Democrats push to eliminate the debt ceiling, allow unlimited government borrowing

[Fishking]

Someone is angry.

Again, you and your GQP cultists only care about spending, deficits, and debt when the votes don't go your way.

Yes...a moderator directly ignoring the subject just to directly call me a white supremacist pisses me off.

 

[Kushinator]

Yes...

Do you want the password to your safe space?

a moderator directly ignoring the subject just to directly call me a white supremacist pisses me off.

If the shoe fits Cinderella.

 

[MTAtech]

What other mechanism do we have to hold our spending in check, even a little bit, besides out debt ceiling routinely popping up to make politicians give more than a single passing thought to our spending?

You’re right. It sure would be nice if Congress got to vote on spending and writing spend bills. Oh wait…

 

[Fishking]

You’re right. It sure would be nice if Congress got to vote on spending and writing spend bills. Oh wait…

They do it and don't care about actually budgeting. There is no real mechanism that causes any distress to them overspending beyond the budget ceiling.

 

[Nickyjo]

just read that

liberals will swear this is a great idea - that 33 trillion in debt isn't enough, we need 50 trillion in debt

And conservatives will never say and stand behind what they want to cut. This is not to pay for future spending, it’s to pay for the services and weapons we’ve already been using. Liberals tax and spend. Conservatives spend just as much but don’t tax. Best of both worlds for the right: they keep their constituents happy and get to complain.

 

[TomFitz]

They do it and don't care about actually budgeting. There is no real mechanism that causes any distress to them overspending beyond the budget ceiling.

Well, no. Actually.

It wasn’t until 1974 that Congress ever adopted a budget.

 

[MTAtech]

just read that

liberals will swear this is a great idea - that 33 trillion in debt isn't enough, we need 50 trillion in debt

First, it’s 31 trillion, not 33.
Second, while conservatives see smaller spending and smaller government as an end in itself, liberals don’t see bigger spending the same way. Think about it: while you often see conservatives crow about, say, reducing discretionary spending as a good thing just because the number is down, do you ever see liberals crowing about a rise in spending, never mind what on? Liberals want government to do certain things, like provide essential health care and maintaining a safety net; the amount of spending per se isn’t the objective.

 

[Carjosse]

If a country approves spending it should also implicitly approve any borrowing to cover that spending. The US is the only country in the world that doesn’t work like that.

The Republicans literally invented an arbitrary rule just so that they can fight over it.

 

[Kushinator]

They do it and don't care about actually budgeting. There is no real mechanism that causes any distress to them overspending beyond the budget ceiling.

You can't define overspending, much less identify it.

 

[Fishking]

You can't define overspending, much less identify it.

Spending more than you bring in. Every single year we spend more than we bring in. Any other tough requests, like what my favorite color is?

 

[Kushinator]

Spending more than you bring in.

That's called a deficit. The funny thing is you don't know how much is brought in until it's brought in.

Every single year we spend more than we bring in.

Again, that's called a deficit... Overspending is more nuanced than failing to equivocate it with a deficit.

Like most of your posts, you're just spewing opinionated (uninformed at that) drivel.

 

[Fishking]

That's called a deficit. The funny thing is you don't know how much is brought in until it's brought in.

Again, that's called a deficit... Overspending is more nuanced than failing to equivocate it with a deficit.

Like most of your posts, you're just spewing opinionated (uninformed at that) drivel.

No ****ing shit it's a deficit. The deficit is caused by overspending. Your post contains the intellectual wisdom of sniffing markers.

 

[Kushinator]

The deficit is caused by overspending.

This is false. A deficit is defined as spending > revenue. Given the are two variables in this identity, your statement is invalid.

 

[Fishking]

This is false. A deficit is defined as spending > revenue. Given the are two variables in this identity, your statement is invalid.

You literally just repeated what I said earlier. You make zero sense.

 

[Kushinator]

You literally just repeated what I said earlier. You make zero sense.

You're struggling with terminology because you've attempted to interchange your opinions with the meaning of words.

Overspending refers to a value judgement... an opinion (normative).

 

[Fishking]

You're struggling with terminology because you've attempted to interchange your opinions with the meaning of words.

Overspending refers to a value judgement... an opinion (normative).

I'm not struggling with anything. It's not complicated. We are paying hundreds of billions just on our minimum interest payment on our debt because of our deficit, which is the result of overspending. There is absolutely no way you can deny that.

Definition of OVERSPEND

to spend or use to excess : exhaust; to exceed in expenditure; to spend beyond one's means… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

1
: to spend or use to excess : EXHAUST
2
: to exceed in expenditure

 

[Kushinator]

I'm not struggling with anything.

Of course you are and I've already explained why. Your opinion doesn't matter.

We are paying hundreds of billions just on our minimum interest payment on our debt because of our deficit

So? People used to say the same thing when it was hundreds of thousands or millions.

which is the result of overspending.

Opinionated drivel.

 

[Michael Cole]

You literally just repeated what I said earlier. You make zero sense.

Makes perfect sense. It's as much under taxing as it is overspending. Two variables. It's your characterization that doesn't make sense.

 

[Kushinator]

Makes perfect sense. It's as much under taxing as it is overspending. Two variables. It's your characterization that doesn't make sense.

Exactly. Overspending is a value judgement. What one person considers overspending might not be considered the same by someone else.

A deficit however is entirely objective.

In economics, there are two types of analysis: normative and positive. For some strange reason, @Fishking believes his opinion on what constitutes overspending is a fact... which is complete and utter nonsense.

 

[hecatmoggie]

How do you get the bolded?

Obama added 8.6T debt in 8 years
Trump added 9.2T debt in 4 years
Biden added 3.3T debt in 2 years.

Of the three Presidents, Obama seems the frugalist, with Biden being a lot worse, and Trump being far worse yet!

Source:

U.S. National Debt by President

Check out how the national debt has increased by year and president. Depending on how you measure it, the answers may differ.

www.thebalancemoney.com

your source made a lot of conditions and concessions and excuses to make Biden look better

I don't do that

hard numbers look better to me - tell me what the national debt was the day Biden took office - and what it is right now, and that's what has happened under his watch. Same for Obama and Trump and all the others.

IIRC Obama really added massive debt, Trump continued it, Biden is setting new records with as much as 9-10 trillion in 4 years

When Obama was sworn in on Jan. 20, 2009, the debt was $10.626 trillion.1 When he left office on Jan. 20, 2017, it was $19.937 trillion. 9 trillion added in 8 years

The national debt stood at $19.9 trillion when President Trump took office in January 2017, and it reached a high of $27 trillion in October 2020. 7 trillion added in 4 years

we are today at 31.5 trillion - Biden has added 4.5 trillion in 2 years

 

[vegas giants]

your source made a lot of conditions and concessions and excuses to make Biden look better

I don't do that

hard numbers look better to me - tell me what the national debt was the day Biden took office - and what it is right now, and that's what has happened under his watch. Same for Obama and Trump and all the others.

IIRC Obama really added massive debt, Trump continued it, Biden is setting new records with as much as 9-10 trillion in 4 years

When Obama was sworn in on Jan. 20, 2009, the debt was $10.626 trillion.1 When he left office on Jan. 20, 2017, it was $19.937 trillion. 9 trillion added in 8 years

The national debt stood at $19.9 trillion when President Trump took office in January 2017, and it reached a high of $27 trillion in October 2020. 7 trillion added in 4 years

we are today at 31.5 trillion - Biden has added 4.5 trillion in 2 years

Yet our debt causes us no problems

 

[hecatmoggie]

I won't hold my breath waiting for a Republican to begin specifying exactly where to make substantial, meaningful cuts.

Meanwhile, there are lots of opportunities to raise taxes. How about we start on the estate tax. Conservatives aren't supposed to support freeloaders, right?

chasing the 'ol "specifics" argument 'eh ?

I put a link to every little pork spending in the omnibus and nobody wanted to look at it and detail all the billions in spending we don't need.

this Govt's JOB is specifics, like my job is cellular. Democrats can't tell me the specifics on making our networks better but then expect me to since that's my job right?

I expect things from our Govt the same way and Biden and all the records he's setting, record debt is just one more on his list

 

[hecatmoggie]

Yet our debt causes us no problems

then run it to 100 Trillion - debt doesn't matter ?

or cut everyone's taxes down to 2% flat tax - because it doesn't matter, right?

 

[vegas giants]

chasing the 'ol "specifics" argument 'eh ?

I put a link to every little pork spending in the omnibus and nobody wanted to look at it and detail all the billions in spending we don't need.

this Govt's JOB is specifics, like my job is cellular. Democrats can't tell me the specifics on making our networks better but then expect me to since that's my job right?

I expect things from our Govt the same way and Biden and all the records he's setting, record debt is just one more on his list

What problem has our debt ever caused you?

 

[vegas giants]

then run it to 100 Trillion - debt doesn't matter ?

or cut everyone's taxes down to 2% flat tax - because it doesn't matter, right?

Answer the question

What problem has our debt caused you?