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Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Schweddy

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Wow, this is some crazy stuff!! Unsure if I actually believe in global warming per say,but I do agree that we need to keep our house clean. Regardless of your position on the idea, this is an interesting read.

If you own any shares in alternative energy companies I should start dumping them NOW. The conspiracy behind the Anthropogenic Global Warming myth (aka AGW; aka ManBearPig) has been suddenly, brutally and quite deliciously exposed after a hacker broke into the computers at the University of East Anglia’s Climate Research Unit (aka Hadley CRU) and released 61 megabites of confidential files onto the internet. (Hat tip: Watts Up With That)

When you read some of those files – including 1079 emails and 72 documents – you realise just why the boffins at Hadley CRU might have preferred to keep them confidential. As Andrew Bolt puts it, this scandal could well be “the greatest in modern science”. These alleged emails – supposedly exchanged by some of the most prominent scientists pushing AGW theory – suggest:

Conspiracy, collusion in exaggerating warming data, possibly illegal destruction of embarrassing information, organised resistance to disclosure, manipulation of data, private admissions of flaws in their public claims and much more.

One of the alleged emails has a gentle gloat over the death in 2004 of John L Daly (one of the first climate change sceptics, founder of the Still Waiting For Greenhouse site), commenting:

“In an odd way this is cheering news.”

But perhaps the most damaging revelations – the scientific equivalent of the Telegraph’s MPs’ expenses scandal – are those concerning the way Warmist scientists may variously have manipulated or suppressed evidence in order to support their cause.

Here are a few tasters. (So far, we can only refer to them as alleged emails because – though Hadley CRU’s director Phil Jones has confirmed the break-in to Ian Wishart at the Briefing Room – he has yet to fess up to any specific contents.) But if genuine, they suggest dubious practices such as:

Manipulation of evidence:


I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.
Much more than you could hope for here: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of ‘Anthropogenic Global Warming’? – Telegraph Blogs
 
I would need to see more than a telegraph article to question the past decade of research. Even if anthropogenic warming is false, human pollution and habitat encroachment is still destroying the planet, therefore there is no excuse.
 
Wow, this is some crazy stuff!! Unsure if I actually believe in global warming per say,but I do agree that we need to keep our house clean. Regardless of your position on the idea, this is an interesting read.


Much more than you could hope for here: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of ‘Anthropogenic Global Warming’? – Telegraph Blogs
To be honest this is not really news to me, policy has been the push behind this "science" for some time now. And you can already see that some people just don't want to have to deal with inconvenient facts and would rather admonish you to ignore the same and read the facts they are comfortable with you familiarizing yourself. Chuckle.
 
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Realclimate answers this well, but I don't want to paste a long read:

RealClimate: The CRU hack

snippet:

More interesting is what is not contained in the emails. There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research, no grand plan to ‘get rid of the MWP’, no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from our socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords. The truly paranoid will put this down to the hackers also being in on the plot though.

Instead, there is a peek into how scientists actually interact and the conflicts show that the community is a far cry from the monolith that is sometimes imagined. People working constructively to improve joint publications; scientists who are friendly and agree on many of the big picture issues, disagreeing at times about details and engaging in ‘robust’ discussions; Scientists expressing frustration at the misrepresentation of their work in politicized arenas and complaining when media reports get it wrong; Scientists resenting the time they have to take out of their research to deal with over-hyped nonsense. None of this should be shocking.
 
Realclimate answers this well, but I don't want to paste a long read:

RealClimate: The CRU hack

snippet:
And so ya know, even thought it appears that some outright lying and fabrication might be exposed in all of this, it is not really a big deal! Just all a part of the scientific process, continue to push on as if this was the case!:doh
 
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And so ya know, even thought it appears that some outright lying and fabrication might be exposed in all of this, it is not really a big deal! Just all a part of the scientific process, continue to push on as if this was the case!:doh

If there was anything like that, then yes, the scientific process flushes out all the B.S.
2+2 will always equal 4, no matter how much poo the deniers fling at the wall. :hitsfan:
 
If there was anything like that, then yes, the scientific process flushes out all the B.S.
2+2 will always equal 4, no matter how much poo the deniers fling at the wall. :hitsfan:
Laughably redundant indulgence on your part there sir and hardly very thoughtful. Me, I think I'll wait to see what really shakes out of the investigation of this matter before I'll start paying attention to those rushing to say, nothing here move along, pay no attention to the men behind the curtains and their "special" calculators! Of course as an admitted passionate adherent of AGW, opps it has been changed to "climate change" now, it is not surprising that you feel compelled to try to rationalize away the possible implications of this story. :wink2:


The OP question has already been answered. Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'? Clearly the answer is no, this information like all inconvenient information not in lock step agreement with the AGW theory is ignored and dismissed. Usually by people arguing that AGW skeptics are ignoring or dismissing critical data and information.

And the kazoo band played on..................
 
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Of course as an admitted passionate adherent of AGW, opps it has been changed to "climate change" now, it is not surprising that you feel compelled to try to rationalize away the possible implications of this story.

I'm only an adherent to science and best evidence.

If there were any substantive arguments that altered the current science from these emails, I would welcome them.

My motto, in all things, is the old maxim: "Let justice be done though the heavens fall.”
 
I'm only an adherent to science and best evidence.

If there were any substantive arguments that altered the current science from these emails, I would welcome them.

My motto, in all things, is the old maxim: "Let justice be done though the heavens fall.”
You're only the same person who in the first reply to this thread tried to dismiss the story as happy horse****. You missed out, purposefully and clearly knee jerkedly, that the point of the story is that as has often been charged, there appears to be some happy horse**** afoot.

Happy horse**** like these items in the story:


When you read some of those files – including 1079 emails and 72 documents – you realise just why the boffins at Hadley CRU might have preferred to keep them confidential. As Andrew Bolt puts it, this scandal could well be “the greatest in modern science”. These alleged emails – supposedly exchanged by some of the most prominent scientists pushing AGW theory – suggest:
Conspiracy, collusion in exaggerating warming data, possibly illegal destruction of embarrassing information, organised resistance to disclosure, manipulation of data, private admissions of flaws in their public claims and much more.
One of the alleged emails has a gentle gloat over the death in 2004 of John L Daly (one of the first climate change sceptics, founder of the Still Waiting For Greenhouse site), commenting:
“In an odd way this is cheering news.”
But perhaps the most damaging revelations – the scientific equivalent of the Telegraph’s MPs’ expenses scandal – are those concerning the way Warmist scientists may variously have manipulated or suppressed evidence in order to support their cause.
Here are a few tasters. (So far, we can only refer to them as alleged emails because – though Hadley CRU’s director Phil Jones has confirmed the break-in to Ian Wishart at the Briefing Room – he has yet to fess up to any specific contents.) But if genuine, they suggest dubious practices such as:


Manipulation of evidence:
I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.
Private doubts about whether the world really is heating up:
The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t. The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our observing system is inadequate.
Suppression of evidence:
Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4?
Keith will do likewise. He’s not in at the moment – minor family crisis.
Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same? I don’t have his new email address.
We will be getting Caspar to do likewise.
Fantasies of violence against prominent Climate Sceptic scientists:
Next
time I see Pat Michaels at a scientific meeting, I’ll be tempted to beat
the crap out of him. Very tempted.
Attempts to disguise the inconvenient truth of the Medieval Warm Period (MWP):
……Phil and I have recently submitted a paper using about a dozen NH records that fit this category, and many of which are available nearly 2K back–I think that trying to adopt a timeframe of 2K, rather than the usual 1K, addresses a good earlier point that Peck made w/ regard to the memo, that it would be nice to try to “contain” the putative “MWP”, even if we don’t yet have a hemispheric mean reconstruction available that far back….
And, perhaps most reprehensibly, a long series of communications discussing how best to squeeze dissenting scientists out of the peer review process. How, in other words, to create a scientific climate in which anyone who disagrees with AGW can be written off as a crank, whose views do not have a scrap of authority.
“This was the danger of always criticising the skeptics for not publishing in the “peer-reviewed literature”. Obviously, they found a solution to that–take over a journal! So what do we do about this? I think we have to stop considering “Climate Research” as a legitimate peer-reviewed journal. Perhaps we should encourage our colleagues in the climate research community to no longer submit to, or cite papers in, this journal. We would also need to consider what we tell or request of our more reasonable colleagues who currently sit on the editorial board…What do others think?”
“I will be emailing the journal to tell them I’m having nothing more to do with it until they rid themselves of this troublesome editor.”“It results from this journal having a number of editors. The responsible one for this is a well-known skeptic in NZ. He has let a few papers through by Michaels and Gray in the past. I’ve had words with Hans von Storch about this, but got nowhere. Another thing to discuss in Nice !”

So if you are all about the science, then you should be concerned at what may have just been uncovered here. :doh
 
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It's over. AGW has been pushed long enough. Expect the green movement to decline into human history, forever.

AGW...is dead.

gotcha ;)
 
This is HUGE. Prominent climate researchers manipulating data. What was it said:

Conspiracy, collusion in exaggerating warming data, possibly illegal destruction of embarrassing information, organised resistance to disclosure, manipulation of data, private admissions of flaws in their public claims and much more.

The email where they colluded with the researcher in Colorado is evidence that this goes beyond this facility. Quite damning. If they are manipulating data (and evidently won't produce their raw data) then how are we to trust their analysis and conclusions in light of these events?
 
You're only the same person who in the first reply to this thread tried to dismiss the story as happy horse****.

Yes, it appears to be.

Manipulation of evidence:[/I]
I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.


If you would add some proper reading comprehension, you'll see that the scientist was pointing out a way to solve a problem, not manipulation of evidence.

again, from realclimate's article:


No doubt, instances of cherry-picked and poorly-worded “gotcha” phrases will be pulled out of context. One example is worth mentioning quickly. Phil Jones in discussing the presentation of temperature reconstructions stated that “I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.” The paper in question is the Mann, Bradley and Hughes (1998) Nature paper on the original multiproxy temperature reconstruction, and the ‘trick’ is just to plot the instrumental records along with reconstruction so that the context of the recent warming is clear. Scientists often use the term “trick” to refer to a “a good way to deal with a problem”, rather than something that is “secret”, and so there is nothing problematic in this at all. As for the ‘decline’, it is well known that Keith Briffa’s maximum latewood tree ring density proxy diverges from the temperature records after 1960 (this is more commonly known as the “divergence problem”–see e.g. the recent discussion in this paper) and has been discussed in the literature since Briffa et al in Nature in 1998 (Nature, 391, 678-682). Those authors have always recommend not using the post 1960 part of their reconstruction, and so while ‘hiding’ is probably a poor choice of words (since it is ‘hidden’ in plain sight), not using the data in the plot is completely appropriate, as is further research to understand why this happens.
 
All depends on whether you're willing to take the risk of being wrong. Can all the deniers leave their name and adress? Those people, yes those people, should be the first to suffer the consequences.

The arrogance of some people, un-******-believable.
 
so while ‘hiding’ is probably a poor choice of words (since it is ‘hidden’ in plain sight), not using the data in the plot is completely appropriate, as is further research to understand why this happens.

Yes, 'hiding' is probably a poor choice of word.

Not using the data in the plot because it inconveniently is mismatched by other data is also dishonest.

The science is shaky.

We should not accept any paper on climate change or AGW unless it publishes the raw data and any derived values used to reach their conclusions.
 
All depends on whether you're willing to take the risk of being wrong. Can all the deniers leave their name and adress? Those people, yes those people, should be the first to suffer the consequences.

The arrogance of some people, un-******-believable.

If this horse **** actually turns out to be a genuine TEOTWAWKI disaster, I'll be first in line to say "I was wrong, so shoot me."

I have no fear at all of this actually happening. Global warming as a man-made disaster is a bunch of BS.
 
climategate.jpg
 
You can read the emails HERE
 
After reviewing a few web pages of email it seems to me these guys were very paranoid of the Freedom Of Information Act.
 
:rofl Geez,why would'nt you want that info released?

PS I'm getting hassled by a couple of people to release the CRU station temperature data.
Don't any of you three tell anybody that the UK has a Freedom of Information Act !

Alleged CRU Emails - Searchable
 
I've lost faith in science.
Don't.

Science has a come a long way, from the Aristotle, to Newton, to Einstein. Science is the mere search for truth through all means and facets possible.

the problem here isn't science, the problem here are scientists who are now, despite all their degrees and claims to fame, are just people like us, greedy and politically motivated. They are wrong, not science for, science has already spoke against their case long before their e-mails; people are just paying attention to it now.
 
Don't.

Science has a come a long way, from the Aristotle, to Newton, to Einstein. Science is the mere search for truth through all means and facets possible.

the problem here isn't science, the problem here are scientists who are now, despite all their degrees and claims to fame, are just people like us, greedy and politically motivated. They are wrong, not science for, science has already spoke against their case long before their e-mails; people are just paying attention to it now.
That's the same problem with religious leaders too.

It's all greed and selfishness.
 
That's the same problem with religious leaders too.

It's all greed and selfishness.

I spend time trying to find religious leaders in my community(out of the hundreds here in Longview) that preach the way my book says to preach. When a preacher says "God says, Donate to the church, vote republican, and you will go to heaven", that's usually the first sign he don't care about the religion.

Likewise, when scientists run around going "Science says that if you turn green and vote democrat, the world will be saved", that's usually a sign that they are indeed all for "going green", a different kind of green, to be sure.($$$$$$)
 
Yes, it appears to be.
Like I said, knee jerk. Thanks for illustrating.:mrgreen:
If you would add some proper reading comprehension, you'll see that the scientist was pointing out a way to solve a problem, not manipulation of evidence.

again, from realclimate's article:
I'm about as interested in Real Climate's spin and instant dismissal of this inconvenient turn of events as I am yours. But hey, in the originality department, way to go with that whole "if you would add some reading comprehension" comment. You just never see that on the internet.

You may now return to trying tell us that this is no big deal. Lies, omissions and outright deception are all part of the "good science" you spoke of, so this just does not concern you.:applaud
 
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