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Disobedience Is Unbelief...

Arlette said:
You know the drill. Bible gibberish doesn't count.
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You know the drill...don't post to me if you don't wanna hear God's Word...
 
Daisy said:
You know the drill...don't post to me if you don't wanna hear God's Word...
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Don't you mean the words of his biographers?
 
Arlette said:
Don't you mean the words of his biographers?
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Daisy said:
Are you, where God's Word is concerned?
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Yes.

How is it logical for god to create Satan, or punish things it created by depriving them of eternal life because they don't do as god says?

Logically, you could say that god wants there to be pain and suffering, hate, fear, and everything else, because god created those things. Why would god create things that it did not want to exist?
 
samiam5211 said:
ogically, you could say that god wants there to be pain and suffering, hate, fear, and everything else, because god created those things. Why would god create things that it did not want to exist?
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Just the opposite...He wants to help us to understand that listening to Him is for our own good...I know, from experience it works...

"This is what Jehovah says, your Repurchaser, the Holy One of Israel:
“I, Jehovah, am your God,
The One teaching you to benefit yourself,
The One guiding you in the way you should walk" Isaiah 48:17
 
Daisy said:
Just the opposite...He wants to help us to understand that listening to Him is for our own good...I know, from experience it works...

"This is what Jehovah says, your Repurchaser, the Holy One of Israel:
“I, Jehovah, am your God,
The One teaching you to benefit yourself,
The One guiding you in the way you should walk" Isaiah 48:17
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Why does he give the option of not understanding that?
 
samiam5211 said:
Why does he give the option of not understanding that?
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Free will...He allows us to make a choice...good or bad...if we rely on Him and His Word for guidance, the choice will be good...if we rely on our own understanding without consulting Him, the choice will more than likely be bad...why take that chance?

“Trust in Jehovah with all your heart, and do not rely on your own understanding.
In all your ways take notice of him, And he will make your paths straight." Proverbs 3:5,6
 
Daisy said:
Free will...He allows us to make a choice...good or bad...if we rely on Him and His Word for guidance, the choice will be good...if we rely on our own understanding without consulting Him, the choice will more than likely be bad...why take that chance?

“Trust in Jehovah with all your heart, and do not rely on your own understanding.
In all your ways take notice of him, And he will make your paths straight." Proverbs 3:5,6
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Again, it seems to be a game that god created to see how many of the creations will pay enough attention to god to avoid eternal death.

God created Satan. That seems like a terrible thing to, logically. Whatever goal god was hoping to accomplish, could have been accomplished without creating Satan, unless god really just wanted there to be a Satan.

God created free will, god created all of the options people with free will get to choose from. Even if they choose a terrible option that harms other people, the only reason they make that choice is because god created that option.
 
samiam5211 said:
Again, it seems to be a game that god created to see how many of the creations will pay enough attention to god to avoid eternal death.

God created Satan. That seems like a terrible thing to, logically. Whatever goal god was hoping to accomplish, could have been accomplished without creating Satan, unless god really just wanted there to be a Satan.

God created free will, god created all of the options people with free will get to choose from. Even if they choose a terrible option that harms other people, the only reason they make that choice is because god created that option.
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So, God is responsible for everything that happens in the universe and we should disregard cause and effect/consequences of actions? Is that what you're saying?
 
Daisy said:
So, God is responsible for everything that happens in the universe and we should disregard cause and effect/consequences of actions? Is that what you're saying?
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I'm saying that Satan exists because god created him.

God is the cause, and Satan is the effect.
 
samiam5211 said:
I'm saying that Satan exists because god created him.

God is the cause, and Satan is the effect.
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But He's not...

So, did God create Satan the Devil? No! An angel who had been in heaven when God prepared the earth for Adam and Eve changed and became the Devil. (Job 38:4, 7) How was that possible? Well, how does an honest person change and become a thief? He was not born a thief. But he desires, or wants, something that doesn’t belong to him. He keeps thinking about it, and his wrong desire becomes stronger. Then, when he gets a chance, he steals it. He has turned himself into a thief.—Read James 1:13-15; see Endnote 8.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102015143?q=create+satan&p=sen
 
Daisy said:
But He's not...

So, did God create Satan the Devil? No! An angel who had been in heaven when God prepared the earth for Adam and Eve changed and became the Devil. (Job 38:4, 7) How was that possible? Well, how does an honest person change and become a thief? He was not born a thief. But he desires, or wants, something that doesn’t belong to him. He keeps thinking about it, and his wrong desire becomes stronger. Then, when he gets a chance, he steals it. He has turned himself into a thief.—Read James 1:13-15; see Endnote 8.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102015143?q=create+satan&p=sen
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God created the possibility of Satan. That was a choice god made. If god had not chosen to create the possibility of Satan, there would be no Satan.

There isn't any logical conclusion that doesn't end with god being responsible for Satan existing.
 
Everything about religion is a lie. The only reason religious lies (like the existence of Satan or other deities) survives is because of inter-generational indoctrination of children, exploiting their fears of dying or of their parents dying and never getting to see them again, to convince them they must believe these religious lies or else those worst fears will happen. That is evil. Religion itself is evil.
 
samiam5211 said:
God created the possibility of Satan. That was a choice god made. If god had not chosen to create the possibility of Satan, there would be no Satan.

There isn't any logical conclusion that doesn't end with god being responsible for Satan existing.
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The same Problem of Evil that monotheists will never be able to coherently address.
 
Positive claim regarding the origin/creation of Satan by a self-proclaimed Christian theist 👇

Daisy said:
Satan created/made himself when he rebelled...
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What the Bible says that summarily debunks the positive claim put forth by the theist.


Christ created all things (Colossians 1:16), including the devil.👇
 
Daisy said:
But He's not...

So, did God create Satan the Devil? No! An angel who had been in heaven when God prepared the earth for Adam and Eve changed and became the Devil. (Job 38:4, 7) How was that possible? Well, how does an honest person change and become a thief? He was not born a thief. But he desires, or wants, something that doesn’t belong to him. He keeps thinking about it, and his wrong desire becomes stronger. Then, when he gets a chance, he steals it. He has turned himself into a thief.—Read James 1:13-15; see Endnote 8.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102015143?q=create+satan&p=sen
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Did God not create desire in the first place? Did God not know, when he created desire, all the would follow from it, and therefore allowed it to happen?
 
spud_meister said:
Did God not create desire in the first place? Did God not know, when he created desire, all the would follow from it, and therefore allowed it to happen?
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Desire is like any other human emotion...we can use it wisely or badly...choice/free will...
 
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