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Could this be true about the Roe decision?

Serious question, which every debate on this evades. The Left says we are taking rights away... the right says we are killing babies. So extreme...which no one will ever concede obviously, but is so stupid to begin with.


Why are we not addressing something much simpler. for the MAJORITY of cases; (not all)

Does a women and man have the right to choose their physical interaction? Yes or No?
Do they have a right to have a contraceptives of their choice? Yes or No? (go to the doctor, or a drug store down the street a 3 pack is $5 a 12pack is $10. a friend told me long ago, if you are NOT mature enough to got the store to get protection, you are not mature enough to have sex.

For the majority of cases its unwanted pregnancy, not downplaying as there are certainly cases where a women did NOT have a choice and I hope the person of such criminal act is castrated and charged to the full extent of the law and never sees the light of day. But the majority of unwanted pregnancies are due to POOR CHOICES. As that is what it was... Unwanted pregnancies. If it was planned or wanted they would not have to worry about an abortion and neither right nor left has an argument in that case period.


Why are we NOT teaching the public of their selfish, self indulgent choices, or Irresponsible choices. This is not to attack or to demean, but to be blunt. People make mistakes, but for the most part, both parties consented to a physical engagement. The risk inherent to unprotected sex is a transmission of a disease or unwanted pregnancy. THIS action is WELL before "taking" a women's right away. A women has a right to not have intercourse with someone they don't want a baby with. Nor is it Killing babies if the person just uses protection or responsible thinking PRIOR to engaging with another person.

You dont want your abortion right taken away, Why even worry about that? Why are you having unprotected sex with a person you DONT want to marry or have children with in the first place....... Well before womens rights?


*Flame suit activated*.........

I am pro choice for the most part, but I am not Pro stupid.... we have free will and free choice.... I have seen MANY irresponsible people... make bad choices. Thats on THEM and should not be a burden on others for their poor decisions.
 
Michael Cole said:
The right is granted by the US Constitution. Giving that to the states does indeed take away the right. Rights are not granted at the ballot box.
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They absolutely are. Every amendment in the bill of rights was subjected to the ballot box. If not at the ballot box, who should decide on our rights?
 
Exactice said:
Serious question, which every debate on this evades. The Left says we are taking rights away... the right says we are killing babies. So extreme...which no one will ever concede obviously, but is so stupid to begin with.


Why are we not addressing something much simpler. for the MAJORITY of cases; (not all)

Does a women and man have the right to choose their physical interaction? Yes or No?
Do they have a right to have a contraceptives of their choice? Yes or No? (go to the doctor, or a drug store down the street a 3 pack is $5 a 12pack is $10. a friend told me long ago, if you are NOT mature enough to got the store to get protection, you are not mature enough to have sex.

For the majority of cases its unwanted pregnancy, not downplaying as there are certainly cases where a women did NOT have a choice and I hope the person of such criminal act is castrated and charged to the full extent of the law and never sees the light of day. But the majority of unwanted pregnancies are due to POOR CHOICES. As that is what it was... Unwanted pregnancies. If it was planned or wanted they would not have to worry about an abortion and neither right nor left has an argument in that case period.


Why are we NOT teaching the public of their selfish, self indulgent choices, or Irresponsible choices. This is not to attack or to demean, but to be blunt. People make mistakes, but for the most part, both parties consented to a physical engagement. The risk inherent to unprotected sex is a transmission of a disease or unwanted pregnancy. THIS action is WELL before "taking" a women's right away. A women has a right to not have intercourse with someone they don't want a baby with. Nor is it Killing babies if the person just uses protection or responsible thinking PRIOR to engaging with another person.

You dont want your abortion right taken away, Why even worry about that? Why are you having unprotected sex with a person you DONT want to marry or have children with in the first place....... Well before womens rights?


*Flame suit activated*.........

I am pro choice for the most part, but I am not Pro stupid.... we have free will and free choice.... I have seen MANY irresponsible people... make bad choices. Thats on THEM and should not be a burden on others for their poor decisions.
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The left usually characterizes this common sense as a zealous obsession with controlling women because we hate and fear them and sex too.
 
Bullseye said:
Doesn't change my point at all. This is an OPINION.
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Ok, then your point was irrelevant as I was discussing voting rights and they are being vacated case by case as documented by the article I posted.
 
tacomancer said:
Ok, then your point was irrelevant as I was discussing voting rights and they are being vacated case by case as documented by the article I posted.
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It's an OPINION. No assumption to full and honest discussion.
 
Hamish Howl said:
You keep believing that. Once this decision goes through, you'll literally have one less right than a corpse.
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Depending on your zip code.

I think the women commenting here that this is no big deal live in States that will protect their freedom of choice and that of their daughters. Easy to say no big deal when you know that you, your daughters and your grandaughters are not impacted.
 
Cardinal said:
I don’t know if it’s next, but it’s definitely on the list. Also on that list is Brown Vs Board of Education.
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I noted those earlier @Cardinal . Along with Loving v VA. Gays in the military and more DeSanitizing of America. As an aside I think it's time to take tax-exempt status from most churches. The list could be endless until this country is almost unrecognizable.
 
Parrish said:
Are native born African Americans, Native Americans and Hispanics illegal voters? Seems the vast majority of illegal voters are members of the GOP and COS Meadows.
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Huh?
 
ProgressPlease said:
I'm not so sure about that. Abortion is the hill to die on for so many people. It is a very common single issue priority for the RW - they will literally vote for anyone who centers an anti-choice message in their platform. I don't think anything else compares.
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Abortion is the tip of the ice berg. With GOP control of the House, Senate and SCOTUS, the "America First" crowd and "Christian" Fundamentalists in charge this country will cease to be a republic.
 
Atreus21 said:
The left usually characterizes this common sense as a zealous obsession with controlling women because we hate and fear them and sex too.
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What frustrates me is that I can be a conservative with some common sense.

The same goes with a Liberal with conservative values. ITS NOT 2 sides of a coin. You CAN be a responsible blend of BOTH.


I can be Pro Choice, but also understand, that we are yelling and screaming for the worse reason and extreme dumb reasons.

Killing babies can be stopped by proper education and making well informed decision about intercourse, and NOT getting pregnant in the first place.

Your body, your choice, Heck YES. I agree. So dont have unprotected sex with a person you don't want, intend, or potentially want a child with. This then avoids the need to have an abortion in the first place and having to make a stressful decision.

With that, Mistakes and unforeseen circumstances still occur, BUT if we educate better and change the "culture" this would reduce BOTH sides of the extreme....Why do we have to go ONE full way versus addressing it with basic common sense.... I just dont understand.
 
Exactice said:
What frustrates me is that I can be a conservative with some common sense.

The same goes with a Liberal with conservative values. ITS NOT 2 sides of a coin. You CAN be a responsible blend of BOTH.


I can be Pro Choice, but also understand, that we are yelling and screaming for the worse reason and extreme dumb reasons.

Killing babies can be stopped by proper education and making well informed decision about intercourse, and NOT getting pregnant in the first place.

Your body, your choice, Heck YES. I agree. So dont have unprotected sex with a person you don't want, intend, or potentially want a child with. This then avoids the need to have an abortion in the first place and having to make a stressful decision.

With that, Mistakes and unforeseen circumstances still occur, BUT if we educate better and change the "culture" this would reduce BOTH sides of the extreme....Why do we have to go ONE full way versus addressing it with basic common sense.... I just dont understand.
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I actually think (and polls show) there are a LOT of people from both parties who fall somewhere in the middle. Liberals think conservatives want to ban abortion, when in reality, I think MANY conservatives just want the cut off to be earlier than later (I actually think the Mississippi 15 week idea would be a concept many could at least handle or compromise on). Conservatives think liberals want abortion to be allowed much further into pregnancy, or all the way until birth. I'd hope to learn most liberals wouldn't want that kind of legislation (federally or in states).
 
Atreus21 said:
They absolutely are. Every amendment in the bill of rights was subjected to the ballot box. If not at the ballot box, who should decide on our rights?
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The state ballot box. I thought I was clear, but that's what I meant. If it's returned to the states, rights will be decided at the state ballot box. Our rights come from the US Constitution, not state ballot boxes.
 
dorsai said:
First, the decision would not ban abortion. It would simply put it back in the hands of the state. Yes, you may not be able to get one in Oklahoma or have to leave Texas but states like California and New York will probably continue to expand access. This decision does not take away rights.

Secondly, the draft is not about abortion as much as it is about how the case was made. Ruth Bader Ginsberg expressed her own concerns about the unsolid foundation upon which Roe vs Wade was built. Her concern was without legislative action, Roe could and would eventually be overturned. She advocated for abortion but did not support the court ruling and felt it should have been more narrow and struck down only the Texas law. Is it a surprise that other Supreme Court jurists agree with her?

Thirdly, a right to abortion has not been codified. It is not recognized as inalienable in the Constitution and the United States has passed no laws recognizing it as a right even though it is permitted. There are no "facts" of when life begins and not even a consensus among biologists. That debate needs to be settled to actually determine if there is a third party in the private matter (a child with all inalienable rights recognized by the United States) or if it is just a private matter between patient and doctor. Roe vs Wade prevented the settlement of that debate and it applies to the way the legal ruling based on privacy was structured.

Lastly, states can still enact their own pro-choice policies and can allow or restrict as their citizens call for.

The best remedy for this today is the same as it has been for 50 years. Legislation. Write a bill, get it signed, get it affirmed, and then move forward. State legislators are doing that work for the pro-life side. The pro-choice side needs to do the same.
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I wonder what you make of efforts in a few states to 'criminalize' assistance creating a broadly worded ' aide or abetting' crime designed specifically to target those who drive a woman traveling to another state or to/from the clinic, or help finance the abortion, including the biological father or the parents? I mean one of your solutions above was that leisurely and scenic drive to another state. Let's not minimize what this represents. This is basically a declaration of a 'civil war' between pro-life and pro choice states.
 
Exactice said:
What frustrates me is that I can be a conservative with some common sense.

The same goes with a Liberal with conservative values. ITS NOT 2 sides of a coin. You CAN be a responsible blend of BOTH.


I can be Pro Choice, but also understand, that we are yelling and screaming for the worse reason and extreme dumb reasons.

Killing babies can be stopped by proper education and making well informed decision about intercourse, and NOT getting pregnant in the first place.

Your body, your choice, Heck YES. I agree. So dont have unprotected sex with a person you don't want, intend, or potentially want a child with. This then avoids the need to have an abortion in the first place and having to make a stressful decision.

With that, Mistakes and unforeseen circumstances still occur, BUT if we educate better and change the "culture" this would reduce BOTH sides of the extreme....Why do we have to go ONE full way versus addressing it with basic common sense.... I just dont understand.
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Of course. This is sheer common sense as a practical matter. But when the chips are down and those mistakes happen, do/should we allow abortions to take place?
 
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