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Deaths from COVID-19 overblown. Need help with research

Paradoxical

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I only have so many hours in a day and would like those interested in truth to assist me if they would be so kind. Most of you already know that the federal government is classifying the deaths of patients infected with the coronavirus as COVID-19 deaths, regardless of any underlying health issues that could have contributed to the loss of someone's life.

Dr. Deborah Birx, the response coordinator for the White House coronavirus task force, said the federal government is continuing to count the suspected COVID-19 deaths, despite other nations doing the opposite. Here is the link:

Birx says government is classifying all deaths of patients with coronavirus as '''COVID-19''' deaths, regardless of cause | Fox News

I don't want to make this OP overly long by rehashing the link, but suffice to say that they are just taking the word of the doctors all over the United States that a death was due to COVID-19 and are assuming that tests are being done and say that they understand autopsies probably aren't being conducted. So, ANY preexisting condition is ignored. If someone is in their late 70s or 80s and has been in and out of the hospital for decades is brought into the emergency room, he or she is apparently automatically listed as having died from the Corona Visis, aka: WuFlu. Hospitals are empty of regular patients. Apparently people are deciding NOT to die right now from heart attacks, strokes, kidney disease because they want to save the hospital beds for COVID-19 patients.

I went to the CDC site and it isn't much help, either. Their site is just for guidance and not binding. No one will check to see if a patient really died from the WuFlu or something else. It appears that as long as there was the slightest hint of the WuFlu they encourage the doctor to show it that way.

COVID-19 Guidance Postmortem Specimens | CDC

Medical examiners, coroners, and other healthcare professionals should use their judgment to determine if a decedent had signs and symptoms compatible with COVID-19 during life and whether postmortem testing should be pursued. Most patients with confirmed COVID-19 have developed fever and/or symptoms of acute respiratory illness (e.g., cough, difficulty breathing). There are epidemiologic factors that may also help guide decisions about COVID-19 testing, such as documented COVID-19 infections in a jurisdiction, known community transmission, contact with a known COVID-19 case, or being a part of a cluster of respiratory illness in a closed setting (e.g., a long-term care facility). Testing for other causes of respiratory illness (e.g., influenza) is strongly encouraged.

Thus, it would appear that the numbers are blown up for COVID-19 but what I want to know is by how much? Some sites suggest that if these preexisting conditions weren't included (like other countries DON'T include) the ACTUAL deaths directly attributed to the WuFlu would be HALF what they are showing or less.

What I would like the readers to do is to research this and see if I am right or off base here. Can we find out for instance, how many LESS deaths are being reported now for regular diseases like kidney failure, stoke, diabetes, obesity, lung disease, cancer? Is that information available anywhere? Thanks for your help. I appreciate it. This valuable research could be utilized to examine the actual extent of the problem so that all of us can be guided accordingly. eg., the death rate is show at 18,000 but is it really 9,000 or 7,000 or ?
 
More? You are tenacious; I'll give you that. Reminds me of the ACME anvil/Wile E. Coyote meme from another thread. Paradoxical never dies. :mrgreen:

(Good luck getting people to do your work for you. I'd help, but somehow I have a feeling your check will bounce, if it's even in the mail to begin with. Sorry. I'm a capitalist.)
 
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I only have so many hours in a day and would like those interested in truth to assist me if they would be so kind. Most of you already know that the federal government is classifying the deaths of patients infected with the coronavirus as COVID-19 deaths, regardless of any underlying health issues that could have contributed to the loss of someone's life.

Dr. Deborah Birx, the response coordinator for the White House coronavirus task force, said the federal government is continuing to count the suspected COVID-19 deaths, despite other nations doing the opposite. Here is the link:

Birx says government is classifying all deaths of patients with coronavirus as '''COVID-19''' deaths, regardless of cause | Fox News

I don't want to make this OP overly long by rehashing the link, but suffice to say that they are just taking the word of the doctors all over the United States that a death was due to COVID-19 and are assuming that tests are being done and say that they understand autopsies probably aren't being conducted. So, ANY preexisting condition is ignored. If someone is in their late 70s or 80s and has been in and out of the hospital for decades is brought into the emergency room, he or she is apparently automatically listed as having died from the Corona Visis, aka: WuFlu. Hospitals are empty of regular patients. Apparently people are deciding NOT to die right now from heart attacks, strokes, kidney disease because they want to save the hospital beds for COVID-19 patients.

I went to the CDC site and it isn't much help, either. Their site is just for guidance and not binding. No one will check to see if a patient really died from the WuFlu or something else. It appears that as long as there was the slightest hint of the WuFlu they encourage the doctor to show it that way.




COVID-19 Guidance Postmortem Specimens | CDC



Thus, it would appear that the numbers are blown up for COVID-19 but what I want to know is by how much? Some sites suggest that if these preexisting conditions weren't included (like other countries DON'T include) the ACTUAL deaths directly attributed to the WuFlu would be HALF what they are showing or less.

What I would like the readers to do is to research this and see if I am right or off base here. Can we find out for instance, how many LESS deaths are being reported now for regular diseases like kidney failure, stoke, diabetes, obesity, lung disease, cancer? Is that information available anywhere? Thanks for your help. I appreciate it. This valuable research could be utilized to examine the actual extent of the problem so that all of us can be guided accordingly. eg., the death rate is show at 18,000 but is it really 9,000 or 7,000 or ?

You are operating under the assumption that doctors are too stupid to figure out how their patients died, that all of them are that stupid and you're the only one to ever realize it's possible for a patient to have an underlying condition that makes COVID-19 more deadly.

You are basing this on no evidence whatsoever.

You are straight up lying about people being "automatically" listed as having died from COVID-19. YOUR OWN LINK DISPROVES THIS. Doctors use their judgment. Not automatic.

You are also straight up lying about hospitals "being empty of regular patients." In fact, first responders in NYC are reporting a "crazy increase" in cardiac events. They're probably COVID-19 related, but haven't been tested.
First responders suspect "crazy increase in cardiac deaths" in NYC is linked to COVID-19 | Salon.com

The evidence demonstrates the opposite of your hypothesis. You started with a conclusion and are desperately trying to find evidence to support it. It's backwards. You should reflect on your real motivations.
 
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this research will end up on Facebook (from Susan) and...

FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:
 
"I think the doctors are wrong and I need somebody to prove it for me."
 
I only have so many hours in a day and would like those interested in truth to assist me if they would be so kind. Most of you already know that the federal government is classifying the deaths of patients infected with the coronavirus as COVID-19 deaths, regardless of any underlying health issues that could have contributed to the loss of someone's life.

Dr. Deborah Birx, the response coordinator for the White House coronavirus task force, said the federal government is continuing to count the suspected COVID-19 deaths, despite other nations doing the opposite. Here is the link:

Birx says government is classifying all deaths of patients with coronavirus as '''COVID-19''' deaths, regardless of cause | Fox News

I don't want to make this OP overly long by rehashing the link, but suffice to say that they are just taking the word of the doctors all over the United States that a death was due to COVID-19 and are assuming that tests are being done and say that they understand autopsies probably aren't being conducted. So, ANY preexisting condition is ignored. If someone is in their late 70s or 80s and has been in and out of the hospital for decades is brought into the emergency room, he or she is apparently automatically listed as having died from the Corona Visis, aka: WuFlu. Hospitals are empty of regular patients. Apparently people are deciding NOT to die right now from heart attacks, strokes, kidney disease because they want to save the hospital beds for COVID-19 patients.

I went to the CDC site and it isn't much help, either. Their site is just for guidance and not binding. No one will check to see if a patient really died from the WuFlu or something else. It appears that as long as there was the slightest hint of the WuFlu they encourage the doctor to show it that way.

COVID-19 Guidance Postmortem Specimens | CDC



Thus, it would appear that the numbers are blown up for COVID-19 but what I want to know is by how much? Some sites suggest that if these preexisting conditions weren't included (like other countries DON'T include) the ACTUAL deaths directly attributed to the WuFlu would be HALF what they are showing or less.

What I would like the readers to do is to research this and see if I am right or off base here. Can we find out for instance, how many LESS deaths are being reported now for regular diseases like kidney failure, stoke, diabetes, obesity, lung disease, cancer? Is that information available anywhere? Thanks for your help. I appreciate it. This valuable research could be utilized to examine the actual extent of the problem so that all of us can be guided accordingly. eg., the death rate is show at 18,000 but is it really 9,000 or 7,000 or ?

What do you think of these number?

TAHFGp2.png
 
You are operating under the assumption that doctors are too stupid to figure out how their patients died, that all of them are that stupid and you're the only one to ever realize it's possible for a patient to have an underlying condition that makes COVID more deadly.

You are basing this on no evidence whatsoever.

Nope. If a doctor knows there is the WuFlu going around and some 70-80 year old was bedridden with cancer and caught the Wu-Flu, he can put that down as the cause of death. I am looking for SERIOUS researchers here and not rabble rousers claiming that doctors are beyond scrutiny and wouldn't take the quick and easy route. I don't need people like you coming in and derailing a serious thread. We know the numbers are blown up. I want researchers, REAL news seekers and reporters instead of clowns like Tapper and Lemon, to find out HOW MUCH the numbers are blown up.
 
I only have so many hours in a day and would like those interested in truth to assist me if they would be so kind. Most of you already know that the federal government is classifying the deaths of patients infected with the coronavirus as COVID-19 deaths, regardless of any underlying health issues that could have contributed to the loss of someone's life.

You started the OP based on a lie. That's just false, untrue. For starters, the "federal government" doesn't classify deaths. That's done by thousands of physicians in clinics and hospitals.

And if I shoot you in the heart with a .44 magnum to steal your car, the gunshot is treated as the cause of death even if you've had multiple heart surgeries, and I will be charged with murder. For some reason you insist that in that case the cause of death isn't the gunshot wound to the heart, but the underlying heart conditions. Odd!

Defense attorney in this world of yours: "Members of the jury, this lady was old and worthless and had serious heart conditions and prolly would have died anyway real soon, so it's really not fair to charge my client with murder. All he did was speed the process along by a couple of days or weeks! You must find him INNOCENT!!"
 
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Nope. If a doctor knows there is the WuFlu going around and some 70-80 year old was bedridden with cancer and caught the Wu-Flu, he can put that down as the cause of death. I am looking for SERIOUS researchers here and not rabble rousers claiming that doctors are beyond scrutiny and wouldn't take the quick and easy route. I don't need people like you coming in and derailing a serious thread. We know the numbers are blown up. I want researchers, REAL news seekers and reporters instead of clowns like Tapper and Lemon, to find out HOW MUCH the numbers are blown up.

You started with the conclusion and are trying to find evidence to support it. It's backwards. Doctors are smart enough to figure out cause of death. Your own link disproves your "automatic" claims.
NYC is seeing an INCREASE in cardiac events. Suspected to be COVID-19 related, but not tested.
First responders suspect "crazy increase in cardiac deaths" in NYC is linked to COVID-19 | Salon.com

The evidence supports the opposite of your conclusion. Coronavirus events are being undercounted, not overcounted.
 
More? You are tenacious; I'll give you that. Reminds me of the ACME anvil/Wile E. Coyote meme from another thread. Paradoxical never dies. :mrgreen:

(Good luck getting people to do your work for you. I'd help, but somehow I have a feeling your check will bounce, if it's even in the mail to begin with. Sorry. I'm a capitalist.)

So let me ask you a question. If you've got Class IV CHF and you're on hospice care. Your nurse comes by to check on you and you contract CV-19. Should your death be classified as being due to CV-19 or "complications related to CHF"?
 
Dr. Deborah Birx, the response coordinator for the White House coronavirus task force, said the federal government is continuing to count the suspected COVID-19 deaths, despite other nations doing the opposite. Here is the link:

Birx says government is classifying all deaths of patients with coronavirus as '''COVID-19''' deaths, regardless of cause | Fox News

FOX says jump, and you Trumpers say how high? You're right on time. I posted this article yesterday.

Odd, it says the opposite of what you claim Dr. Birx and Dr. Fauci say.....

A Fox News Conspiracy—Are Coronavirus Death Numbers Inflated?—Attacked By Fauci, Birx
 
More? You are tenacious; I'll give you that. Reminds me of the ACME anvil/Wile E. Coyote meme from another thread. Paradoxical never dies. :mrgreen:

(Good luck getting people to do your work for you. I'd help, but somehow I have a feeling your check will bounce, if it's even in the mail to begin with. Sorry. I'm a capitalist.)

OK. I'll chalk you up as one who is not interested in the real facts.
 
OK. I'll chalk you up as one who is not interested in the real facts.

Real facts? You haven't presented any facts! You started with a conclusion and are asking people to find facts for you.
 
Nope. If a doctor knows there is the WuFlu going around and some 70-80 year old was bedridden with cancer and caught the Wu-Flu, he can put that down as the cause of death. I am looking for SERIOUS researchers here and not rabble rousers claiming that doctors are beyond scrutiny and wouldn't take the quick and easy route. I don't need people like you coming in and derailing a serious thread. We know the numbers are blown up. I want researchers, REAL news seekers and reporters instead of clowns like Tapper and Lemon, to find out HOW MUCH the numbers are blown up.

The question I would ask is there a benefit for a physician - and associated hospital, health system- to list the cause of death as due to the virus?
 
OK. I'll chalk you up as one who is not interested in the real facts.

:lamo

I'll chalk you up to being a pencil whupping deadbeat employer.

Get your own facts. Because...how'd it go again...oh yeah...I only have so many hours in a day.

Pay up, weasel. In advance.
 
So let me ask you a question. If you've got Class IV CHF and you're on hospice care. Your nurse comes by to check on you and you contract CV-19. Should your death be classified as being due to CV-19 or "complications related to CHF"?

Let me ask you a question. If the nurse instead of giving her CV19 that tips her over the edge smothers her and kills her with a pillow. Is that act the cause of death or the CHF?
 
I didn't listen to it yesterday, but the radio station I normally listen to when in the car two days ago gave the Oregon deaths for the day before. It was 4 or 5 deaths, all of them had severe underlying conditions and were in the age range of 74 to 91.

Every day they report the new deaths. Same thing. People who were already close to death.
 
So let me ask you a question. If you've got Class IV CHF and you're on hospice care. Your nurse comes by to check on you and you contract CV-19. Should your death be classified as being due to CV-19 or "complications related to CHF"?

I'm not a doctor. You're not a doctor. A doctor would not entertain inane hypotheticals, on either end. A doctor would neither ask nor answer such a ridiculous question. Doctors are smart. I'm on their side.
 
"I think the doctors are wrong and I need somebody to prove it for me."

he should just wait for Rush and Sean. they will eventually call all doctors (they don't agree with) liars and will use every biased report available.
 
I'm not a doctor. You're not a doctor. A doctor would not entertain inane hypotheticals, on either end. A doctor would neither ask nor answer such a ridiculous question. Doctors are smart. I'm on their side.

It's all a giant conspiracy.
 
I only have so many hours in a day and would like those interested in truth to assist me if they would be so kind. Most of you already know that the federal government is classifying the deaths of patients infected with the coronavirus as COVID-19 deaths, regardless of any underlying health issues that could have contributed to the loss of someone's life.

Dr. Deborah Birx, the response coordinator for the White House coronavirus task force, said the federal government is continuing to count the suspected COVID-19 deaths, despite other nations doing the opposite. Here is the link:

Birx says government is classifying all deaths of patients with coronavirus as '''COVID-19''' deaths, regardless of cause | Fox News

I don't want to make this OP overly long by rehashing the link, but suffice to say that they are just taking the word of the doctors all over the United States that a death was due to COVID-19 and are assuming that tests are being done and say that they understand autopsies probably aren't being conducted. So, ANY preexisting condition is ignored. If someone is in their late 70s or 80s and has been in and out of the hospital for decades is brought into the emergency room, he or she is apparently automatically listed as having died from the Corona Visis, aka: WuFlu. Hospitals are empty of regular patients. Apparently people are deciding NOT to die right now from heart attacks, strokes, kidney disease because they want to save the hospital beds for COVID-19 patients.

I went to the CDC site and it isn't much help, either. Their site is just for guidance and not binding. No one will check to see if a patient really died from the WuFlu or something else. It appears that as long as there was the slightest hint of the WuFlu they encourage the doctor to show it that way.

COVID-19 Guidance Postmortem Specimens | CDC



Thus, it would appear that the numbers are blown up for COVID-19 but what I want to know is by how much? Some sites suggest that if these preexisting conditions weren't included (like other countries DON'T include) the ACTUAL deaths directly attributed to the WuFlu would be HALF what they are showing or less.

What I would like the readers to do is to research this and see if I am right or off base here. Can we find out for instance, how many LESS deaths are being reported now for regular diseases like kidney failure, stoke, diabetes, obesity, lung disease, cancer? Is that information available anywhere? Thanks for your help. I appreciate it. This valuable research could be utilized to examine the actual extent of the problem so that all of us can be guided accordingly. eg., the death rate is show at 18,000 but is it really 9,000 or 7,000 or ?

So let's say I have high blood pressure and with medication it's fine. I catch the corona virus and die. Are you saying my high blood pressure killed me? Sounds to me like another reach to say this is no big thing, common cold.
 
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