Hicup
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2009
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- Rochester, NY
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It is not "DIRECTLY" responsible.
Umm.. In case you missed it, EIT was responsible, DIRECTLY responsible for the eventual capture of Bin Laden. It also lead to many interceptions of various terrorists plots purported to have been planned against the USA during the past 9 years.. KSM talked, various other Muslim's talked..
I would disagree then. An immoral act for any reason is still an immoral act. It may be justified for the greater good, though. Such as stealing food to feed your family. You did good with the stealing, but you still stole.
A former federal agent who was involved in the interrogation of terrorism suspects said in congressional testimony Wednesday that the harsh techniques used by the Bush administration were ineffective and unreliable.
Ali Soufan told a Senate judicial committee that al-Qaeda operatives were trained to resist the harsh methods, including waterboarding, and argued that conventional interrogations were much more reliable in extracting information.
FBI Expert Refutes GOP Claims on Torture Effectiveness (video) (Wizbang Blue)
Sure it was. It lead to the couriers as the intelligence approach for capturing/killing bin laden.
The courier is what lead us directly to bin laden.. Win!
Tim-
I wonder if any the pro-EIT people are aware that terrorists--at least the ones in the top levels of an organization--are trained to resist ig methods like waterboarding.
I don't think waterboarding three terrorists under ticking-bomb circumstances constitutes a loss of humanity, decency or morality.
One reason why other methods are more commonly used is because they are largely more effective.
Cite evidence (from an authoritative source who is free to speak his mind) that waterboarding caused KSM to talk, or that anything he said directly contributed to OBL's death (assuming the raid happened as the US described it).
Only such a situation doesn't real exist in the real world. To have exactly the right person with exactly the right information is more than a little unlikely. Secondly, all the person has to do is lie, which is what is common. Meaning we likely could not get anything in time. One reason why other methods are more commonly used is because they are largely more effective.
I wonder if any the pro-EIT people are aware that terrorists--at least the ones in the top levels of an organization--are trained to resist ig methods like waterboarding.
CNSNews.com - CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles
I guess this settles the debate on whether or not waterboarding works. Saved lives, caught terrorist. Good thing really.
Did anybody think that not all terrorists are alike? One might talk if you just look at him wrong and another might hold secrets to his grave but to say that waterboarding won't work for a single terrorist is assinine at best.
John Yoo
Leon Panetta
Jose Rodriguez
Michael Hayden
George Tenet
All of these individuals have stated that KSM talked, because he was tortured and conventional interrogation methods had failed.
Cite evidence (from an authoritative source who is free to speak his mind) that waterboarding caused KSM to talk, or that anything he said directly contributed to OBL's death (assuming the raid happened as the US described it).
They're not trained to resist sleep depreivation,food deprivation, or electric shock.
CNSNews.com - CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles
I guess this settles the debate on whether or not waterboarding works. Saved lives, caught terrorist. Good thing really.
A former top CIA official pleaded guilty yesterday to lying to Congress about the Reagan administration's secret deals involving arms for Iran and money for the Nicaraguan contras.
Cia Veteran Lied About Iran-contra - Philly.com
Wow really, you pulled this up for a clip from Rummy?
Really?
Problems?????
How many other people were waterboarded and didn't lead to any real information? I mean, you can't speak to any of the statistics; you cherry pick one circumstance and say "Huzzah! Waterboarding is great". It's fairly absurd.
Why is torture an option? :doh
The facts just don't support the conclusion that the EITs were the deciding factor. The facts don't rule it out either.not in the case of ksm, the "preeminent source"
How a Detainee Became An Asset - washingtonpost.com
If you examine their actual quotes, you may find that this isn't exactly so.John Yoo
Leon Panetta
Jose Rodriguez
Michael Hayden
George Tenet
All of these individuals have stated that KSM talked, because he was tortured and conventional interrogation methods had failed.
According to the CIA Office of Medical Services, as quoted in the IG report, what happens in SERE class doesn't compare to what was done in the IETs. IIrc, the actual word used to describe the comparison between SERE classes and what happened in the EITs was "irrelevant.".... most every high ranking afficer we have has been through it.
The facts just don't support the conclusion that the EITs were the deciding factor.
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