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Do aborted fetuses go to heaven?

HumanBeing

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According to Christianity, do aborted fetuses go to heaven? If not, how do you reconcile that with your ethics? And if they do, doesn't that mean abortion would be better for the fetus than giving birth?
 

Rainman05

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This is a tricky question. Though I am no theologist, this is my analysis.

To my understanding, the Bible says every human being is given a soul+a guardian angel at birth. At birth. Not before birth. Fetuses, if aborted, are not born. So they are soulless... so by all accounts, spiritually, they don't exist.

However. I concede the fact that after the 6-7month period, fetuses look very much human. They move. They have brain functions. So if a fetus is aborted after the 6-7 month period, which is UNLIKELY. Most abortions are done to fetuses who are under 4-5months. But lets say, for the sake of discussion, that the mother who is 8 months into her pregnancy decides she wants an abortion. Abortion then can be considered premature birth... and so the child has a soul. And if he dies, if the proper rituals are made by a priest for absolution of the original sin, he goes to heaven.

Now. How do I reconcile my support for abortion (under 5-6months, as it currently is for most European states) even though I am a Christian? Simple. The law regarding abortion is a nation decision. Since I don't live in a theocratic state, Church laws are null and void, only state laws matter. So as a matter of state policy, I see no problem with abortion because it is a right that people should have. So people shouldn't be legally liable for having abortions.
 

csense

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...So they are soulless...

To my knowledge, Adam is the only instance in the Bible in which it is mentioned that God infuses man with a soul. Eve inherited her soul from Adam, and on down the line. It is something that is fluid and unbroken. This notion that God sits in Heaven and zaps a newborn with a soul, let alone the secular view that a persona emerges ex nihilo, is absurd.

This being that is created at the moment of conception is both spiritually and physically, a human being, and it can be nothing else.
 

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I have never seen fetuses on heaven or heaven itself, hence I cannot tell you.
 

nota bene

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According to Christianity, do aborted fetuses go to heaven? If not, how do you reconcile that with your ethics? And if they do, doesn't that mean abortion would be better for the fetus than giving birth?

"I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb."
 

Bob Blaylock

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According to Christianity, do aborted fetuses go to heaven? If not, how do you reconcile that with your ethics?

I don't know that there's any consistent doctrine across much of Christianity, but my own sect believes that up to a certain age, a child is not responsible for understanding right and wrong, and not culpable for any sin up to that point. A child who dies before reaching the point of accountability goes to Heaven.


And if they do, doesn't that mean abortion would be better for the fetus than giving birth?

By that logic, it would be better for any child below the age of accountability to kill him, rather than let him live, and risk having him sin to the degree that he is no longer assured of going to Heaven.

There are some subtleties of my religion that to one who understands and believes them, make more clear the absurdity and wrongness of this logic, but even without them, I think it is obvious that this is very wrong. Needlessly and unjustly killing any human being is one of the most evil things that we are capable of doing. I don't think there is any Abrahamic religion of any significance which believes that God ever did or would approve the idea that it is acceptable to kill anyone on the basis that by doing so, you're sending that person to Heaven.
 

HumanBeing

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By that logic, it would be better for any child below the age of accountability to kill him, rather than let him live, and risk having him sin to the degree that he is no longer assured of going to Heaven.

There are some subtleties of my religion that to one who understands and believes them, make more clear the absurdity and wrongness of this logic, but even without them, I think it is obvious that this is very wrong. Needlessly and unjustly killing any human being is one of the most evil things that we are capable of doing.
I completely agree with your assessment regarding the morality of killing babies and young children as being reprehensible and "evil", but my question is more related to how that reconciles with Christianity and some of the traditional abortion arguments. After all, if one was to argue that a baby doesn't have a soul until it's born (as Rainman05 suggested), then it takes away from the idea that religion dictates life as starting at the moment of conception.

I don't think there is any Abrahamic religion of any significance which believes that God ever did or would approve the idea that it is acceptable to kill anyone on the basis that by doing so, you're sending that person to Heaven.
Did David's baby who was tortured to death over the course of several days by your God as punishment for his father's sin end up in heaven or hell? Or how about the Egyptian babies that God and Moses killed? He clearly thought it was better for those people to die than to live, as he played an active role in their deaths.
 

JayDubya

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So basically, anyone who we think is good and will go to heaven should be killed, because that would be the nice thing to do?


:vomit:
 

Risky Thicket

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Yeah, sure, they go to heaven and live forever in the bellies of pregnant women in heaven who are pregnant forever. Lovely. :roll:
 

Paschendale

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"I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb."

Okay, god knows us before we are conceived. Well, since god can see the future, and claims to have a plan for every person who has ever lived, does live, and will ever live, that's not a detail that needs pointing out. What does that have to do with abortion? God knows which pregnancies will come to fruition, which will miscarry, which will be aborted, which will have complications, and more. "Knowing" does not mean "will force you to give birth to."

So basically, anyone who we think is good and will go to heaven should be killed, because that would be the nice thing to do?

Sure. What is a temporary corporeal life compared with eternal bliss? If you really believe in heaven and hell, then every moment on this Earth is a liability. You might stray and die before you can atone. The only rational choice is to try to die as quickly as possible so you don't risk hell. If there is any moment where you feel you can know that your soul is clean, you should want to die the very next moment. If an eternity of happiness or brutal torture really is on the line, then we should be doing any and everything possible to secure the former and escape the latter.

But almost no one actually believes this strongly enough to die for it. Or else are arrogant enough to think that they are so proper that they will never stray and their souls are forever safe. And those people would probably be in hell if there was one. Pride is one of the big no no's.

There are some subtleties of my religion that to one who understands and believes them, make more clear the absurdity and wrongness of this logic, but even without them, I think it is obvious that this is very wrong. Needlessly and unjustly killing any human being is one of the most evil things that we are capable of doing. I don't think there is any Abrahamic religion of any significance which believes that God ever did or would approve the idea that it is acceptable to kill anyone on the basis that by doing so, you're sending that person to Heaven.

That's not a subtlety of religion. That's cognitive dissonance. The logic is sound, but we all know that it's wrong and absurd. We all know that sacrificing this life in pursuit of another one is a terrible idea. That right there is tiniest bit of knowledge on your part that all this afterlife crap is nonsense and that we only get this life and need to live it to the fullest.
 

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As with all arguments, justification can be found in the Bible. It has desireable wordings to match any argument. Therefore, it's more useful to look at historical context.

Christianity has never valued fetuses until the modern era. Looking at major institutions like the Catholic Church, which is roughly 2000 years old now, there was never any comment on the unborn. But maybe that's because until recently in history, women weren't people, so the argument over women being more important than the fetuses was moot, since neither were sentient anyway.

Nonetheless, abortion has always been present, from the classical period to the middle ages when Christianity ruled most of Europe alongside the Divine Right of Kings, and the termination of fetuses was never really seen as important. It was far more important to avoid bastardization of lineages by making sure couples were married, and that all children were baptized. The abortion of a bastard was seen as far more favorable than letting such a pregnancy continue. The only examples that stick out in my mind that might contradict this are when stillbirths happened to royalty or nobles... then there might have been a funeral. Usually though, the corpse was burried in an unmarked grave, because attaching a name to the stillborn would impact family lineages and legal obligations.

In short, no religious or legal consideration was given to fetuses throughout the history of the Abrahamic faiths and their parallel civilizations. Only born children were of value.
 

nota bene

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Do you really suppose that the wholesale slaughter of the unborn was even envisioned in earlier centuries? The sentimentalizing of children is a new concept, but "Be fruitful and multiply" is not. Applying the values and understanding of the 20th century to ancient cultures doesn't necessarily work.
 

davidtaylorjr

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According to Christianity, do aborted fetuses go to heaven? If not, how do you reconcile that with your ethics? And if they do, doesn't that mean abortion would be better for the fetus than giving birth?

There are thoughts on both sides of the fence, but the Bible doesn't explicitly say one way or another. There is a concept of age of innocence, which means basically kids who have not yet gotten to know what is good or evil right or wrong would go to Heaven. But the Bible is not specific.
 

rocket88

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According to Christianity, do aborted fetuses go to heaven? If not, how do you reconcile that with your ethics? And if they do, doesn't that mean abortion would be better for the fetus than giving birth?

The Catholic Church came up with the concept of "Limbo" to deal with the question of those, such as children, who are unbaptized yet not in a state of sin.

Actually, "Limbo" as a place was a misunderstanding of the actual council documents, which chose to put the question in "limbo" or "off to the side" until they figured it out.
 

joko104

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To my knowledge, Adam is the only instance in the Bible in which it is mentioned that God infuses man with a soul. Eve inherited her soul from Adam, and on down the line. It is something that is fluid and unbroken. This notion that God sits in Heaven and zaps a newborn with a soul, let alone the secular view that a persona emerges ex nihilo, is absurd.

This being that is created at the moment of conception is both spiritually and physically, a human being, and it can be nothing else.

Eve inherited her soul from Adam? Where do you get THAT from? Eve got a rib from Adam according to the OT.
 

joko104

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There are thoughts on both sides of the fence, but the Bible doesn't explicitly say one way or another. There is a concept of age of innocence, which means basically kids who have not yet gotten to know what is good or evil right or wrong would go to Heaven. But the Bible is not specific.

Age of Innocence. Isn't the cut-off point from some Baptists age 13? So on the 13th birthday a teen is told "Congratulations! You are NOW old enough to go to hell."
 

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In the OT, destroying someone else's fetus was only a civil matter. Killing a born baby was murder. Total distinction.
 

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"I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb."

That verse, at best, could be used - and was used - to justify outlawing contraceptives, not abortions - because it says "BEFORE" formed in the womb, not after already in the womb.

"God said" (in the Bible) that the wrongful death of a fetus is NOT a crime, but only a potential financial lose for which a money penalty is to be paid. Killing a child, though, is murder according to God.

So exactly everyone who claims a fetus is a child as much as a both child is a heretic and a liar in terms of what the Bible says. "God" said exactly the opposite in the Bible. AND GOD made that the LAW too.
 

nota bene

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That verse, at best, could be used - and was used - to justify outlawing contraceptives, not abortions - because it says "BEFORE" formed in the womb, not after already in the womb.

"God said" (in the Bible) that the wrongful death of a fetus is NOT a crime, but only a potential financial lose for which a money penalty is to be paid. Killing a child, though, is murder according to God.

So exactly everyone who claims a fetus is a child as much as a both child is a heretic and a liar in terms of what the Bible says. "God" said exactly the opposite in the Bible. AND GOD made that the LAW too.

Odd use of quote marks there—was your intention to suggest that there really isn’t a “God”?

Calling anyone a heretic is monstrous. What chutzpah you have. :2sick1:
 

tessaesque

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If you believe the Bible (KJV), then yeah...

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

I know of no passage that suggests a fetus has no soul.
 

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Is a soul like what the Egyptians used to call their ka ?...................
 

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"I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb."

That's a pretty profound statement...

It appears that the bottom line is: Every conception is perceived by theists as a divine event, thus aborting a fetus is purposely destroying god's creation...which has a purpose?

So one who is a theist would pretty much have to believe that all sexual encounters is at least potentially the handy work of god...because it might be god's plan for the creation of a biological vessel to put a supernatural soul in? I mean that there would be no way for a human to tell for sure which sexual encounter was or wasn't meant to produce a fetus.

But then people have free will...which is basically a contradiction to the terms "god's plans" and possibly "divine intervention". It would seem that an act of free will would have to have the power to thwart or negate a divine intervention.

What humans perceive as irresponsible sex may not be irresponsible sex...if what people believe regarding god being the human inspiration to have sex to make a mortal being to place a soul in it.

Sounds pretty complex to me.
 

minnie616

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I think that fetuses that are miscarried or aborted are just the shells that a soul enters into at birth.
About two thirds of zygotes ( fertilized eggs ) are never implanted or self abort about the first week after implanting.
It does not matter that they had "unique" DNA.

They passed right though the body.


I had two miscarriages. my second one was a very deformed fetus.
If I had not had those two miscarriages my two youngest might never have been born
because my husband and I had wanted and planned for 4 children.

God sometimes works in very mysterious ways.
Sometimes things are not meant to be.
We have no idea if sometimes abortions are a part of God's plan
just as miscarriages may sometimes be a part of God's plan.


I had two miscarriages between my 2 ed and 3rd child.
The first miscarriage was early on. I was about 5 to 6 weeks gestation.
If I had carried to term the due date would have been in March.
During my 4th pregnancy I went into premature labor when I was about 5 months gestation.
I was looking forward to a healthy baby.

My doctor was out of town so when I went into early labor we ended up at the ER.
They took a pregnancy test and told me I was no longer pregnant.
The doctor covering for my doctor did not want to come in that day so they shot me full of med's to try to stop the labor.
They took me to the maternity ward with other woman who had given birth to healthy babies.
When I was transferring from the gurney to the bed the fetus was expelled and I accidentally saw it and how deformed it was.

It was a nightmare.

My doctor told me that the fetus was so deformed that even if I had carried it longer it never would have been viable.

That deformed fetus was never a baby ,
it was never a person, and it never had a chance of becoming a person.
It was just a clump of deformed cells , a miscarriage in the making from the time I conceived.
If it had been a healthy pregnancy and I had carried it to term my due date would have been in November.

A little more than year later I learned I was pregnant again.
I was very worried I might miscarry again.
I had been irregular so the doctor sent me for an ultrasound to monitor how far along I was and if everything looked normal.
I was told my due date was the end of January.
I had some false labor mid January ,went to the hospital and I was sent back home.
I had false labor again the end of January but it stopped so the doctor ordered meds to induce the labor.
The contractions were coming too hard and too fast. They were worried about the baby so
they stopped it.
My doctor ordered fetal activity tests 2 times a week for the next 4 weeks.
To make a long story shorter our "Miracle" child was born March 2 ed.
Two and half years later our youngest was born in November.

March and November ... God chose the same months my miscarried ones were due.
 

Northern Light

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Do you really suppose that the wholesale slaughter of the unborn was even envisioned in earlier centuries? The sentimentalizing of children is a new concept, but "Be fruitful and multiply" is not. Applying the values and understanding of the 20th century to ancient cultures doesn't necessarily work.

I'm not saying that modern values are irrelevant, I'm saying that the idea that fetuses go to Heaven, as a Judeochristian policy, is entirely new. The stances of individuals will always vary but the Church has never wavered about it.
 

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According to Christianity, do aborted fetuses go to heaven? If not, how do you reconcile that with your ethics? And if they do, doesn't that mean abortion would be better for the fetus than giving birth?

Different denominations have different takes on this, but most Protestant and Evangelical churches say they do.


However, that doesn't address the spiritual damage done to those who choose abortion or perform it, or the growing callousness towards life in society.
 
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