Conservatives Are Finally Admitting What Voter Suppression Laws Are All About

[specklebang]

A poll tax is something you must provide or pay for to the government to physically vote in the booth.

When I drive to the voting location, I must consume gas on which there are federal and state taxes.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Thats beyond the point. You said its provided for free.. Its not..

Please read the post one more time, and do it for comprehension this time...

 

[CanadaJohn]

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How so?
Less people could vote, therefore, less voter fraud?
I would prefer it if more people voted.

Actually, it's much easier to vote multiple times if you don't have to cast all your ballots on the same day.

 

[Woodman909]

Read more @: Conservatives Are Finally Admitting What Voter Suppression Laws Are All About | Mother Jones

Like we already didnt know what this was about. Its about time they actually confess what this fraud called "Voter ID Laws" are about... Voter suppression..

What a crock! Liberals don't want to make it easier to vote, they want to make it easier to cheat. I think unless you are immobile, or out of the area for a valid reason, you should get your a** to the polls and vote in person, with a valid ID, like you use for a million other things. Voting by mail or any other means other than being there in person increases the risk of error and yes, fraud.

 

[sangha]

If I must travel to vote, that is a "poll tax" for my bus fare or my gasoline. So, are we not obligated to make voting completely free of cost without creating an inadvertent poll tax?

I'm gonna call BS on that one

I'd bet dollars to donuts that there's a polling place within walking distance of your home.

 

[sangha]

---------------------
How so?
Less people could vote, therefore, less voter fraud?
I would prefer it if more people voted.

The GOP prefers it when fewer people vote. High turnouts work against the anti-democratic party

 

[Fiddytree]

Aren't socialist all for the people paying for heavy handed government intervention? Gee, you sound like a libertarian.

Social libertarianism is frequently an adopted platform for democratic socialists.

 

[CanadaJohn]

To the people who promote online voting, how do you feel now that the NSA is monitoring internet traffic and there could be the distinct possibility that if you vote online the government may be able to ascertain who you voted for and the implications of that if your candidate loses? Personally, I would never vote online for privacy reasons.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Social libertarianism is frequently an adopted platform for democratic socialists.

Thanks - that's a fair observation - does it justify an aversion to funding state sponsored identification through a user fee?

 

[specklebang]

I'm gonna call BS on that one

I'd bet dollars to donuts that there's a polling place within walking distance of your home.

Depends on your definition of "walking distance" - doesn't it?

How many donuts?

 

[Fiddytree]

But the ID argument as being a "poll tax" can be taken pretty far. Must we provide a voting booth within walking distance of every possible voter?

I don't inherently agree with that line of reasoning either. There is a severe caveat to that, however.

In some states, IDs are (without paperwork and bureaucratic wrangling) between 3-10 dollars. I think this is an acceptable amount of money to pay for the ID. The problem I have with it is that many states have much more expensive IDs. Now, many of those will design free or discount IDs, but that is a more complicated process for many folks, and is not simply bing bang, done.

Now, in my state, IDs are $6. Up until this latest push by my legislature (who is pursuing this for little practical reason), we did not require ID cards in the slightest. Now, in North Dakota there is no voter registration and there is no ID card requirement. For the sake of convenience, voters are asked to pull out their IDs, and a vast majority do. A voter could use an assortment of resources to vote, including a utility bill. If you are not on the list of previous voters, your information is written in a quick few boxes by the staff, and away you go. If you have neither the information nor an ID, a staff member can vouch for you if they claim they can give assurance.

Despite all of the fervor as of late by the legislature, I cannot recall a single news story about the incredible need to protect our vote in the state of North Dakota.

 

[Fiddytree]

Thanks - that's a fair observation - does it justify an aversion to funding state sponsored identification through a user fee?

Those fees would probably be levied through less of an a la cart style, and instead implemented through state funds.

 

[specklebang]

I don't inherently agree with that line of reasoning either. There is a severe caveat to that, however.

In some states, IDs are (without paperwork and bureaucratic wrangling) between 3-10 dollars. I think this is an acceptable amount of money to pay for the ID. The problem I have with it is that many states have much more expensive IDs. Now, many of those will design free or discount IDs, but that is a more complicated process for many folks, and is not simply bing bang, done.

Now, in my state, IDs are $6. Up until this latest push by my legislature (who is pursuing this for little practical reason), we did not require ID cards in the slightest. Now, in North Dakota there is no voter registration and there is no ID card requirement. For the sake of convenience, voters are asked to pull out their IDs, and a vast majority do. A voter could use an assortment of resources to vote, including a utility bill. If you are not on the list of previous voters, your information is written in a quick few boxes by the staff, and away you go. If you have neither the information nor an ID, a staff member can vouch for you if they claim they can give assurance.

Despite all of the fervor as of late by the legislature, I cannot recall a single news story about the incredible need to protect our vote in the state of North Dakota.

Then maybe all states that require ID should have to issue ID at no charge.

 

[Fiddytree]

Then maybe all states that require ID should have to issue ID at no charge.

Perhaps, but would voters want to pass such an expense? Would the state find that it needs to raise monies from other sources in order to keep funding other programs?

Though this is probably far less tricky, on the national level, when there was a big push for a national ID as a result of counter-terrorism, cost became a major issue (along with ethnic/racial tensions and bureaucratic agencies refusing to take charge of such a program).

 

[davidtaylorjr]

Read more @: Conservatives Are Finally Admitting What Voter Suppression Laws Are All About | Mother Jones

Like we already didnt know what this was about. Its about time they actually confess what this fraud called "Voter ID Laws" are about... Voter suppression..

Early voting is stupid. We have election day for a reason. And what if something major happens between the time early voting starts and the actual election that changes peoples minds? Early voting (minus legitimate absentee) needs to be abolished across the board.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Depends on your definition of "walking distance" - doesn't it?

How many donuts?

Clearly, he's not concerned about the handicapped, many of whom can't walk.

 

[specklebang]

Perhaps, but would voters want to pass such an expense? Would the state find that it needs to raise monies from other sources in order to keep funding other programs?

You mean the expense of not charging for a state ID to the relatively small number of citizens who have no ID? Shouldn't be overwhelming to the budget. They already issue this ID - so they don't have to invent it. Just fill out the form that says I want ID but I have no money. I doubt the cost would exceed the salary of one or two worthless bureaucrats.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Those fees would probably be levied through less of an a la cart style, and instead implemented through state funds.

Since there are a little over 300 million people in America and you claim that most states can handle producing these ID cards for under $10, why not have the federal government fund it. I'm willing to bet that the good folks in Washington waste $3 billion on nonsense almost every week - why not put it to good use?

Could be like a birth certificate, something that doesn't expire.

 

[Fiddytree]

You mean the expense of not charging for a state ID to the relatively small number of citizens who have no ID? Shouldn't be overwhelming to the budget. They already issue this ID - so they don't have to invent it. Just fill out the form that says I want ID but I have no money. I doubt the cost would exceed the salary of one or two worthless bureaucrats.

What I read was "give at no charge" flatly, with no qualifiers. Yes, as far as I know, states that have a voter ID requirement have some program or another to receive at least discount rates. However, as I had already stated, there is actually still controversy surrounding the ease at which one can actually get the ID in their hand.

 

[sangha]

Clearly, he's not concerned about the handicapped, many of whom can't walk.

The govt provides the handicapped with free transportation

Not that you're concerned with the facts

 

[sangha]

You mean the expense of not charging for a state ID to the relatively small number of citizens who have no ID? Shouldn't be overwhelming to the budget. They already issue this ID - so they don't have to invent it. Just fill out the form that says I want ID but I have no money. I doubt the cost would exceed the salary of one or two worthless bureaucrats.

I agree. I think the expense that Fiddy referred to was more the result of coming up with a new type of ID that would be (nearly) impossible to forge.

 

[Fiddytree]

Since there are a little over 300 million people in America and you claim that most states can handle producing these ID cards for under $10, why not have the federal government fund it. I'm willing to bet that the good folks in Washington waste $3 billion on nonsense almost every week - why not put it to good use?

During the Bush administration, there was immense discussion over a national ID. The DHS Secretary at that time flatly stated that DHS has no legal purview to do it. The subsequent DHS Secretary also reiterated legal jurisdiction. No other agency, as far as I know (including Social Security), wanted to step up to the plate or could claim it could do so. Next, cost was an enormous burden. The expected costs for the IDs, to the individual taxpayer, was to exceed that of a passport (which is incredibly beyond cost of any state ID), in large part, due to the necessary security features of the card.

 

[sangha]

What I read was "give at no charge" flatly, with no qualifiers. Yes, as far as I know, states that have a voter ID requirement have some program or another to receive at least discount rates. However, as I had already stated, there is actually still controversy surrounding the ease at which one can actually get the ID in their hand.

My understanding is that the biggest problem with ID's, even free ones, are that there are a lot of people who have no proof of birth, and therefore cannot prove that they are even citizens. The problem is particularly centered around poor and old minority members who were born at a time when their births were not recorded by the govt. Many of them were birthed at home, and was not recorded officially.

In other cases, the birth records are in another state making it more difficult for them to access them.

 

[specklebang]

What I read was "give at no charge" flatly, with no qualifiers. Yes, as far as I know, states that have a voter ID requirement have some program or another to receive at least discount rates. However, as I had already stated, there is actually still controversy surrounding the ease at which one can actually get the ID in their hand.

I agree. I think the expense that Fiddy referred to was more the result of coming up with a new type of ID that would be (nearly) impossible to forge.

Oh good. We're all on the same page. Let the state decide - and if they demand ID, they must provide the sme standard ID they provide now for FREE if the person requesting it won't pay. Even if you can afford it, if you're willing to sign that you can't afford it - how much can it possibly cost?

 

[Fiddytree]

My understanding is that the biggest problem with ID's, even free ones, are that there are a lot of people who have no proof of birth, and therefore cannot prove that they are even citizens. The problem is particularly centered around poor and old minority members who were born at a time when their births were not recorded by the govt. Many of them were birthed at home, and was not recorded officially.

In other cases, the birth records are in another state making it more difficult for them to access them.

There is that as well.