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Conservatives out of line on mideast unrest.

James D Hill said:
I am getting sick of FOX news trying to say the unrest in the Islamic world is due to weakness in Obama's forein policy. How is it the President is responsible for some film maker making an anti Islamic movie?

Mitt Romney looked like a fool by jumping on Obama before he had all the facts and the lapdogs on FOX look like morons when they try to say the President is always apoligizing for the Bush years. Are they thin skinned or what? What is wrong with saying you are sorry in the first place. I used to say sorry before I punched some bully in the nose. I would say sorry but you brought it on yourself.

The fact is this is a bad situation and it would not have mattered who was in office. The conservatives need to get off their cowboy kick and come back to reality. No matter how tough and John Wayne like the President talks does make a differance to religous fanatics. Conservatives need to stop fishing for outrage. It is making them loook stupid.

Now you all know why we can never let religous conservatives take over in this country. Just look at the Islamic world and see how hierarchy works. Shria law is just old testiment law. You know stoning people for adultry,prostitution,homosexual sex and anything else considered sin. With fanatics anything is possible just look at the abortion doctor murders.
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I'm reading this a week later and the situation is still developing.

That said, it is obvious at this point that the government was lying to us about the causes and that the local governments were warning our government that there was going to be trouble on 9/11.

The video was known at the time, but the assassination in Libya was the result of well planned military, multi-phase attack with heavy and light weaponry and no preceding demonstrations.

The question that is not answered is, "Why did the Obama Administration think that lying about this would help and how in the world did they think that it would not be found out?"

Obama and his helpers think that they are the smartest people around AND that others are just plain stupid. This is the recipe for the Obama Administration to continue making mistakes and to continue to undermine the legal system.
 
NolaMan said:
From CBS: A spokesperson at the Interior Ministry in Libya stated, ""We don't have enough power to catch them." The Bengahzai attorney general said the Libyans don't have the expertise or technology to do a proper investigation.

From CNN: Jamal Mabrouk, of the February 17th Brigade, said that he and a battalion commander sat down with U.S. envoys to discuss the economy and security in the country, which has been going through a turbulent transition since the fall of Moammar Gaddafi last year. According to Mabrouk, they told the diplomats that the precarious security situation was not beneficial for international business -- this was three days before the attack, you might think the Ambassador would not have been around with almost no security in this scenario.
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Obama sent a team to investigate what happened in Bengahzi. As for what took place before and during the attacks, we don't know yet. We have reports that the Libyan government asked for more security, but we don't know if Obama sent extra security or not. It is a bit early to try and lay blame on anyone other than the attackers at this point. Sometimes, even with the best security, things happen. It is clear though, that Obama is dedicated to dealing with this situation in a way that will result in the capture of those responsible.
 
code1211 said:
I'm reading this a week later and the situation is still developing.

That said, it is obvious at this point that the government was lying to us about the causes and that the local governments were warning our government that there was going to be trouble on 9/11.

The video was known at the time, but the assassination in Libya was the result of well planned military, multi-phase attack with heavy and light weaponry and no preceding demonstrations.

The question that is not answered is, "Why did the Obama Administration think that lying about this would help and how in the world did they think that it would not be found out?"

Obama and his helpers think that they are the smartest people around AND that others are just plain stupid. This is the recipe for the Obama Administration to continue making mistakes and to continue to undermine the legal system.
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I don't get where you claim Obama lied. What did he lie about?
 
Hairytic said:
I don't get where you claim Obama lied. What did he lie about?
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I think the lie he is referring to is in Obama blaming the attacks on the anti-islam movie

I don't know if it's a lie... or simply a case of him being wrong.. but I lean towards the latter.
 
Mainstream Libyans and mainstream Egyptians HATE each other. Not sure why I thought it was relevant to point that out, but just something to keep in your minds when you are analyzing what might be going on there.

Of course Libya lacks the capabilities to properly investigate. The government does not function like a government but that does not favor the left's position that things are better there because Obama freed them so we don't discuss that.

Of course these attacks have little to nothing to do with a youtube movie preview or whether or not Obama attended a security briefing, but those details do not favor the right's position that it is all Obama's fault.

It is a complicated place. We are not going to put the toothpaste back in the tube. There is PLENTY of fault to go around so we should focus on assigning blame for that when the house is on fire rather than coming up with a reasonable path forward through the flames.
 
Fletch said:
The failure of the Obama policy lies in its naïveté--the idea that an enlightened society such as ours has any commonality or moral equivalence with a dark ages religion like Islam.
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The one commonality we share is all the sons of abraham went through a bloody phase.

The Christians and the Jews both were genocidal maniacs at one point.

Islam is younger and many of its adherents are only a generation or two away from primitive lifestyles in a hostile environment.
 
Cole said:
What did "FoxNews" say specifically that has led to your ill feeling?

Was it something stated from the news organization or from one of the hosts on the opinion shows.....???
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Or an opinion shows commentary on the subject in a bump DURING the news segment?

You are aware of the constant reinforcement of the opinion messaging during the supposed "news" segments, right?
 
Thrilla said:
I think the lie he is referring to is in Obama blaming the attacks on the anti-islam movie

I don't know if it's a lie... or simply a case of him being wrong.. but I lean towards the latter.
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I don't recall Obama blaming the attacks on the anti-islam movie.
 
Hairytic said:
I don't get where you claim Obama lied. What did he lie about?
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if the Obama administration truly believed that the cause of the vilence was the video, they're morons. If they correctly know that the middle east policy is a disaster, then lying about it and hoping it would go away would be in keeping with the way they do most things.

Not surprisingly, the stenographers in the White house press corp did not challenge this at all.

The attack in Libya could not have been a demonstration gone bad. Trying to sell this had to be either a lie by an administration trying to save face from a policy gone horribly wrong, like every other policy, or evidence that they simply have lost touch with reality in favor of the fable that the middle east can be won over by the offer of niceness.

If an opponent can die laughing, this might have been a cunning attack by Obama, but I doubt the lethality of this method.
 
code1211 said:
if the Obama administration truly believed that the cause of the vilence was the video, they're morons. If they correctly know that the middle east policy is a disaster, then lying about it and hoping it would go away would be in keeping with the way they do most things.

Not surprisingly, the stenographers in the White house press corp did not challenge this at all.

The attack in Libya could not have been a demonstration gone bad. Trying to sell this had to be either a lie by an administration trying to save face from a policy gone horribly wrong, like every other policy, or evidence that they simply have lost touch with reality in favor of the fable that the middle east can be won over by the offer of niceness.

If an opponent can die laughing, this might have been a cunning attack by Obama, but I doubt the lethality of this method.
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Obama never claimed what went on in Libya was a deomstration gone bad. The truth is, all the facts are not in yet. Obama said those who commited these violent acts and the murder of 4 Americans will be brought to justice. I'm having a hard time understanding what point you're making. I don't see the lie you claim Obama told. However, we have learned in the past few days that Obama's efforts in Libya have given us a good ally. The Libyan people have expressed their love for the late Ambassador Stevens and they have started a movement to push the the terrorist elements out of Libya. This shows that Obama's Middle East policy hasn't been all that bad. I think he is doing an outstanding job dealing with the difficulties we face in the Middle East without starting a whole new string of wars.
 
James D Hill said:
I was asking why you want only nice debate. I like the knock down and drag out stuff too. Stupid people need to be put in thier place.
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I was just thinking the very same thing. Only I cannot afford any more points. So you are off the hook for a few weeks.
 
Hairytic said:
I don't get where you claim Obama lied. What did he lie about?
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Pretty much their entire story has been shown to be wrong. They've been obfuscating since day one.
 
Taylor said:
Pretty much their entire story has been shown to be wrong. They've been obfuscating since day one.
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lol. Right. Thats why you can't give me any source or examples of what you are talking about.
 
Hairytic said:
Obama never claimed what went on in Libya was a deomstration gone bad. The truth is, all the facts are not in yet. Obama said those who commited these violent acts and the murder of 4 Americans will be brought to justice. I'm having a hard time understanding what point you're making. I don't see the lie you claim Obama told. However, we have learned in the past few days that Obama's efforts in Libya have given us a good ally. The Libyan people have expressed their love for the late Ambassador Stevens and they have started a movement to push the the terrorist elements out of Libya. This shows that Obama's Middle East policy hasn't been all that bad. I think he is doing an outstanding job dealing with the difficulties we face in the Middle East without starting a whole new string of wars.
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Are you out of your flippin mind?

UN ambassador says Libya attack was spontaneous - The Norfolk Daily News : News National
But Ambassador Susan Rice said evidence gathered so far shows no indications of a premeditated or coordinated strike. She said the deadly protest in Benghazi appeared to be a copycat of demonstrations that had erupted hours earlier outside the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, spurred by a YouTube film mocking the Prophet Muhammad.
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The Obama administration, including Carney and Rice tried to spin it that the demonstrations were motivated by the film and "spontaneous". Not everyone is willing to buy into the admin story just cause they say thats what it is.
 
Hairytic said:
Obama sent a team to investigate what happened in Bengahzi. As for what took place before and during the attacks, we don't know yet. We have reports that the Libyan government asked for more security, but we don't know if Obama sent extra security or not. It is a bit early to try and lay blame on anyone other than the attackers at this point. Sometimes, even with the best security, things happen. It is clear though, that Obama is dedicated to dealing with this situation in a way that will result in the capture of those responsible.
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Prior presidents knew how to handle situations like this. They would help these nations find a leader who could control dissidents. They would also find a leader for that country who would consider the US to be an ally.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Are you out of your flippin mind?

UN ambassador says Libya attack was spontaneous - The Norfolk Daily News : News National


The Obama administration, including Carney and Rice tried to spin it that the demonstrations were motivated by the film and "spontaneous". Not everyone is willing to buy into the admin story just cause they say thats what it is.
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Why are you trying to tie Obama into a story about what the UN Ambassador said? Nothing in the link you posted mentioned Carney or Obama.
 
I like Carney. I trust him even if I do not agree with the point he is making. I don't think he would conspire to mislead people. He is the best spokesman I have ever seen at the WH.
 
johnny_rebson said:
Prior presidents knew how to handle situations like this. They would help these nations find a leader who could control dissidents. They would also find a leader for that country who would consider the US to be an ally.
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I don't think it is good foraign policy for the US to appoint a leader to another country. The Libyan people voted for their leader and their leader is helping the US bring the killers to justice.
When you claim prior presidents new how to handle situatins like this, which ones are you talking about? Bush didn't appoint a leader in Iraq. He didn't prevent the Iraqi radicals from killing US citizens. I also don't think he did a good job in dealing with Iraq.
 
johnny_rebson said:
Prior presidents knew how to handle situations like this. They would help these nations find a leader who could control dissidents. They would also find a leader for that country who would consider the US to be an ally.
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Nobody appointed Qaddafi in 1969............
 
When Iranian people were appealing to the US to help them with human rights issues, Jimmy Carter wrapped his arms around the Shah and declared him our closest ally. That did not work out so well for the Shah, Jimmy Carter, or a lot of people ever since.
 
Fisher said:
When Iranian people were appealing to the US to help them with human rights issues, Jimmy Carter wrapped his arms around the Shah and declared him our closest ally. That did not work out so well for the Shah, Jimmy Carter, or a lot of people ever since.
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He sure did.. and that picture of Carter hugging the Shah was broadcast around the world.

The Shah was ill if you recall... and nobody was paying attention to the student protests in Iran.
 
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