Conservatives out of line on mideast unrest.

[cpwill]

I too am a cat lover. I have two females and they are spoild and cute. I think this whole thing is a perfect example of why we can not have nutjobs like Michele Bachmann,Louie Gohmert,Jim DeMent or any other social conservative in power. These people are living in the past and extreme just like the crazy Islamics. It should scare every American away from social conservatives every time they look at the Islamic world.

really. so you think it is the social conservatives here who are fine with the notion of integrating sharia law into our jurisprudential system?

 

[code1211]

Obama never claimed what went on in Libya was a deomstration gone bad. The truth is, all the facts are not in yet. Obama said those who commited these violent acts and the murder of 4 Americans will be brought to justice. I'm having a hard time understanding what point you're making. I don't see the lie you claim Obama told. However, we have learned in the past few days that Obama's efforts in Libya have given us a good ally. The Libyan people have expressed their love for the late Ambassador Stevens and they have started a movement to push the the terrorist elements out of Libya. This shows that Obama's Middle East policy hasn't been all that bad. I think he is doing an outstanding job dealing with the difficulties we face in the Middle East without starting a whole new string of wars.

Thinking that must make you feel good.

 

[sharon]

Thinking that must make you feel good.

The Libyan people and the government have caused disbanding of two militias.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Why are you trying to tie Obama into a story about what the UN Ambassador said? Nothing in the link you posted mentioned Carney or Obama.

Carney: No Info Suggesting Unrest 'Preplanned' | www.wtov9.com
Anti-Muslim film

“I have made it clear that the United States has a profound respect for people of all faiths,” Obama said in his weekly radio address. “Yet there is never any justification for violence …. There is no excuse for attacks on our embassies and consulates.”

Dont let the facts get in the way of your denial. The White House tried to spin this and failed because the facts, not the narrative were different than what they wanted to believe. Use your head, not your political bent to get facts.

 

[code1211]

The Libyan people and the government have caused disbanding of two militias.

Which is good.

This probably also proof that the attack was supported and initiated by groups of terrorists probably supported by terrorist organizations like iran, Hamas, or Al Qaeda.

Again, the Obama Administration is out of touch with reality. By proffering the fantasy that this was the work of a group outraged by a video who trooped on over to the embassy after evening prayers was ludicrous on it's face. A multi phased military attack supported by heavy weapons is not the stuff of a demonstration gone bad.

 

[sharon]

Which is good.

This probably also proof that the attack was supported and initiated by groups of terrorists probably supported by terrorist organizations like iran, Hamas, or Al Qaeda.

Again, the Obama Administration is out of touch with reality. By proffering the fantasy that this was the work of a group outraged by a video who trooped on over to the embassy after evening prayers was ludicrous on it's face. A multi phased military attack supported by heavy weapons is not the stuff of a demonstration gone bad.

I think Obama is well aware of the current landscape and his posture has empowered the good guys.

 

[OpportunityCost]

I think Obama is well aware of the current landscape and his posture has empowered the good guys.

His posture has been to apologize for the god given right to express yourself no matter who is offended. That isnt something for him to decide to take away. Its a completely American value and hes apologizing for it. But then again, you are an apologist for radical islamic actions and admire the way Middle Eastern countries treat people. It renders the value of your input on anything from that region of the world moot by definition---you have tossed your ability to make rational decisions aside.

 

[sharon]

His posture has been to apologize for the god given right to express yourself no matter who is offended. That isnt something for him to decide to take away. Its a completely American value and hes apologizing for it. But then again, you are an apologist for radical islamic actions and admire the way Middle Eastern countries treat people. It renders the value of your input on anything from that region of the world moot by definition---you have tossed your ability to make rational decisions aside.

Actually he said the US government had no part in such a stupid, vicious attack on Islam.

 

[j-mac]

Actually he said the US government had no part in such a stupid, vicious attack on Islam.

Oh poor babies...A stupid, vicious attack eh? Tell me what in that trailer was untrue?

 

[Hairytic]

Carney: No Info Suggesting Unrest 'Preplanned' | www.wtov9.com
Anti-Muslim film


Dont let the facts get in the way of your denial. The White House tried to spin this and failed because the facts, not the narrative were different than what they wanted to believe. Use your head, not your political bent to get facts.

The only think that link is talking about is the unrest in the Middle East, not the attacks in Benhgazi that lead to the deaths of 4 Americans. I assumed we are talking specifically about the attack in Libya, not all the riots throughout the Middle East.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

At worst obama's weakness has caused these attacks, this is the first time in over 30 years a US ambassador has been drug out and killed and it happened on obama's watch. At best his policy did not prevent this turmoil so either way it is a failure.

 

[Rokkitsci]

I was asking why you want only nice debate. I like the knock down and drag out stuff too. Stupid people need to be put in thier place.

I like how you imply that your opponents are 'stupid' and need to be put in their 'place.' I also note that the one claiming 'not stupid' cannot spell. In your original post I counted six or seven stupid misspellings without even trying. Now, everyone misspells 'thier/their' sometimes as you did in this post, but not everyone misspells one in ten words they use.

However - that is just a joking 'dig' at your supposed 'anti-stupidity' - I am very tolerant of errors in spelling if the logic of what is being said is sound, or unless the the person is flaunting his 'superior intelligence' while implying anyone who disagrees with him is 'stupid' or needs to be put in their 'place.'

I stand ready to be 'put in my place' - with or without typos. (and btw - some of your errors are not typos - they reveal fundamental ignorance.)

I also like respectful debate, and usually allow others to 'declare victory' when they descend into really stupid insults in the place of logical argument. {My pappy taught me never to rassle with pigs - you both get dirty and the pig likes it.}

So - do you want to defend your original post?

The administration outright lied about the recent 'protests' aka 'terrorist attacks' in Libya, Egypt, and other M.E. areas.

NOBODY believes that all this was because of some silly film which is disrespectful to their 'prophet.' OR - do you still believe that as your OP seems to state?

Can you defend the administrations' obfuscation on the issue for three days - and are still not settled on the 'message' that will best 'play' with the electorate?

Do you actually believe that private citizens are not allowed to comment on ongoing crises - especially during an election season when the current administration is so obviously managing the 'news' not for national security reasons but for political advantage?

Were you around during the Bush years, when the entire DEM party dedicated itself to attacking every move he made - much to the detriment of our military success and - in my opinion, caused the stalemate we currently 'enjoy' in the M.E.? Were these expressions also bad in your view? Did Bush blame the obstructionist DEMs for every thing that went bad during his administration?

Inquiring minds want to know what you think NOW - now that it has been proven that everything Mitt Romney said was true. Is the basis of your disapproval that he was right and your leader was clueless?

 

[Rokkitsci]

i'm not, because i haven't clicked on that channel in years. i can't say i'm surprised that they are blaming it on Obama, but i can say that i care about their take on it as much as i care what Limbaugh has to say about it. the confirmation bias merchants have no intellectual curiosity or objectivity, so they are worthy only of being ignored entirely by those who do.

So where do you go to indulge your 'intellectual curiosity'? Do you have the time to do independent research using original documents? Or do you rely on some new organization to present you some facts to feed into your objective processor?

And what would happen to your objectivity if the news organization you used had an agenda to present you with only that data which made the current administration look good? Would it not be a good 'objective' pursuit to find out if there were other data which might go into your processor? Would it not be nice to look at the motives of all news organizations and process the information they produce with a jaundiced eye to sort out what may be misleading or missing information?

You are always free to ignore data from your analysis. But to ignore the possibility that the data even exists is to make your analysis completely worthless from an 'objective' viewpoint.

To depend on biased data to perform you 'analysis' makes you a campaign operative for one of the parties - not an 'objective' analyst.

To reject anything presented on FNC is to accept the notion that the NYT presents unbiased data without leaving out anything vital to an objective analysis. That notion has been debunked by everyone. They don't even claim to be unbiased. Anyone who looked at their coverage of events could not possibly think they present all the data they have access to.

Now - news PUNDITS have no obligation to be objective - they present their personal views and reveal their personal desires. As long at they don't CLAIM to be 'fair and balanced' one can take it or leave it. It is true that Hannity is a POS on Fox - I am an arch conservative and I cannot stand to watch - or listen - to him. He is no different than the Liberal pundits that I abhor - he is just on the other side. I reject his style of activism - along with the majority of liberal pundits.

 

[sharon]

At worst obama's weakness has caused these attacks, this is the first time in over 30 years a US ambassador has been drug out and killed and it happened on obama's watch. At best his policy did not prevent this turmoil so either way it is a failure.

He wasn't "drug out and killed".. He died of smoke inhalation after he was rushed to BMC.

 

[OpportunityCost]

The only think that link is talking about is the unrest in the Middle East, not the attacks in Benhgazi that lead to the deaths of 4 Americans. I assumed we are talking specifically about the attack in Libya, not all the riots throughout the Middle East.

Carney: No Info Suggesting Unrest 'Preplanned' | www.wtov9.com

Press Secretary Jay Carney says the White House has no information to suggest that any of the unrest in the Middle East 'was pre-planned.' He says it's in reaction to a video that 'we have judged to be reprehensible and disgusting.'

You are wrong. shrug

You arent engaging in spin anymore, you are into the dishonesty arena. Maybe you should get a job with the current administration, you ought to fit right in.

 

[OpportunityCost]

He wasn't "drug out and killed".. He died of smoke inhalation after he was rushed to BMC.

Breathtaking level of disinformation and denial. Which isn't suprising. Islamic extremist apologists, now synonymous with Ostriches.

 

[sharon]

Breathtaking level of disinformation and denial. Which isn't suprising. Islamic extremist apologists, now synonymous with Ostriches.

Congratulations. You have been thoroughly brainwashed..

 

[j-mac]

He wasn't "drug out and killed".. He died of smoke inhalation after he was rushed to BMC.

No, you're partially right....He was raped, killed, then drug out....

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/09/islamists-drag-dead-body-of-us-ambassador-in-the-streets/

they dragged the Ambassador's body through the street....And you're defending that?

 

[Helix]

So where do you go to indulge your 'intellectual curiosity'? Do you have the time to do independent research using original documents? Or do you rely on some new organization to present you some facts to feed into your objective processor?

i generally monitor news from a wide variety of sources. my primary gateway is google news, which compiles everything into one page. from this page, one can read an article and get links to hundreds of other sources for the same story. in this way, one can average out some of the bias of individual sources. you can check it out by going to google and clicking "news" with no subject in the search box. it's a pretty good tool, in my opinion.

in addition to that, i watch some local and nightly newscasts, and i follow the 24 hour networks for breaking news events.

And what would happen to your objectivity if the news organization you used had an agenda to present you with only that data which made the current administration look good? Would it not be a good 'objective' pursuit to find out if there were other data which might go into your processor? Would it not be nice to look at the motives of all news organizations and process the information they produce with a jaundiced eye to sort out what may be misleading or missing information?

again, this is averaged out by the number of sources followed. one can generally get a better sense of fact and bias as the number of sources increases.

You are always free to ignore data from your analysis. But to ignore the possibility that the data even exists is to make your analysis completely worthless from an 'objective' viewpoint.

To depend on biased data to perform you 'analysis' makes you a campaign operative for one of the parties - not an 'objective' analyst.

To reject anything presented on FNC is to accept the notion that the NYT presents unbiased data without leaving out anything vital to an objective analysis. That notion has been debunked by everyone. They don't even claim to be unbiased. Anyone who looked at their coverage of events could not possibly think they present all the data they have access to.

the NYT is not unbiased. there is no stand-alone source that one can count on to get the complete picture. likewise, if one only follows American media, there is no way that he or she is getting a good synopsis of global news.

the problem doesn't lie completely with fox, msnbc, or any other network. the problem is that the viewers of these networks often don't follow enough other news sources to realize what they are being sold. if one were to primarily get his or her news from fox, msnbc, the nyt, or American media in general, that individual is not getting a complete picture. it's up to the reader / viewer to have the intellectual curiosity to fact check. those who use fox or msnbc as a primary news gateway generally aren't doing that.

 

[pragmatic]

Which is good.

This probably also proof that the attack was supported and initiated by groups of terrorists probably supported by terrorist organizations like iran, Hamas, or Al Qaeda.

Again, the Obama Administration is out of touch with reality. By proffering the fantasy that this was the work of a group outraged by a video who trooped on over to the embassy after evening prayers was ludicrous on it's face. A multi phased military attack supported by heavy weapons is not the stuff of a demonstration gone bad.

Disagree. The WH and the State Department aren't fools. They have a pretty good idea what is going on. But the "reality" that Obama is focused on and in touch with is getting re-elected. And his positions/statements are going to be adjusted accordingly.

 

[Rokkitsci]

i generally monitor news from a wide variety of sources. my primary gateway is google news, which compiles everything into one page. from this page, one can read an article and get links to hundreds of other sources for the same story. in this way, one can average out some of the bias of individual sources. you can check it out by going to google and clicking "news" with no subject in the search box. it's a pretty good tool, in my opinion.

in addition to that, i watch some local and nightly newscasts, and i follow the 24 hour networks for breaking news events.



again, this is averaged out by the number of sources followed. one can generally get a better sense of fact and bias as the number of sources increases.



the NYT is not unbiased. there is no stand-alone source that one can count on to get the complete picture. likewise, if one only follows American media, there is no way that he or she is getting a good synopsis of global news.

the problem doesn't lie completely with fox, msnbc, or any other network. the problem is that the viewers of these networks often don't follow enough other news sources to realize what they are being sold. if one were to primarily get his or her news from fox, msnbc, the nyt, or American media in general, that individual is not getting a complete picture. it's up to the reader / viewer to have the intellectual curiosity to fact check. those who use fox or msnbc as a primary news gateway generally aren't doing that.

I admire your style - Hope we can discuss some topics in depth.

I am not nearly as industrious as you. I am an arch conservative so I tend to FNC as my entertainment/news source. I switch over to MSNBC to get the 'other' side of issues, but the personas there are just too over-the-top for my mental well being.

That is when I go to the History channels, Discovery Channel, Military Channel, NatGeo, etc.

I watch the hard news segments on FNC, will watch O'Reilly, tune in to MSNBC when Hannity comes on. Will go back to FNC to see who Greta is interviewing. Whenever there is no breaking news or top-notch issues, I relax with my aforementioned channels and/or come to the debate forum for intellectual challenge.

I like these boards because I continually test what I really believe. I am satisfied in my ultra conservative stance, but am always looking for a liberal to challenge my logic, rather than just spew the latest talking point from the DNC or DailyKos.

Peace eace

 

[sharon]

No, you're partially right....He was raped, killed, then drug out....

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/09/islamists-drag-dead-body-of-us-ambassador-in-the-streets/

they dragged the Ambassador's body through the street....And you're defending that?

No they didn't... the video shows what happened.. they found him on the floor in the destroyed consulate which was full of smoke.. They were shouting He's alive, God is great.. They carried him to a car and rushed him to BMC which is a huge, modern hospital where he lived 1 1/2 hours.

You should be ashamed.. Its bad enough.. the Ambassador has a wife and children.

 

[Fisher]

No they didn't... the video shows what happened.. they found him on the floor in the destroyed consulate which was full of smoke.. They were shouting He's alive, God is great.. They carried him to a car and rushed him to BMC which is a huge, modern hospital where he lived 1 1/2 hours.

You should be ashamed.. Its bad enough.. the Ambassador has a wife and children.

CNN indicated that he was not breathing when he arrived at the hospital, but the video shows that locals tried to help rescue him and get him there. The 30 some ish people who were in the bunker also indicated that locals were helping.

 

[sharon]

CNN indicated that he was not breathing when he arrived at the hospital, but the video shows that locals tried to help rescue him and get him there. The 30 some ish people who were in the bunker also indicated that locals were helping.

Thank you.............

 

[code1211]

I think Obama is well aware of the current landscape and his posture has empowered the good guys.

If this is true, then what you imply is that he instructed his administration from the UN Ambassador to his Press secretary to lie to the American people.

Which is it? Out of touch or swindling the American people?