Democrats push to eliminate the debt ceiling, allow unlimited government borrowing

[Kushinator]

disagree

But is it... girthy?

 

[vegas giants]

disagree


View attachment 67433766

That's not massive

Why the $22 trillion national debt doesn't matter – here's what you should worry about instead

Although US debt may be at eye-popping levels, an economist explains why it shouldn’t keep you up at night.

www.google.com

 

[hecatmoggie]

That's not massive

its a bigger word than massive, like colossal, considerable, enormous, gigantic, humongous, monumental, sizeable, tremendous, vast, whopping, astronomic, epic, jumbo, mammoth, massive, mega, monster, prodigious, behemoth, elephantine

List of countries with respect to external debt
Country/Region	External debt
	US dollars
United States	31 trillion
United Kingdom	8.73 trillion
France	7.04 trillion
Germany	6.46 trillion
Japan	4.36 trillion
China	2.64 trillion
Italy	2.51 trillion
Spain	2.26 trillion
Canada	1.93 trillion
Australia	1.83 trillion
Switzerland	1.82 trillion
Singapore	1.67 trillion
Belgium	1.28 trillion
Austria	757 billion
Norway	721 billion
Finland	136 billion
India	620.7 billion
Brazil	556 billion
Netherlands	555 billion
Denmark	492 billion

 

[vegas giants]

its a bigger word than massive, like colossal, considerable, enormous, gigantic, humongous, monumental, sizeable, tremendous, vast, whopping, astronomic, epic, jumbo, mammoth, massive, mega, monster, prodigious, behemoth, elephantine

List of countries with respect to external debt
Country/Region	External debt
	US dollars
United States	31 trillion
United Kingdom	8.73 trillion
France	7.04 trillion
Germany	6.46 trillion
Japan	4.36 trillion
China	2.64 trillion
Italy	2.51 trillion
Spain	2.26 trillion
Canada	1.93 trillion
Australia	1.83 trillion
Switzerland	1.82 trillion
Singapore	1.67 trillion
Belgium	1.28 trillion
Austria	757 billion
Norway	721 billion
Finland	136 billion
India	620.7 billion
Brazil	556 billion
Netherlands	555 billion
Denmark	492 billion

Yet economists disagree with you

Here's why top economists are not worried about the national debt, now worth over $26 trillion

Top economists are not worried about the national debt, worth over $26 trillion.

www.google.com

 

[Paradoxical]

same response - you and vegas giants don't think massive debt and spending is a problem, that defaulting on debt and all that comes with that is funny and won't effect you and yours

that's a belief some people have - yet you can look at history and see how country's in massive debt have defaulted and the collapses that follow and keep telling yourself it'll never happen here - head in the sand kinda thing

Stealthyhcat, unless you are here under a different name, you haven't been here long enough to know the type of posters you are responding to. Even though many show their lean as liberal, they are really Marxists, socialists, or Communists, and very young. I am talking twentysomething or perhaps early thirties still living at home with their parents. Not all because there are a few old codgers here like Bernie Sanders.

They want a NEW America. One that is just one of the global countries intent on doing away with capitalism and fossil fuels and a country that is not a superpower because they don't want conflict with countries like China because they actually LIKE the way China controls its populace and wishes America could be more like them. They see countries like Cuba and Venezuela and believe that they just need more time to tweak socialism and make it work. If you tell them that Venezuela was once a prosperous country they scoff at that and deny that strict government controls ruined their country.

For the most part, my take on the majority of liberal posters here is that they are all graduates of some liberal college and had professors teaching them that capitalism is bad and that greedy people who have millions or billions must be slapped down and brought down to the level of others, out of fairness and equity.

Your postings remind me of a poster that was here a year or so ago that was always on the mark and who gave the "receipts" for what he was talking about. He rarely criticized or insulted other posters and yet was permanently banned, much to my surprise. Kinda like Trump, because he made too much sense.

 

[vegas giants]

Stealthyhcat, unless you are here under a different name, you haven't been here long enough to know the type of posters you are responding to. Even though many show their lean as liberal, they are really Marxists, socialists, or Communists, and very young. I am talking twentysomething or perhaps early thirties still living at home with their parents. Not all because there are a few old codgers here like Bernie Sanders.

They want a NEW America. One that is just one of the global countries intent on doing away with capitalism and fossil fuels and a country that is not a superpower because they don't want conflict with countries like China because they actually LIKE the way China controls its populace and wishes America could be more like them. They see countries like Cuba and Venezuela and believe that they just need more time to tweak socialism and make it work. If you tell them that Venezuela was once a prosperous country they scoff at that and deny that strict government controls ruined their country.

For the most part, my take on the majority of liberal posters here is that they are all graduates of some liberal college and had professors teaching them that capitalism is bad and that greedy people who have millions or billions must be slapped down and brought down to the level of others, out of fairness and equity.

Your postings remind me of a poster that was here a year or so ago that was always on the mark and who gave the "receipts" for what he was talking about. He rarely criticized or insulted other posters and yet was permanently banned, much to my surprise. Kinda like Trump, because he made too much sense.

You are simply terrified of honest debate


Dismissed

 

[Questerr]

It did. It does. And it always has. And it always should matter, regardless who is president.

But especially now that our debt / GDP ratio is well over 125%, we're in a situation that is not financially sustainable.

We need to balance our budget, period.

Ummm… our debt to GDP ratio is not bad at all.

The British Empire was able to have a debt to GDP ratio many times higher than ours with no problem for decades.

 

[Fishking]

Of course you are and I've already explained why. Your opinion doesn't matter.

So? People used to say the same thing when it was hundreds of thousands or millions.

Opinionated drivel.

Our national debt begs to differ. Wait...I think I figured out what's wrong here. I think you believe in that dumb**** Keynesian economics bullshit so you think ridiculous spending doesn't matter.

Lol...that's funny. I was wondering why you were struggling with such basic shit.

 

[vegas giants]

Our national debt begs to differ. Wait...I think I figured out what's wrong here. I think you believe in that dumb**** Keynesian economics bullshit so you think ridiculous spending doesn't matter.

Lol...that's funny. I was wondering why you were struggling with such basic shit.

What problem is our debt causing?

 

[Fishking]

Makes perfect sense. It's as much under taxing as it is overspending. Two variables. It's your characterization that doesn't make sense.

No it isn't. Our government revenues have always gone up, regardless of taxation levels. The only thing that has effected government revenues is economic recession.

 

[vegas giants]

The problem is it FEELS like debt is a problem to some people

Not that it IS a problem

 

[jonny5]

If a country approves spending it should also implicitly approve any borrowing to cover that spending. The US is the only country in the world that doesn’t work like that.

The Republicans literally invented an arbitrary rule just so that they can fight over it.

Ooooh, except the debt ceiling was put in place by democrats in 1917.

But if its all the GOP fault, why didnt democrats get rid of it when they had the chance?

 

[vegas giants]

Ooooh, except the debt ceiling was put in place by democrats in 1917.

But if its all the GOP fault, why didnt democrats get rid of it when they had the chance?

They should. It's pointless

 

[nvflash]

"The validity of the public debt of the United States...shall not be questioned." --Fourteenth Amendment

Next question.

No one is questioning the validity of the debt, and I defy you to find here where anyone has?

What is being questioned is our ability to keep extending that debt into infinity.

 

[vegas giants]

No one is questioning the validity of the debt, and I defy you to find here where anyone has?

What is being questioned is our ability to keep extending that debt into infinity.

There is no question currently or in the near future of default

 

[Citizen]

no, when anyone is
Got now
I hated Obama adding 9 trillion and Trump 7 trillion and I hate Biden's 4.5 trillion

there is no fiscal responsibility anymore

Well, the republicans are in office now. Let’s see if they will prevent a balanced budget that won’t require raising the debt ceiling. But right now we have to raise the debt ceiling to pay the bills we have already made

 

[hecatmoggie]

Well, the republicans are in office now. Let’s see if they will prevent a balanced budget that won’t require raising the debt ceiling. But right now we have to raise the debt ceiling to pay the bills we have already made

that's right as well as figuring out a way to install fiscal responsibility into the Govt

they're going to have to fight hard, Democrats do not want any rules on spending it appears

 

[Cope]

The filibuster.

They should mint a trillion dollar coin. The debt ceiling has zero to do with spending, only paying for items already bought.

I'm sure China would be happy to purchase.

 

[TomFitz]

I see, you think national debt is funny, that the Fed Govt can spend trillions more than it brings in, print trillion in bills and it won't matter

gotcha

we're just on opposite sides then, I'll ever be able to convince you that our trillions in debt matters

I see right wingers who haven’t said a word about the deficit for seven or eight years now, suddenly rediscovering it in the last three weeks.

Since the most relevant metric is debt as a percentage of GDP, the actual number does not matter all that much. As long as it is significantly low enough to insure tha the nation can carry the debt.

You posted a list of countries whose debt to GDP ratio is much higher than that of the US.

The US had a triple A credit rating for nearly a century. That was until the Republicans almost forced the US into default in 2011. In a show of brinksmanship and financial irresponsibility not significantly different from the noises they are making now.

Now, they’re making noises about doing it again. So we’ll have to watch a several months long kabuki where Republicans talk about debt and cuts. Neither of which they cared one whit about two years ago.

And then they’ll raise the debt ceiling.

Because the political cost of not doing so is too great.

Doing away with it altogether would be a better idea. But that will have to wait.

 

[vegas giants]

that's right as well as figuring out a way to install fiscal responsibility into the Govt

they're going to have to fight hard, Democrats do not want any rules on spending it appears

Or Republicans

 

[Cope]

That is a fair point overall…

But putting the nations credit to the sword…

Especially at the whim of the craziest members of Congress, many of whom are your white nationalist fellows, is not a sound fiscal policy to get out of debt.

I agree, crazy folks in charge isn't the answer, which is why a debt ceiling was constructed. If you pass bills to go over the debt ceiling, you need to have a plan in place to pay for it.

That would eliminate the need to raise the ceiling.

 

[nvflash]

There is no question currently or in the near future of default

I'm not sure I take your meaning?

I mean we could default if the debt celling isn't raised, but everyone know that really isn't going to happen.

At current levels, the payments on the debt are about 10% of Federal revenue and that really isn't too bad. Any private business or personal household would be just fine with only 10% of revenue to service debt.


It's just the issue as to how fast the debt is growing while interest rates are raising, and how unforeseen events could drastically cut Federal revenues.

It just makes sense to tackle this now before that is any real danger of default, but it is funny how the GOP only has their "come to Jesus" moments when it's a Democrat in the White House.

 

[Kushinator]

Our national debt begs to differ.

More drivel. Now you've chosen to invoke a fallacy of large numbers as your means of fear mongering. It won't work.

I think you believe in that dumb**** Keynesian economics bullshit so you think ridiculous spending doesn't matter.

Now that's 0-2. Keynesian economics is not about some misdirected notion that ridiculous spending (whatever that means) doesn't matter.

Do you want to try your hand at striking out?

Lol...that's funny. I was wondering why you were struggling with such basic shit.

And you're out!

For the record, your opinion is meaningless because what you consider to be overspending does not matter. It's about as trivial as, "I would never buy that!".

 

[vegas giants]

I'm not sure I take your meaning?

I mean we could default if the debt celling isn't raised, but everyone know that really isn't going to happen.

At current levels, the payments on the debt are about 10% of Federal revenue and that really isn't too bad. Any private business or personal household would be just fine with only 10% of revenue to service debt.


It's just the issue as to how fast the debt is growing while interest rates are raising, and how unforeseen events could drastically cut Federal revenues.

It just makes sense to tackle this now before that is any real danger of default, but it is funny how the GOP only has their "come to Jesus" moments when it's a Democrat in the White House.

Interest rates rising does cause us to pay more on our debt but that is only a problem if interest rates stay higher a long time


When the economy is fragile the worst thing we can do is cut spending

The best way to handle deficits is to cut spending AND raise taxes when the economy is booming


But politics always interferes with that

 

[poweRob]

The debt ceiling is unconstitutional.