Clinton’s loss is one more nail in the coffin of center-left politics in the West

[j-mac]

PARIS — When Donald Trump shocked the world with an upset victory in the U.S. presidential election this month, much of Europe was aghast.But in at least one critical sense, the result couldn’t have been more European: Across the continent, parties of the center-left that have dominated politics for decades — and that have given Europe its reputation for generous social welfare systems — now find themselves beaten, divided and directionless. Hillary Clinton and the Democrats are just the latest members of a beleaguered club.
In Germany and Britain, once-mighty center-left parties have been badly diminished, locked out of their nations’ top jobs for the foreseeable future. In Spain and Greece, they have been usurped by newer, more radical alternatives. And in France and Italy, they’re still governing — but their days in power may be numbered. The rout of the center-left has even extended deep into Scandinavia, perhaps the world’s premier bastion of social democracy.
Overall, the total vote share for the continent’s traditional center-left parties is now at its lowest level since at least World War II. Like the Democrats, these parties have been marginalized, with little influence over policy as the right prepares to place its stamp on the Western world in a way that could endure for decades.
“If the left and the center-left don’t get their act together, then we’re looking at a period of very unstable right-wing hegemony,” said Alex Callinicos, a European studies professor at King’s College London.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/clintons-loss-is-one-more-nail-in-the-coffin-of-center-left-politics-in-the-west/2016/11/24/44229664-ab3d-11e6-8f19-21a1c65d2043_story.html

One more hand wringing article that proves that the liberal left is on its way out, and that Marxist influenced liberalism/progressivism doesn't work when the light is shinned in....thoughts?

 

[Gathomas88]

One more hand wringing article that proves that the liberal left is on its way out, and that Marxist influenced liberalism/progressivism doesn't work when the light is shinned in....thoughts?

"Right Wing hegemony," you say?

 

[Redress]

One more hand wringing article that proves that the liberal left is on its way out, and that Marxist influenced liberalism/progressivism doesn't work when the light is shinned in....thoughts?

Gee, you sound just like a lot of democrats 8 years ago. Combine that with a complete ignorance of what the "liberal left" is or believes, and your post is a hilarious fail.

 

[j-mac]

Gee, you sound just like a lot of democrats 8 years ago. Combine that with a complete ignorance of what the "liberal left" is or believes, and your post is a hilarious fail.

Oh, I have a pretty good handle on it....Y'all aren't that clever, or complicated anymore....:lamo

 

[j-mac]

"Right Wing hegemony," you say?

lol...

 

[Bob N]

One more hand wringing article that proves that the liberal left is on its way out, and that Marxist influenced liberalism/progressivism doesn't work when the light is shinned in....thoughts?

Gee, you sound just like a lot of democrats 8 years ago. Combine that with a complete ignorance of what the "liberal left" is or believes, and your post is a hilarious fail.

This is OK. I have seen several threads about this (Liberals are dead.) Wait and see how Trump will not get cooperation from the GOP Congress for a lot of that craziness he sold the Trump voters out there. It will remind me of Obama's first 2 years in office--but probably worse for Trump.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Gee, you sound just like a lot of democrats 8 years ago. Combine that with a complete ignorance of what the "liberal left" is or believes, and your post is a hilarious fail.

Yep. I remember being told that the GOP was being relegated to being a regional party with no power or influence rather than a viable national party, and that conservatism was a dying mental illness that would be nothing but a footnote in future history books.

Conservatism and the GOP were dead, until they weren't, and liberalism and the Democratic party are dead, until they aren't.

All this "___________" (fill in the blank) is failing and dying as we speak, is just foolishness and self delusion. As it was in 2008, 2012, and now in 2016.

 

[Redress]

Oh, I have a pretty good handle on it....Y'all aren't that clever, or complicated anymore....:lamo

That you actually believe that is why you fail in such hilarious ways.

 

[Ahlevah]

Gee, you sound just like a lot of democrats 8 years ago. Combine that with a complete ignorance of what the "liberal left" is or believes, and your post is a hilarious fail.

Here's my impression:

The "Liberal Left" is at its best when playing the "identity politics" card, i.e. anyone who isn't an able-bodied, native-born, white, Anglo-Saxon Protestant, straight male is classified as a "privileged person" who, if he strives to define and enforce his own identity, is then referred to as a "bigot." For the "Liberal Left," there's normally an "us" against a "them," whether it's racist white cops against aggrieved blacks, bigoted members of the "Religious Right" against gays, nativists against immigrants, men against women, rich against poor, "greedy" corporations against everybody, or some other societal bogeyman. Rarely do they attempt to emphasize those traits that unify us as a nation or people. Their normal state is to search for a victim and then proffer government as the remedy.

That covers about 90% of it, IMHO.

 

[TurtleDude]

Here's my impression:

The "Liberal Left" is at its best when playing the "identity politics" card, i.e. anyone who isn't an able-bodied, native-born, white, Anglo-Saxon Protestant, straight male is classified as a "privileged person" who, if he strives to define and enforce his own identity, is then referred to as a "bigot." For the "Liberal Left," there's normally an "us" against a "them," whether it's racist white cops against aggrieved blacks, bigoted members of the "Religious Right" against gays, nativists against immigrants, men against women, rich against poor, "greedy" corporations against everybody, or some other societal bogeyman. Rarely do they attempt to emphasize those traits that unify us as a nation or people. Their normal state is to search for a victim and then proffer government as the remedy.

That covers about 90% of it, IMHO.

The late great Moderate David Broder, noted that after the USSR fell, the American left turned its collective energy from trying to emulate the soviet Union to engaging in an effort to Balkanize America as the USSR had done to the satellite nations and create warring factions of special interest groups in America that would all look to the Democrat party to award them spoils and favors

 

[Crosscheck]

One more hand wringing article that proves that the liberal left is on its way out, and that Marxist influenced liberalism/progressivism doesn't work when the light is shinned in....thoughts?

Time will tell how long Trump remains as your Holy Messiah before he becomes a RINO.

 

[TurtleDude]

Time will tell how long Trump remains as your Holy Messiah before he becomes a RINO.

View attachment 67210341

hard to say given his history but the selection of Pence and some of his current cabinet suggests that the fears he was a RINO might have been overblown/ The first signal other than the cabinet might well be who he selects to fill the late A Scalia's seat on the USSC. I suspect the choice will be far better than the one Obama tried to appoint

 

[Fenton]

Time will tell how long Trump remains as your Holy Messiah before he becomes a RINO.

View attachment 67210341

Considering his cabinet positions so far and his VP pick that may take a-while

 

[Anagram]

One more hand wringing article that proves that the liberal left is on its way out, and that Marxist influenced liberalism/progressivism doesn't work when the light is shinned in....thoughts?

This is the overplay your hand and lose everything strategy the Democrats employed after they controlled everything in 2008. The Republicans beat a scandal plagued, horribly unpopular opponent for the presidency. They lost the popular vote by a fair amount, and 1.1% in four states was the difference between Trump getting 300 EVs and losing 300 EVs. They only won the popular vote in the House by 2.5%.

It was a good win for them. And now they do control everything. But treating it like it was an overwhelming rejection of the Democrats and that they're on the way out forever, is not a terrible strategy. In 2008 the Democrats had a 10% bigger margin in the presidency and a 5% bigger margin in the House and even that didn't turn out to be a true mandate for their policies.

Republicans should be mindful of where they stand. Don't trade the long term for the short term.

 

[yankintx]

One more hand wringing article that proves that the liberal left is on its way out, and that Marxist influenced liberalism/progressivism doesn't work when the light is shinned in....thoughts?

Clinton still has the popular vote, and Obama has high approval ratings, sonething a GOP Pres can only dream of, your prognosis of the progressive movement death is incorrect.

 

[NonoBadDog]

One more hand wringing article that proves that the liberal left is on its way out, and that Marxist influenced liberalism/progressivism doesn't work when the light is shinned in....thoughts?

We know Clinton was big bank candidate that had two positions. The country voted against that. We can only hope that Trump isn't just blowing smoke up our skirt. I really hope the Democratic party gets their collective head out of their ass. We really need both sides for a good balance. It's never good when one side has free reign. That side usually tends to go overboard.

 

[eohrnberger]

This is OK. I have seen several threads about this (Liberals are dead.) Wait and see how Trump will not get cooperation from the GOP Congress for a lot of that craziness he sold the Trump voters out there. It will remind me of Obama's first 2 years in office--but probably worse for Trump.

I have no doubt that the parties will remain, but they are going to change if they are going to flourish and thrive.

If we consider the first rejection of the political elite and the mess they’ve made of things, you should consider the surprise BrExit vote in the UK. Again, in similar fashion, all the polls and pollsters asserted that BrExit would go down in defeat, but didn’t.

In the US presidential general election, the political elite, establishment candidate, again with all the polls and pollsters claiming a lead, a victory as a near certainty, also surprised everyone when the political elite, the establishment candidate went down in defeat.

Seems that the political elite, the political establishment, the proponents of globalists and liberal / progressive policies are being handed political defeats in rapid succession. It would be legitimate to consider these votes as a repudiation of the liberal / progressive, the globalist, their current political elite agenda.

The next one to keep your eye on is Marine Le Pen in France, who’s policies, concerns, and talking points seem to mirror similar ones as those expressed by Trump.

So clearly, the Democratic party is going to change, reengage with the segments of the electorate that they have forsaken.

Just have to look at facts:

Stunning Graph Shows the Wrecking Ball Obama Has Taken to the Democrat Party

How long can apolitical party survive on the current trajectory and influence without changing, adapting?

 

[Kobie]

Yep. I remember being told that the GOP was being relegated to being a regional party with no power or influence rather than a viable national party, and that conservatism was a dying mental illness that would be nothing but a footnote in future history books.

Conservatism and the GOP were dead, until they weren't, and liberalism and the Democratic party are dead, until they aren't.

All this "___________" (fill in the blank) is failing and dying as we speak, is just foolishness and self delusion. As it was in 2008, 2012, and now in 2016.

I also remember being told after the GOP defeated Kerry in 2004 (or perhaps it was the 2002 midterms) that the Dems were toast FOREVER and Rove was bragging about ushering in a "permanent Republican majority" for a century.

Voters are fickle creatures.

 

[NonoBadDog]

hard to say given his history but the selection of Pence and some of his current cabinet suggests that the fears he was a RINO might have been overblown/ The first signal other than the cabinet might well be who he selects to fill the late A Scalia's seat on the USSC. I suspect the choice will be far better than the one Obama tried to appoint

Obama hasn't had a real good record when it comes to picking people.
Eric K. Shinseki (fired)
Kathleen Sebelius (fired)
Keith B. Alexander (fired)
Lois Lerner (fired)
Lanny Breuer (fired)
Lisa Jackson (resigned, caught using cover civilian email account to avoid FOIAs)
Hillary Rodham Clinton (sucked)
David Petraeus (fired)
Rahm Emanuel (sucked)
Gregory B. Craig (fired)

 

[NonoBadDog]

I have no doubt that the parties will remain, but they are going to change if they are going to flourish and thrive.

If we consider the first rejection of the political elite and the mess they’ve made of things, you should consider the surprise BrExit vote in the UK. Again, in similar fashion, all the polls and pollsters asserted that BrExit would go down in defeat, but didn’t.

In the US presidential general election, the political elite, establishment candidate, again with all the polls and pollsters claiming a lead, a victory as a near certainty, also surprised everyone when the political elite, the establishment candidate went down in defeat.

Seems that the political elite, the political establishment, the proponents of globalists and liberal / progressive policies are being handed political defeats in rapid succession. It would be legitimate to consider these votes as a repudiation of the liberal / progressive, the globalist, their current political elite agenda.

The next one to keep your eye on is Marine Le Pen in France, who’s policies, concerns, and talking points seem to mirror similar ones as those expressed by Trump.

So clearly, the Democratic party is going to change, reengage with the segments of the electorate that they have forsaken.

Just have to look at facts:



How long can apolitical party survive on the current trajectory and influence without changing, adapting?

The Republicans need to keep that in mind so they don't learn that lesson the hard way.

 

[upsideguy]

Obama hasn't had a real good record when it comes to picking people.
Eric K. Shinseki (fired)
Kathleen Sebelius (fired)
Keith B. Alexander (fired)
Lois Lerner (fired)
Lanny Breuer (fired)
Lisa Jackson (resigned, caught using cover civilian email account to avoid FOIAs)
Hillary Rodham Clinton (sucked)
David Petraeus (fired)
Rahm Emanuel (sucked)
Gregory B. Craig (fired)

If those are his only personnel failures, then he did pretty well.

 

[upsideguy]

One more hand wringing article that proves that the liberal left is on its way out, and that Marxist influenced liberalism/progressivism doesn't work when the light is shinned in....thoughts?

If the 2016 election were about America moving right, then Trump never would have been the nominee.

If America was truly demanding a move to the right, then a real conservative would have been the nominee and would have been elected President, with the popular vote. That is not what happened. Instead, we get Trump, who really has no ideology. He was was elected within the party as an outsider and then elected in the national election as an outsider. Turning this into some type of indictment on the left is really an overreach, particularly since the "left" won the overall vote.

There was nothing 'convincing' about his 2016 win other than the electorate deemed that someone that never served in government was preferable to those that made a career out of it. At best, Trump had a narrow win, which is more of a testament to how divided we are, not how we are affirmatively moving in one direction or another. Telling us the voters repudiated anything is nonsensical....


It will take at least one term to understand why people voted for Trump over a dozen and a half more qualified candidates..... as an "outsider", particularly given that he considered himself a Democrat as recently as eight years ago, he is most certainly going to disappoint the Conservatives and Liberals alike from time to time.

(not to mention, this never was an election about issues... it was an election about candidate personality flaws. There was no right/left in a discussion of personality flaws). I wish people would not over-analyze this as they are usually just shooting from the hip; making an emotional argument that is inconsistent with the facts.

You and I and everyone else are just going to have to wait and see what all this means.

 

[NonoBadDog]

If those are his only personnel failures, then he did pretty well.

Just pointing out that nobody is perfect. That is a partial list of the crappy people he picked. Shinseki ran the VA. Thousands of veterans have died waiting for medical care under his leadership. That is a pretty huge failure. I just picked the first one off the list. It's ironic that people are already complaining about Trump's picks. People seem to have pretty short memories.

 

[upsideguy]

Just pointing out that nobody is perfect. That is a partial list of the crappy people he picked. Shinseki ran the VA. Thousands of veterans have died waiting for medical care under his leadership. That is a pretty huge failure. I just picked the first one off the list. It's ironic that people are already complaining about Trump's picks. People seem to have pretty short memories.

Indeed. I want to see the entire Trump cabinet and staff before I draw any conclusions. I also want to see how Trump responds to his first crisis, communicates with the American people and shows his 100 day agenda before I start making comments as to whether he is tracking well or failing.

Compared to the staffing of most Presidents (usually wrought with turnover of cabinet level positions), Obama actually had remarkable consistency in his team.

 

[NonoBadDog]

Indeed. I want to see the entire Trump cabinet and staff before I draw any conclusions. I also want to see how Trump responds to his first crisis, communicates with the American people and shows his 100 day agenda before I start making comments as to whether he is tracking well or failing.

Compared to the staffing of most Presidents (usually wrought with turnover of cabinet level positions), Obama actually had remarkable consistency in his team.

Some are going to screw up. I want to see how he handles that.