Democracy is not mob rule

[Craig234]

Ahhh...gotcha! The Bill of Rights are individual rights.

In theory, yes, the Bill of Rights is focused on SOME of Americans' individual rights. Hope that helps with something for you?

 

[Antiwar]

With respect:

The highly unequal voting-power that results from the Electoral College often results in the "tyranny of the minority." For example: T**** won the unpopular vote.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Yup and states are going to hold onto their power. Its a fundamental design issue that may not be fixable. But who knows, maybe the interstate voter compact will work out.

Is it really a good idea to give Houston, TX more power than some states?

Those were the realities at the time.

They haven’t changed. We are still a nation of sovereign states.

In computer terms, its an unwillingness to update the a system API to something modern and efficient and being saddled by inefficient processes and overhead (windows basically) so that nothing gets done well on modern hardware.

In computer terms, it’s a desire not to force everyone to replace their hardware just to run the latest bloatware operating system.

 

[soylentgreen]

Huh? Anarchism calls for the abolition of the state, which it holds to be unnecessary, undesirable, and harmful.
Where did I do that?

When you said " without elected representatives as proxies."

To me that sounds as if you are swinging towards an anarchist approach to government. But if I am wrong then elaborate.

 

[Crovax]

Of course there are very good rural people. But, as a whole they are dumb or ignorant. Evidence that they voted for a jackass for president who had no government experience and has been a con-man his entire life. Further evidence, after the con-man lead an insurrection and tried to overthrow the will of the American voter, these same rural people still want him to be the next president.

Some of them , you assume, are good people?

I don't even think you understand the irony of your post.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Why have states at all then, or make every state have an equal population.

Yep, the US Senate would be next on the chopping block as well as the requirement for a supermajority to approve Constitutional amendments.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Wouldn't that make the dems concentrated populations in dense areas, like the West and East coasts, in control of natl elections?

I can't help were people live. I don't see why the population density matters. Would you feel differently if there were the same number of democrats in the country but they were spread out over the entire country evenly? Would they not still "control" the national election by virtue of being a majority? Plus, this is true of every election everywhere ever, but for some reason the logic is only applied to the presidential election. Every election from mayoral to country sheriff is going to have some areas with dense populations of voters and other areas that are more sparsely populated.

It is theoretically possible to win the presidency with 23% of the popular vote. This is insane and we know it. That's why we don't have an EC for any other election nor does any other country.

 

[grip]

When you said " without elected representatives as proxies."

To me that sounds as if you are swinging towards an anarchist approach to government. But if I am wrong then elaborate.

That's what direct democracy is, though I sure didn't call for it. I merely stated what form of gov that is.

 

[Antiwar]

With respect:

Unequal voting-power:

 

[soylentgreen]

That you've completely missed the point isn't surprising.
And if you wish to split hairs about whether representative democracy is or is not "democracy" that's on you.
I already said that Athenian democracy doesn't exist today. Republican party faithful are intent on spreading the lie that "ALL democracy is pure athenian style democracy."
They're fond of phrases like "two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for lunch" and they tie it in with other failed tropes like the notion that America is a christian nation and that the church should guide the country, not the rule of law.

But hey, I'll give all the room you need. America is not a democracy, go for it.
Meanwhile, I'll be preparing to VOTE in November, as it may very well the last time it will have any effect on who gets installed in our Congress.

After this November mid-term election, you may end up being 100 percent correct, but not for the reasons you've presented in this thread.

I did not say representative democracy is not democracy I said pure democracy is a joke not a political term.
You think just a vote makes you a democracy. Rather than what you have, system of governance that allows an elite few to decide who is president or what laws aill stand and which will not.

 

[ttwtt78640]

It is still the wrong approach to a democracy. Top down democracy never works well it is still one person telling others what to think.

A democracy should be approached from bottom going up. By Having town meetings which discus the subject of the meeting and then give a vote on which way to go. That way the people tell the politicians not the politicians tell the people.

That’s why the federal government was supposed to be limited to having a few specific powers and three very distinct branches, but that ship has long since sailed. The POTUS can now make law by EO/EA and state/local governments have far less power.

 

[mrjurrs]

Rural CA voters have the same vote power as urban CA voters.

CA is not a rural state, WY is not an urban state. Nice deflection though.

Repeal the Reapportionment Act of 1929!

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Of course there are very good rural people. But, as a whole they are dumb or ignorant.

Trump was primarily voted in by White urban voters. Obviously rural areas are going to lean red still, but to write them all off is literally classism.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I did not say representative democracy is not democracy I said pure democracy is a joke not a political term.
You think just a vote makes you a democracy. Rather than what you have, system of governance that allows an elite few to decide who is president or what laws aill stand and which will not.

Completely missing the entire point again.
It's understandable, given that you don't live here and aren't aware of what's happening as regards our democracy under attack, perhaps for the final time.
Carry on.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Is it really a good idea to give Houston, TX more power than some states?

yes

They haven’t changed. We are still a nation of sovereign states.

To some legal extent, but it was largely given up as a condition of joining the country.

In computer terms, it’s a desire not to force everyone to replace their hardware just to run the latest bloatware operating system.

I see we are jumping into the apple realm now.

 

[grip]

I can't help were people live. I don't see why the population density matters. Would you feel differently if there were the same number of democrats in the country but they were spread out over the entire country evenly? Would they not still "control" the national election by virtue of being a majority? Plus, this is true of every election everywhere ever, but for some reason the logic is only applied to the presidential election. Every election from mayoral to country sheriff is going to have some areas with dense populations of voters and other areas that are more sparsely populated.

It is theoretically possible to win the presidency with 23% of the popular vote. This is insane and we know it. That's why we don't have an EC for any other election nor does any other country.

Without some sort of way of evening that out, we end up with little representation for a fair amount of the geographical US. The majority rule is one of the current hot button issues that's plaguing our system. The popular vote should be close to the electoral winner, not completely lopsided. It would be fairer if there was a way to give each method (voters & electorates) some influence over who is elected.

 

[Crovax]

CA is not a rural state, WY is not an urban state. Nice deflection though.

Repeal the Reapportionment Act of 1929!

So there are no rural inhabitants of CA? And there are no urban inhabitants of WV?

 

[Phys251]

Pure democracy aka "mob rule" was tried 2500 years ago in Athens.
That was the first and last time.

Democracy, as it is known in the years since that failed Athenian experiment, is REPRESENTATIVE democracy, where city, county, state and congress are elected by democratic means.
The mob rule trope is yet another BIG LIE peddled by fascist Republicans.

It is becoming apparent that Republicans have latched onto the "Big Lie" methodology for nearly everything in the last forty years.
Whether it is election fraud, unfunded liabilities, mob rule, fascism being liberal, you name it and there's a Republican Big Lie about it.

Righties attack democracy because they hate it. They want a fascist system, and this extremist SCOTUS is giving it to them.

 

[Crovax]

yes

Clearly you have never been to Houston

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Wouldn't that make the dems concentrated populations in dense areas, like the West and East coasts, in control of natl elections?

We can KEEP the Electoral College however when it exists ALONGSIDE and HAND IN HAND WITH Citizens United, Buckley v. Valeo and McCutcheon v. FEC it becomes a poisonous moat into which ALL democratic efforts are tossed.
My proposal is, they get to pick and keep ONE only, CU, McCutcheon, Buckley or the EC, one ONLY.
They do NOT get to have ALL FOUR together, working as a unit, to blot OUT democracy...which is what's happening now.
Oh and, the Voting Rights Act gets 100% reinstated immediately.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Clearly you have never been to Houston

I've been through the airport catching a flight, that's my full exposure to the place.

 

[Antiwar]

With respect:

Republicans love the unequal voting-power of the Electoral College because they've been the only winners of the unpopular vote.

 

[ttwtt78640]

If they reside in the same state then their votes are equal. Why do you feel that this is a rural vs urban thing? Projection? What happened to make you dislike rural people?

They refuse to consistently vote blue.

 

[What if...?]

Tell me how many small states would a presidential campaign include if there was just a popular vote and then try again to tell me ot wouldn't disenfranchise the smaller states.

But you’re fine with them choosing presidents themselves as the minority. Having votes that equal many votes from other states.

That’s what proves the crocodile tears.

The fact you’re fine with whatever gives you power. If you advocated some solution that eliminated the disparity in population you would be more credible. But you just claim the minority should be able to override the majority because it is a minority. The founders didn’t want that either.

 

[RedFishBlueFish]

Trump was primarily voted in by White urban voters. Obviously rural areas are going to lean red still, but to write them all off is literally classism.

Perhaps you haven't seen these maps of the 2016 elections? Republicans pasted them everywhere after the 2016 election to show that "America" voted for Trump. As if the overwhelming amount of red compensated for the fact that Trump lost the popular vote.