big controversy but he continues to teach "bioethics" at the university.


It does seem to me that society has become more callous towards mothers and children in the past few decades, yes.

For examples of callousness you don't have to go back to the OT. Look at Dicken's England, Salem in the US, Many countries today in the Middle East.
No shortness of callousness now, nor was there ever.

 

[Goshin]

For examples of callousness you don't have to go back to the OT. Look at Dicken's England, Salem in the US, Many countries today in the Middle East.
No shortness of callousness now, nor was there ever.

Perfectly aware of that. I'm not talking about the 1800's, or the 1600s, or the Middle East. I'm talking about America over the past 40 years.

 

[Goshin]

Or maybe, like the present day Russia, a large section of America has basically dropped off the map and now spends most of it's myopic mental energy and unlimited time on pointless topics like "poor widdo ("preborn") babies"............................

Not dignifying that jackassery with any further response.

 

[minnie616]

Perfectly aware of that. I'm not talking about the 1800's, or the 1600s, or the Middle East. I'm talking about America over the past 40 years.

Well I was a young mother with a very much wanted baby when Roe vs Wade passed and I feel that for most part the fact now that most girls and women who give birth choose to give birth is much better for our society as a whole.

I love hearing all the women who are so excited they are expecting.
To me that is the way it should be. women should be thrilled that they are going to become mothers.
They should excited just like women who are so excited to be engaged and planning a wedding.

Pregnancy should be a happy, joyful event for a woman.

 

[Goshin]

Well I was a young mother with a very much wanted baby when Roe vs Wade passed and I feel that for most part the fact now that most girls and women who give birth choose to give birth is much better for our society as a whole.

I love hearing all the women who are so excited they are expecting.
To me that is the way it should be. women should be thrilled that they are going to become mothers.
They should excited just like women who are so excited to be engaged and planning a wedding.

Pregnancy should be a happy, joyful event for a woman.

I don't particularly disagree with anything you said. I just don't think abortion is necessarily the centerpiece of making sure every child is born wanted.

 

[csense]

Eve inherited her soul from Adam? Where do you get THAT from?

From what the Bible says, and what it doesn't say.

Genesis2:7-8
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Again, to my knowledge, this is the only instance in the Bible (the creation of Adam) where God infuses a human being with a soul, yet, we know we are all living souls, just like Adam:


Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.

Matthew 22:37
And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

Revelation 6:9
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne.

Etc...



A living soul begets a living soul.

 

[Bonzai]

Not dignifying that jackassery with any further response.

I'm not responsible for a good portion of this country becoming basically "terra incognita"......................

 

[davidtaylorjr]

Age of Innocence. Isn't the cut-off point from some Baptists age 13? So on the 13th birthday a teen is told "Congratulations! You are NOW old enough to go to hell."

I've never heard an age listed that high, but like I said, Age of Innocence is not explicitly stated in the Bible, just what some believe based on certain passages.

 

[roughdraft274]

I have never seen fetuses on heaven or heaven itself, hence I cannot tell you.

Thank you. This is about the only rational answer to this question. Everything else is guess work.

 

[DDD]

Thank you. This is about the only rational answer to this question. Everything else is guess work.

You are welcome.

 

[CanadaJohn]

According to Christianity, do aborted fetuses go to heaven? If not, how do you reconcile that with your ethics? And if they do, doesn't that mean abortion would be better for the fetus than giving birth?

That's just really sad - why stop at fetuses? - wouldn't it be better for all beings to be killed before experiencing life in your world?

While I'm not a religious person, I believe that all people of faith believe strongly in people going to a better place after this life but in no way does their faith teach them or encourage them to speed up that process - quite the opposite.

 

[Homer.]

Fetuses don'r go to heaven, because iheaven doesn't exist. /thread

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I don't particularly disagree with anything you said. I just don't think abortion is necessarily the centerpiece of making sure every child is born wanted.

Indeed, when you really think about the juxtaposition of one who thinks that “Every child deserves to be wanted and loved.” and advocates, as a means of enforcing this ideal, that any child who is not “wanted and loved” should be killed; it's really a very sick, depraved position to take.

In a broader sense, if one could form an objective measure of how well any given individual's life is going, then by this same thinking, we could speak of upholding an ideal that everyone deserves to have a life that meets some certain standard, and then enforcing it by killing anyone who doesn't meet that standard.

 

[minnie616]

Indeed, when you really think about the juxtaposition of one who thinks that “Every child deserves to be wanted and loved.” and advocates, as a means of enforcing this ideal, that any child who is not “wanted and loved” should be killed; it's really a very sick, depraved position to take.

.

I don't know where you get the idea that I or anyone else thinks that any child not loved should be killed but you are wrong.

I think all children deserve loving homes and my wish is that every child have as loving a home and loving parents parents like I did growing up and as I hope my 4 grown children whom we loved dearly feel they had also.

 

[HumanBeing]

That's just really sad - why stop at fetuses? - wouldn't it be better for all beings to be killed before experiencing life in your world?

Note that I'm not saying it's a perspective I agree with, especially since I'm not religious. I'm simply saying that traditional Christian arguments against abortion seem inconsistent to me, and pointing out what I believe to be faults in the logic.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I don't know where you get the idea that I or anyone else thinks that any child not loved should be killed but you are wrong.

Other than that that seems to be the only cause that I ever see you discuss on this forum, the “right” to kill children who are not wanted, no I don't see where anyone would get that idea either.

 

[Removable Mind]

Other than that that seems to be the only cause that I ever see you discuss on this forum, the “right” to kill children who are not wanted, no I don't see where anyone would get that idea either.

Seriously, Bob? You genuinely believe what you just posted?

So...you're saying that there are people on this site who actually say that they believe it's okay to terminate say a 9 week old fetus because it's not wanted...therefore they also believe that its okay to KILL, or if you prefer...MURDER a BORN CHILD...because the child isn't wanted?

Now, Bob...tell me you don't really believe that. That's so far fetched from 99 percent of the arguments in the Abortion Forum. That scenario is not a reality, you know that don't ya, Bob?

 

[thatguymd]

According to Christianity, do aborted fetuses go to heaven? If not, how do you reconcile that with your ethics? And if they do, doesn't that mean abortion would be better for the fetus than giving birth?

I believe that an aborted fetus would go to heaven but that doesn’t mean it is the best action to take. That is because you need to keep in mind that you have no idea what impact that life will have on other people as well. Their actions could have caused many others to be saved (even by actions where that wasn’t their intent).

That is all on top of the fact that you can’t ever be 100% sure about them going to heaven in the first place. I believe they do, but I don’t think that is a level of certainty you can have for anything ever.

It is, quite simply, pure speculation to look at how the afterlife is impacted. So it shouldn’t impact anyone’s views or actions on this issue.