Democrats push to eliminate the debt ceiling, allow unlimited government borrowing

[Variant]

The hell with a debt limit. Who needs it. Let’s spend spend spend, I want my free shit. We can deal with the aftermath later. My great great great grandkids can pay off my debt.

The debt limit doesn't reduce spending, it never has. That is done in the budget process. The debt limit merely keeps the government from borrowing to pay for the things that are mandated to be paid for via legislation.

So, right now, Congress is forbidding the government to pay for the things that Congress mandated the government pay for.

 

[MTAtech]

The obvious question here is why didnt they do this the last two years when they had control of congress and the white house? Dems just passed a spending bill a few weeks ago without increasing the debt ceiling to allow debt to pay for it. Normally you could just spend the revenue coming in to pay for it, but Dems passed a couple trillion in new spending this FY, so they already spent the record revenue coming in. They also knew about the debt ceiling for even longer than that since they voted to suspend it last year, and were around when it was raised a decade ago. What did they do last year besides increase the debt to 10 trillion over the previous ceiling?

This would of course be disastrous. We are already paying 500bn a year just to service the existing debt. Removing the limit altogether would remove one ability to limit excessive spending, which would further increase the debt leading to further wasted interest payment and more fiscal crisies, and slow the economy.

MSN

The debt ceiling doesn't limit spending, just the ability to pay for spending that already occurred. What it does do is hurt the country's credit rating, that does increase borrowing costs.

In terms of spending, Biden’s American Rescue Plan expanded the child tax credit for a year and permanently made it fully refundable, meaning that parents receive the money regardless of how much they owe in taxes. Keeping his promises not to raise taxes on anyone making less than $400,000 a year and to get businesses to pay more, Biden raised $300 billion in revenue in the Inflation Reduction Act by placing a new tax on stock buybacks and enacting a minimum tax on big corporations. To the chagrin of tax cheats (and their sympathetic Republican politicians), the law also boosted funding for the Internal Revenue Service to crack down on tax evaders.

None of these were radical changes in the code. More far-reaching plans to increase the individual top marginal tax rate, to boost the corporate tax rate, to equalize tax treatment of capital gains and ordinary income for those making more than $400,000, and to eliminate the step-up basis for the estate tax never passed.

What are the Republicans thinking? Semafor reported, “Kevin McCarthy reportedly promised his party’s conservative hardliners a vote on legislation that would scrap the entire American tax code and replace it with a jumbo-sized national sales tax.”
A mammoth 30 percent sales tax would be grossly regressive, socking it to the same working- and middle-class families Republicans ostensibly worry are paying more at the pump and grocery store because of inflation.

Please Don’t Feed the Debt Scolds​

It’s true that U.S. debt is very large — $31 trillion (said in your best Dr. Evil voice). But America is a big country, so almost every economic number is very large. A better way to think about debt is to ask whether interest payments are a major burden on the budget. In 2011 these payments were 1.47 percent of gross domestic product — half what they had been in the mid-1990s. In 2021 they were 1.51 percent. This number will rise as existing debt is rolled over at higher interest rates, but real net interest — interest payments adjusted for inflation — is likely to remain below 1 percent of G.D.P for the next decade.

 

[BlueTex]

The hell with a debt limit. Who needs it. Let’s spend spend spend, I want my free shit. We can deal with the aftermath later. My great great great grandkids can pay off my debt.

You had no problem with the spend, spend, spend when it was Trump and the GQP...

 

[Fishking]

The hell with a debt limit. Who needs it. Let’s spend spend spend, I want my free shit. We can deal with the aftermath later. My great great great grandkids can pay off my debt.

Agreed. The government should print $5 million for every citizen and make us all rich. Let's do this!

 

[Fishking]

The debt ceiling doesn't limit spending, just the ability to pay for spending that already occurred. What it does do is hurt the country's credit rating, that does increase borrowing costs.

What other mechanism do we have to hold our spending in check, even a little bit, besides out debt ceiling routinely popping up to make politicians give more than a single passing thought to our spending?

 

[Kushinator]

What other mechanism do we have to hold our spending in check, even a little bit, besides out debt ceiling routinely popping up to make politicians give more than a single passing thought to our spending?

The annual budgeting process. Republicans are more than welcome to put forth their own budgeting proposals for FY 2024. FY 2023 has already been signed into law.

 

[multivita-man]

It did. It does. And it always has. And it always should matter, regardless who is president.

But especially now that our debt / GDP ratio is well over 125%, we're in a situation that is not financially sustainable.

We need to balance our budget, period.

We need to raise taxes on people and corporations who can easily pay them - period.

 

[Kushinator]

What other mechanism do we have to hold our spending in check, even a little bit, besides out debt ceiling routinely popping up to make politicians give more than a single passing thought to our spending?

The debt ceiling didn't hold spending in check from 2017 through 2021. Isn't it interesting to note that debt is only an issue when Republicans lose elections?

 

[Fishking]

The annual budgeting process. Republicans are more than welcome to put forth their own budgeting proposals for FY 2024. FY 2023 has already been signed into law.

They obviously don't give a **** about the budgeting process, so that's off the table. The only time that spending comes up as an issue is when it involves the debt ceiling.

 

[Kushinator]

The only time that spending comes up as an issue is when it involves the debt ceiling.

Bullshit. It's when they lose elections.

 

[Fishking]

The debt ceiling didn't hold spending in check from 2017 through 2021. Isn't it interesting to note that debt is only an issue when Republicans lose elections?

That's a false narrative. The debt is an issue at all times, no matter who has won or lost an election.

 

[Jetboogieman]

What other mechanism do we have to hold our spending in check, even a little bit, besides out debt ceiling routinely popping up to make politicians give more than a single passing thought to our spending?

Except that isn’t anything about what it’s actually about.

Everyone knows the number already and they don’t need a debt ceiling to remind them.

That’s why it’s never really mattered it’s there.

It’s seem to have served only to be a battering ram for certain politicians to get concessions by holding the full faith and credit and the US economy of the United States hostage.

Now I know it’s not the easiest thing to get more nuanced subjects through the treacherous world view of white nationalists such as yourself but no one, not even the white nationalist scumbags you support that are willing to blow up the US economy by playing this deranged and dangerous game gives a damn about the debt.

It’s convenient to bring it up when it’s convenient.

 

[Fishking]

Bullshit. It's when they lose elections.

You're not rebutting me. Your whining a bitchy little whine.

 

[Fishking]

It’s seem to have served only to be a battering ram for certain politicians to get concessions by holding the full faith and credit and the US economy of the United States hostage.

Yup...and even in that context, it still forces attention to the budget issue.

 

[Kushinator]

That's a false narrative.

It is exactly what happened. Republicans didn't care about curtailing spending then because they were looking to maintain power via fiscal support for economic growth.

Once the electorate told Trump and his cult to take a hike, the new issue became spending, deficits, and debt... like clockwork.

The debt is an issue at all times, no matter who has won or lost an election.

History proves this is a lie. Republicans didn't care about debt ceilings when they were busy raising government expenditure, while deficits grew every single year.

 

[Kushinator]

You're not rebutting me. Your whining a bitchy little whine.

The facts have shown your position to be that of weakness. Pretending the actions of the Republican party do not matter is just your failed attempt not to acknowledge hypocrisy and partisan rhetoric.

 

[Jetboogieman]

Yup...and even in that context, it still forces attention to the budget issue.

Are white nationalists such as yourself unable to ascertain the debts size without having a mechanism to hold the country hostage?

I can see why the idea is enticing to fascist Trumpists like yourself.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The filibuster.

They should mint a trillion dollar coin. The debt ceiling has zero to do with spending, only paying for items already bought.

That’s not true at all. The debt ceiling is about limiting the amount of debt. The government can acquire.

 

[Citizen]

just read that

liberals will swear this is a great idea - that 33 trillion in debt isn't enough, we need 50 trillion in debt

Only when republicans are in office

 

[Fishking]

Are white nationalists such as yourself unable to ascertain the debts size without having a mechanism to hold the country hostage?

I can see why the idea is enticing to fascist Trumpists like yourself.

A mod calling another poster a white nationalist. How ****ing pathetic is that?

 

[Jetboogieman]

A mod calling another poster a white nationalist. How ****ing pathetic is that?

I’ll just take that as white nationalists such as yourself do not know how to ascertain the size of the national debt without having a mechanism to hold the country hostage.

 

[Fishking]

Are white nationalists such as yourself unable to ascertain the debts size without having a mechanism to hold the country hostage?

I can see why the idea is enticing to fascist Trumpists like yourself.

Your comment literally has nothing to do with what is even being talked about, which is the budget. What the **** does talking about issues with the budget have to do with your bitchy accusations of white nationalism? It's just you writing a piece of shit comment because you have nothing. Go sit in a corner and spend some time in introspection.

 

[Kushinator]

Are white nationalists such as yourself unable to ascertain the debts size without having a mechanism to hold the country hostage?

Him and his fellow white nationalists support partisan terrorism whenever elections don't go their way. Most of these folks believe the red wave did not materialize because democrats rigged certain elections and not others.

 

[Fishking]

I’ll just take that as white nationalists such as yourself do not know how to ascertain the size of the national debt without having a mechanism to hold the country hostage.

You'll take nothing. Shut the **** up.

 

[Kushinator]

You'll take nothing. Shut the **** up.

Someone is angry.

Again, you and your GQP cultists only care about spending, deficits, and debt when the votes don't go your way.