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Day 14, Closing Arguments - Defense (Friday 7/12) [W:252]

Re: Day 14, Closing Arguments - Defense (Friday 7/12)

buck said:
I think you are misunderstanding what I have said. I have always maintained that he originally got out of the car to follow Trayvon.
The wind noise starts and he acknowledges that he is following in the NEN call. However, once advised that it wasn't necessary, he acknowledged and stopped following.
At that point, as he was already out, he either figured he'd look for a street sign on TT then/or went to locate an address on the street he knew the name of.
While I believe he originally got out of his car to follow, the rest of his story is likely true and makes perfect sense when taken into context of the entire NEN call.
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That's not GZ's story.
 
Re: Day 14, Closing Arguments - Defense (Friday 7/12)

Oceandan said:
Can we agree it's intellectually dishonest?
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<bao>That's an opinion. I do not have much of an opinion about it. I can see how someone could reach that conclusion. </bao>
 
Re: Day 14, Closing Arguments - Defense (Friday 7/12)

buck said:
I think you are misunderstanding what I have said. I have always maintained that he originally got out of the car to follow Trayvon.

The wind noise starts and he acknowledges that he is following in the NEN call. However, once advised that it wasn't necessary, he acknowledged and stopped following.

At that point, as he was already out, he either figured he'd look for a street sign on TT then/or went to locate an address on the street he knew the name of.

While I believe he originally got out of his car to follow, the rest of his story is likely true and makes perfect sense when taken into context of the entire NEN call.
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The wind was blowing from the north at 7 mph.. Once George walked between the buildings he may not have had any wind noises.

George was looking for TM.. He simply lied to NEN.
 
Re: Day 14, Closing Arguments - Defense (Friday 7/12)

sharon said:
The wind was blowing from the north at 7 mph.. Once George walked between the buildings he may not have had any wind noises.

George was looking for TM.. He simply lied to NEN.
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Any evidence that he lied beyond a reasonable doubt?
 
Re: Day 14, Closing Arguments - Defense (Friday 7/12)

I just can't seem to wrap my mind around the "he lied" plot. I mean if his intent was to "hunt down and shoot" TM, just hang up with NEN, draw your weapon and go shoot him in the back, claim he was going for a gun. It's the easiest self defense to use. Why take a beating?, why yell for help?, why wait til TM is on top when the same people claim he couldn't have reached his gun?

BTW, I'm slightly overweight, and an old fart, let's have a wrestling match where you mount me and are giving me a mma style ground and pound, let's see if I can "clear leather" from an inside the waist band holster. That argument is preposterous. It clearly demonstrates one's lack of intelligence regarding firearms and holsters. Saying his firearm wouldn't be exposed is another less than intelligent mantra.
 
Re: Day 14, Closing Arguments - Defense (Friday 7/12)

Simon W. Moon said:
I think the phrase in those instances is tried "as an adult". Which, imho, highlights the distinction that the person is not an adult. Otherwise, why wouldn't they just be tried? That's how we say it when it is an adult. We just say he was tried. But if the person is not an adult, we tried "as an adult".
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Excellent post Simon.

The point I was driving at is the state will play the "child" card when it is convenient for them and then tomorrow, try another 'child," the same age, as an adult.

Knowing this deflates the state's emotional appeal to the jury to look upon TM as a "child." For, I assure you, if TM was the one doing the killing, the state would then be trying him as an adult. Can't really have both ways can they? Yes. Yes they can.
 
Re: Day 14, Closing Arguments - Defense (Friday 7/12)

One of the things I believe has been completely missed is that during the NEN call - the operator asked ZM twice "where TM was now".
As a neighborhood watch guy he felt obligated to find out, thus he got out of his car. Then he was told he didn't need to follow. I believe that ZM only was simply trying to find out where he was to give the police good directions when they showed up. Then the young adult jumped him.

If he was a 'wanna be' cop would he not have drawn his weapon much earlier during the altercation? Even before screaming for help. Plus, the first thing he said to the cops was 'I was yelling for help and no one came." He was out of options and feared for his life.
 
Re: Day 14, Closing Arguments - Defense (Friday 7/12)

justabubba said:
easier yet listening to his NEN calls to recognize he identifies location by landmarks rather than street names
during the call about martin he used the club house as the landmark
fabricate your opinions/beliefs all you want but you cannot alter the facts
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Like the front gate?

Like the road you come in on through the front gate?
 
Re: Day 14, Closing Arguments - Defense (Friday 7/12)

Schweddy said:
One of the things I believe has been completely missed is that during the NEN call - the operator asked ZM twice "where TM was now".
As a neighborhood watch guy he felt obligated to find out, thus he got out of his car. Then he was told he didn't need to follow. I believe that ZM only was simply trying to find out where he was to give the police good directions when they showed up. Then the young adult jumped him.

If he was a 'wanna be' cop would he not have drawn his weapon much earlier during the altercation? Even before screaming for help. Plus, the first thing he said to the cops was 'I was yelling for help and no one came." He was out of options and feared for his life.
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Nice to see you visiting the insane asylum with the rest of us. ;)
 
Re: Day 14, Closing Arguments - Defense (Friday 7/12)

sharon said:
The wind was blowing from the north at 7 mph.. Once George walked between the buildings he may not have had any wind noises.

George was looking for TM.. He simply lied to NEN.
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I did notice wind noises on the walkthrough video - and omara did bring that up in closing - and I know they were not running in that video.
 
Re: Day 14, Closing Arguments - Defense (Friday 7/12)

Oceandan said:
ROTFLOL, what garbage!!! Why in this DIATRIBE would you proffer ONLY information from GZ's past while LYING blatantly about TM's????? TM was ONLY in Sanford because he was REPEATEDLY expelled from school. At LEAST ONE of those was for FIGHTING!! Drugs, stolen property in his backpack, burglary tools in his back pack.

LOL But you just go ahead and keep repeating your personal mantra. You just keep TELLING yourself over and over you REALLY want to find out what happened, by continuing to IGNORE facts from TM but wanting to put a spotlight on everything GZ.

Yep!!!!! You're honest.
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You gotta cite for m being expelled/suspended for fighting?

It would actually change my position, but since I've never heard of it and its the kind of theing the pro Z side would be trumpeting from the hilltops I doubt it exists.
 
Re: Day 14, Closing Arguments - Defense (Friday 7/12)

justabubba said:
please share the cite which documents that GEORGE zimmerman lied to the court regarding the bail hearing or anything else
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Here's a site with transcripts of the jail calls when Z was in on the bail thing:

Wife to Zimmerman: You’re gonna have a great life - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com

Read them.

Read about how they were clearing out any account Z had access to. Putting tens of thousands in safe deposit boxes. Only moving less than 10k at a time.

Read about how the money they "only believed was for his defense" was used to pay off their bills.

Then look at page twelve of the fifth one where Z instructs her to pay a bondsman ten percent if the new bail is over 50k. And Shellie saying that's what the moneys for.

Then come back and look me in the LED eye and tell me they didn't know the money could be used for bail. That they didn't think the money could be used for anything but Zs defense.

There's even some interesting stuff regarding the extra passport, but I'm too lazy to sleuth.
 
Re: Day 14, Closing Arguments - Defense (Friday 7/12)

What if...? said:
Here's a site with transcripts of the jail calls when Z was in on the bail thing:

Wife to Zimmerman: You’re gonna have a great life - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com

Read them.

Read about how they were clearing out any account Z had access to. Putting tens of thousands in safe deposit boxes. Only moving less than 10k at a time.

Read about how the money they "only believed was for his defense" was used to pay off their bills.

Then look at page twelve of the fifth one where Z instructs her to pay a bondsman ten percent if the new bail is over 50k. And Shellie saying that's what the moneys for.

Then come back and look me in the LED eye and tell me they didn't know the money could be used for bail. That they didn't think the money could be used for anything but Zs defense.

There's even some interesting stuff regarding the extra passport, but I'm too lazy to sleuth.
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here was my challenge
it was to show us any instance, with cite, to document ANY instance where GEORGE zimmerman lied to the court about his bail, finncial circumstance or any other thing
thus far you have failed to meet the challenge
which causes you to be unable to HONESTLY post that GEORGE zimmerman lied to the court
 
Re: Day 14, Closing Arguments - Defense (Friday 7/12)

What if...? said:
You gotta cite for m being expelled/suspended for fighting?

It would actually change my position, but since I've never heard of it and its the kind of theing the pro Z side would be trumpeting from the hilltops I doubt it exists.
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I cannot find the original article and after searching again, it appears as if I'm wrong. He was expelled three times, graffiti, truancy and drugs.

He texted about the fight and claimed the guy would have to face TM again. He also had a twitter account with the handle "No_Limit_N++++" on which a cousin tweeted "Yu ain't tell me yu swung on a bus driver"

Trayvon Martin case: He was suspended three times and caught with 'burglary tool' | Mail Online

http://communities.washingtontimes....n-martins-legal-troubles-reportedly-covered-/
 
I honestly don't see how George can be convicted. There is just too much evidence than he was acting in self-defense. Either the jurors are dumber than rocks, or biased jurors sneaked in and will convict George based on their emotions.
 
Watertaco said:
I honestly don't see how George can be convicted. There is just too much evidence than he was acting in self-defense. Either the jurors are dumber than rocks, or biased jurors sneaked in and will convict George based on their emotions.
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I can't imagine a scenario in which all 6 jurors (which I still find strange, considering NC cases have 12 jurors) could possibly determine that he didn't act in self defense.

If what you say in the last sentence of your statement has occurred, surely we are looking at a hung jury (funny statement for a jury of all women... yes I went there).
 
Caine said:
I can't imagine a scenario in which all 6 jurors (which I still find strange, considering NC cases have 12 jurors) could possibly determine that he didn't act in self defense.

If what you say in the last sentence of your statement has occurred, surely we are looking at a hung jury (funny statement for a jury of all women... yes I went there).
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What are you trying to imply? lol
 
Caine said:
In which part????
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(funny statement for a jury of all women... yes I went there)

I have no idea what you are trying to imply? Hung jury? What does that have to do with women?
 
Watertaco said:
(funny statement for a jury of all women... yes I went there)

I have no idea what you are trying to imply? Hung jury? What does that have to do with women?
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If a man is "Hung"..........
 
Re: Day 14, Closing Arguments - Defense (Friday 7/12)

ttwtt78640 said:
Not a problem:

Weed, fights and guns: Trayvon Martin’s text messages released - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com
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Just a heads up that I'm not conceding this point.

Looking for the actual texts I read a number of articles, then when I found them discovered that the media ****ed up good. They're hard to parse and some almost impossible to read (which is odd in this day and age. Wouldn't an IT guy extracting the bin file provide digital copies and not poor photocopies? Anyway...

More than one misattribition of statements to M that were actually received texts, etc.

LSS, I am now of the opinion the pross should have allowed them. Taken as a whole I don't think they would paint the picture to a jury with mothers on it the defense hoped for. The texts certainly don't paint the picture of a "monster".

Even the one where he says he was suspended for fighting is suspect. Because he apparently tells the same person he is at work and getting off early to see them. And I've never heard M had a job. Its a girl who goes to another school, apparently. So he's apparently lying to HER about one or the other or both.

I'm workin up a post, maybe a thread if there isn't already one on the subject.

Watching connors testimony next.

The raw texts are here:

Trayvon Text Messages – George Zimmerman Defense Discovery 3rd Supplemental | The Last Refuge
 
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