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Could this be true about the Roe decision?

gbg3 said:
And what is it that makes you think that?
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Dallas Morning News Says:

A leaked draft of the U.S. Supreme Court’s forthcoming opinion on abortion says that the rights to gay marriage and same-sex partner intimacy may be safe — but only for now.
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"For now" being the key word. Abortion was safe for 50 years, until a right-wing radical court got ahold of it. They are dismantling 50 year old settled case law. Don't think for one minute that they will have issue going after the Obergefell v. Hodges decision. It's only 7 years old. After that? Loving v. Virginia.

All bets are off with these people now. They can do or say anything they choose. There's no one to stop them from throwing meat to their rabid base.
 
joluoto said:
It's on the Conservative wish list, and just like abortion the Supremes could say it's up to the States to decide if they want to restict marriage or not.
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So it should be up to the states whether on not there is equal protection under the law? When one party controls the state, citizens get certain rights and when another party controls the the state, the rights are denied, and they should just go back and forth without any law ever actually being established. The law book is just fluid. That. Is. Insane.
 
Exactice said:
What frustrates me is that I can be a conservative with some common sense.

The same goes with a Liberal with conservative values. ITS NOT 2 sides of a coin. You CAN be a responsible blend of BOTH.


I can be Pro Choice, but also understand, that we are yelling and screaming for the worse reason and extreme dumb reasons.

Killing babies can be stopped by proper education and making well informed decision about intercourse, and NOT getting pregnant in the first place.

Your body, your choice, Heck YES. I agree. So dont have unprotected sex with a person you don't want, intend, or potentially want a child with. This then avoids the need to have an abortion in the first place and having to make a stressful decision.

With that, Mistakes and unforeseen circumstances still occur, BUT if we educate better and change the "culture" this would reduce BOTH sides of the extreme....Why do we have to go ONE full way versus addressing it with basic common sense.... I just dont understand.
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What are conservatives values? All you ever see from them is me me me. What else do they stand for? What has republicans done? You get the BS slogans "small government' , "freedoms", and other BS slogans but what they really mean is government the way I and only I want it, freedoms for only me. ANd any fiscal conservatism went out the window a long time ago. Conservatives don't give a shit about spending, just when dems do it.

And what is a single conservative thing republicans have done? They cut taxes, start wars and run up bigger deficits, and pass bigoted and anti abortion laws. Nothing else

Conservatives appear to mean I want government to spend on only things I want, I want rights but only for me or rights I like, everything is the fault of liberals, immigrants, people of color. What is a single thing republicans have done or proposed? It's nothing but tax cuts for rich, reduced regulations to make the rich weatlhier, and dumb hateful laws to pander to their taliban base
 
Bullseye said:
Not if they never had the in the first place.
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Ah, but they did have them. This is the first time in history the Supreme Court will revoke a right that it affirmed, and re-affirmed.
 
uptower said:
Who will then be allowed to takes rights away from women. Same thing.
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And in some cases criminalizing those who go to other states for the procedure.

Gobsmacked at how many people are glossing that over. You can tell the ones who don't bother paying attention, because they are the ones saying, "Just go to another state!" :rolleyes:
 
gbg3 said:
Specifically, which conservatives in the House, Senate, or serving as Governor - is it on? My point is I think you're just inserting unnecessary drama.
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Stop it. You know damn well that we wouldn't even know that Roe v. Wade was on the chopping block without a leak. We don't know what they do or say behind closed doors, and they like it that way. A lot easier to hide their dirty deeds.
 
Atreus21 said:
Not the SCOTUS. The SCOTUS had no business fabricating a right to an abortion, and if Roe is overturned they have corrected that at last.
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So you have just proven that you don't understand Roe v. Wade.

Nice to know where we stand with you.
 
Exactice said:
"Teen sex is normal"

This is a question of culture? Normal for who? I dont consider it normal. I accept it happens, but I do not accept it as normal. Nor would I advocate or allow it as normal?

Women have been aborting fetuses forever, yes I agree. But again the reasons are different now in the 21st century. compared to years past. I would love to see statistics of abortions done due to regret or irresponsibility rather than an uncontrolled or unforeseen mistake. I would venture to guess the culture is WORSE than people want to admit.

"Its not going to happen" seems like the attitude for which we have ended up in this mess in the first place. Much like how congress acts on all things important. Budget/Economy, Immigration and now Roe v Wade. Throw their hands up and scream but defer, defer, and yups, defer....kick that can down the road........

Society now chooses to complain about things YET unwilling to actually do anything "responsible about it". I just gave an example, not to fix the whole system. But to START somewhere. Something reasonable where we as adults have talks with our children. Or Guardians speak with those they are to look after.

Government programs that enrich the lives of people that make poor decisions rather than telling people its ok you can just have abortion and we will pay for it.

This is one of the reason why I put the 4 fundamentals of Firearm safety in my signature. I want to start somewhere and hopefully people read it every time I post to recognize that I emphasize responsibility FIRST! I can be a 2A proponent, but also act responsible and respectful.

Saying its a pipedream "might" be true but doing NOTHING about it and saying there is nothing we can do about it, in my opinion is worse (respectfully of course.)

Things will change, so we should do something... but this extremism is just sad. NO people are NOT losing their rights, the States are given the power to make these decisions, exactly where the intent of voting actually applies. Not dictated by a government or 9 judges......
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You don't consider teen sex normal? This is the problem with many people, complete unrealistic view of the world. Humans have sex. Teen sex drive is very strong. This is a problem I find with many people, particularly conservatives. They veiw the world as this fantasy instead of the reality it is. Humans are animals. That have strong instincts to do things. Maybe people shouldn't, or do it responsibly, but humans can be anything but. That's a reality. The ultra conservative places that teach "you should do that' get no results, or abstintence only education, has horrible results. BEcuase it views life as a fantasy instead of reality. People have sex. It's the most basic biological instinct and why the planet has 9 Billion people.

And that's why conservatives never address any actual problems, they don't view the world for the reality it is but the fantasy they want it to be. Sex education and access to birth control for young people is one, Colorado showed how widely successful that is. Another example is dealing with crime. Conservative "lock them up", "tough on crime" but have no empathy or understanding or attempt to address the root cause of crime, poverty, metnal illness, drug addiction. And we get every increasing amount in prison and nothing done about crime.
 
dorsai said:
If states choose to criminalize this, that is because it is supported by the constituents that are voting candidates into office. Not all constituents would agree and they have the same choices I have living in an area where almost all governance is contrary to my own philosophy. I can deal with it, I can work to change it, or I can move.
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Exactly and a very high number of people in the U.S. are doing that right now - moving to a state which is more aligned with their views - whether it be about state taxes, crime/police, sanctuary cities, abortion, restrictions or lenience on homeless camps, and SO much more. Relocating is very much a current trend!
We've had several threads about splitting up the U.S. (and that the concept/existence/governance of states are actually a kind of natural starting point). It's looking to me like that "split" is actually well on its way to getting started - naturally! Thank God for "states"!
Earlier, in one of these threads about this leak and abortion restrictions, a poster asked why it was okay for abortion limits to be different in CA and Mississippi. Well, I think the answer is super easy. Because the constituents of those two states would vote (in large majorities) to support a different plan. And government is elected to represent its people. The people within the states in the U.S. are not even close to one size fits all.
 
Lloyd Christmas said:
You don't consider teen sex normal? This is the problem with many people, complete unrealistic view of the world. Humans have sex. Teen sex drive is very strong. This is a problem I find with many people, particularly conservatives. They veiw the world as this fantasy instead of the reality it is. Humans are animals. That have strong instincts to do things. Maybe people shouldn't, or do it responsibly, but humans can be anything but. That's a reality. The ultra conservative places that teach "you should do that' get no results, or abstintence only education, has horrible results. BEcuase it views life as a fantasy instead of reality. People have sex. It's the most basic biological instinct and why the planet has 9 Billion people.

And that's why conservatives never address any actual problems, they don't view the world for the reality it is but the fantasy they want it to be. Sex education and access to birth control for young people is one, Colorado showed how widely successful that is. Another example is dealing with crime. Conservative "lock them up", "tough on crime" but have no empathy or understanding or attempt to address the root cause of crime, poverty, metnal illness, drug addiction. And we get every increasing amount in prison and nothing done about crime.
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There is actual science behind kids, sex, and decision-making. Seems that some in this thread could read up on the prefrontal cortex, what it controls (or in this case, does not control) and when it's fully formed.
 
gbg3 said:
Exactly and a very high number of people in the U.S. are doing that right now - moving to a state which is more aligned with their views - whether it be about state taxes, crime/police, sanctuary cities, abortion, restrictions or lenience on homeless camps, and SO much more. Relocating is very much a current trend!
We've had several threads about splitting up the U.S. (and that the concept/existence/governance of states are actually a kind of natural starting point). It's looking to me like that "split" is actually well on its way to getting started - naturally! Thank God for "states"!
Earlier, in one of these threads about this leak and abortion restrictions, a poster asked why it was okay for abortion limits to be different in CA and Mississippi. Well, I think the answer is super easy. Because the constituents of those two states would vote (in large majorities) to support a different plan. And government is elected to represent its people. The people within the states in the U.S. are not even close to one size fits all.
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OK so what's your answer to the states who will criminalize women who travel to other more lenient states to get an abortion?
 
gbg3 said:
Exactly and a very high number of people in the U.S. are doing that right now - moving to a state which is more aligned with their views - whether it be about state taxes, crime/police, sanctuary cities, abortion, restrictions or lenience on homeless camps, and SO much more. Relocating is very much a current trend!
We've had several threads about splitting up the U.S. (and that the concept/existence/governance of states are actually a kind of natural starting point). It's looking to me like that "split" is actually well on its way to getting started - naturally! Thank God for "states"!
Earlier, in one of these threads about this leak and abortion restrictions, a poster asked why it was okay for abortion limits to be different in CA and Mississippi. Well, I think the answer is super easy. Because the constituents of those two states would vote (in large majorities) to support a different plan. And government is elected to represent its people. The people within the states in the U.S. are not even close to one size fits all.
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Yes there is a migration underway largely from expensive blue States to cheaper Red States. I doubt very much that people moving from NY to FL or CA to TX are going to suddenly become Republicans. The migration is much more likely to turn red/purple States blue. Even DeSantis is concerned about it

"There is cause for concern," DeSantis said during an event Monday. "Texas would have all these companies moved from California over the years. So you'd have companies move from San Francisco to Austin, and they'd bring hundreds of employees with them. And those employees would vote the exact same way they voted that turned San Francisco into the dumpster fire that it is"

www.foxnews.com

DeSantis calls San Francisco a 'dumpster fire,' fears Californians importing 'destruction' to Florida

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis took aim at San Francisco, calling the city a 'dumpster fire' while expressing fears over what would happen if companies there relocated to Florida.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
 
Lloyd Christmas said:
You don't consider teen sex normal? This is the problem with many people, complete unrealistic view of the world. Humans have sex. Teen sex drive is very strong. This is a problem I find with many people, particularly conservatives. They veiw the world as this fantasy instead of the reality it is. Humans are animals. That have strong instincts to do things. Maybe people shouldn't, or do it responsibly, but humans can be anything but. That's a reality.
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Yes, in a similar way that you have a completely unrealistic view of the world when you imply that self-interest is morally wrong, hence your endless, idiotic rants about "greed".

greed.jpg
 
Superfly said:
And in some cases criminalizing those who go to other states for the procedure.

Gobsmacked at how many people are glossing that over. You can tell the ones who don't bother paying attention, because they are the ones saying, "Just go to another state!" :rolleyes:
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No state has even proposed to criminalize women for crossing state lines to have an abortion.
 
Superfly said:
Dallas Morning News Says:



"For now" being the key word. Abortion was safe for 50 years, until a right-wing radical court got ahold of it. They are dismantling 50 year old settled case law. Don't think for one minute that they will have issue going after the Obergefell v. Hodges decision. It's only 7 years old. After that? Loving v. Virginia.

All bets are off with these people now. They can do or say anything they choose. There's no one to stop them from throwing meat to their rabid base.
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Not just the Dallas Morning News. The wording in the draft makes it quite clear it is only regarding abortion. I just went to grab that text but my google search provided nothing but pages and pages of sources saying just the opposite. That's 2022 for you. They can't take what Alito actually wrote and report on that and something as simple as a google search makes it nearly impossible to locate his actual wording. Instead, one googles and gets 100s of sources putting their entirely untrue spin on it.
 
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independentusa said:
I heard a talking head on one of the talking head shows state that this was the first time in the modern era that the Supreme Court had taken away a right from a group, rather then held to a right or increased the scope of a right. I do not know enough bout the history of the court to know if the talking head knew what he was saying or just blabbing. Anyone out there able to let me know
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Yes.

Start listening to the podcast at 8:34 (or all the way through). They discusss the oddity that this is a contraction of rights where the constitution is silent. Meaning simply that abortion isn't mentioned so judges have to decide if it's legal. The Supreme Court analyst begins to flesh out the Alito argument at that point--8:34. At 11:40, the analyst strikes at the heart of your question above.

www.nytimes.com

Is This How Roe Ends? (Published 2022)

A leaked draft opinion from the Supreme Court suggested that it was preparing to overturn the constitutional right to abortion.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
Superfly said:
Stop it. You know damn well that we wouldn't even know that Roe v. Wade was on the chopping block without a leak. We don't know what they do or say behind closed doors, and they like it that way. A lot easier to hide their dirty deeds.
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Oh my! You shouldn't know about the deliberation of SCOTUS. BUT you did know this case was before them and you did know a decision was expected around late June and you did know how the arguments went. None of that represents a "dirty deed". But the leak certainly does represent a dirty deed and I'd guess a highly political dirty deed. We'll see.
If you had assumptions about how SCOTUS will rule, that's your issue. SCOTUS rulings and rarely predictable and are often anxiously awaited. This decision was very much one of those which was wondered about!!!!
 
gbg3 said:
Not just the Dallas Morning News. The wording in the draft makes it quite clear it is only regarding abortion.
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This is what Congress is for. The Court is legislating from the bench in this decision. The right to privacy either exists or it doesn't. The Court has held that it does. It is then up to Congress to pass laws which may attempt to limit that right. These laws can be challenged and reviewed, and the Court decides the constitutionality of such laws.

The Court does not have the power to limit privacy in one area but not others. The Court simply determines whether a law violates privacy. This Court has greatly overstepped its bounds. It is giving states power they don't possess.

The Supremacy Clause itself is under attack here.

gbg3 said:
I just went to grab that text but my google search provided nothing but pages and pages of sources saying just the opposite. That's 2022 for you. They can't take what Alito actually wrote and report on that and something as simple as a google search makes it nearly impossible to locate his actual wording. Instead, one googles and gets 100s of sources putting their entirely untrue spin on it.
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gbg3 said:
The wording in the draft makes it quite clear it is only regarding abortion
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It does say that this ruling was only on abortion, and it is. However, it also said " We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled. The Constitution makes no reference to abortion, and no such right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision" which opens the door wide to future rulings for things not specifically referenced in the Constitution like same sex marriage. Why would their logic change should a same sex case be brought to them? These guys are proclaimed Constitutional purists!
 
gbg3 said:
Oh my! You shouldn't know about the deliberation of SCOTUS. BUT you did know this case was before them and you did know a decision was expected around late June and you did know how the arguments went. None of that represents a "dirty deed". But the leak certainly does represent a dirty deed and I'd guess a highly political dirty deed. We'll see.
If you had assumptions about how SCOTUS will rule, that's your issue. SCOTUS rulings and rarely predictable and are often anxiously awaited. This decision was very much one of those which was wondered about!!!!
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You are ****ing right that this was unpredictable. Settled case law from 50 years ago is now on the chopping block? That's not a dirty deed? Doing shit like this in silent?

Bullshit. Pull your ****ing head out of the sand.
 
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