Chicago's Black Ghetto

[Hypersonic]

Section 8 housing is all over suburban Chicago and the city of Chicago. All kinds of rental properties throughout the area. There is no excuse for people staying there now except that it's their home.

Pray tell how you have come up with this? I mean, unless you know each and everybody's circumstance, I'm wondering how you presume to state the lack of excuse to NOT stay in section 8 housing.

 

[opendebate]

you will never, ever, ever, ever, end suspicion..never ,ever.
.

you will never, ever, ever, ever, end suspicion..never ,ever.

Of course you won't, but does that mean you do nothing to curb it when it is undeserved?

suspicion primarily comes with unfamiliarity of the actual person, and familiarity with the persona the person is trying to push.
for example, Z didn't know T.. but he was familiar with the "thuggish" look and behavior

Excellent point and well said. I understand the necessity for suspicion, initially, especially in a situation that is potentially threatening. However, taking that further then what is necessary to protect yourself or worse yet you become the aggressor based on nothing more than suspicion is, IMO, another matter.

to be perfectly honest, if TM was in my neighborhood, i'd be suspicious too... any stranger looking shady in my neighborhood with be dealt a hefty amount of suspicion.hell, Z roaming my neighborhood would be suspicious ( i'm in rural country.. ya better advertise who you are and what you want or you'll have eyes on you)

But what is the foundation for legitimate suspicion. Young black males who have no gang affiliation whatsoever often dress in a way that associates them undeservedly. We all know that, unless you live under a rock. So, knowing that, wouldn't you suspect that some kid simply "dressed" a certain way was just as likely to be following fashion as a member of a gang? If you don't temper your actions with reality in this way then, IMO, you are being motivated by something other than reason.

 

[opendebate]

Don't hold your "I care about moronic articles and Zimmerman attention whores" over me.

You can dis the extravaganza of the TM case all you want but it does not damage the legitimacy of the deeper issue in the slightest.

 

[calamity]

If that's what you need to believe to feel good about yourself, *shrug* Just don't expect the rest of us to empathize.

Right, because there is no racism in the USA :roll:

 

[ecofarm]

You can dis the extravaganza of the TM case all you want but it does not damage the legitimacy of the deeper issue in the slightest.

Yes, it does. If you can't see that, it's your problem

 

[opendebate]

Yes, it does. If you can't see that, it's your problem

Brilliant retort.

 

[calamity]

still trying to push the discredited meme that Z is a racist huh?... well, good luck with that.

I didn't say he was. In this society, it's simply a natural response to question why young black man in a hoodie is wandering around a quiet neighborhood at night. This too was the point of the article in the op.

 

[calamity]

Did you READ the links I POSTED.. OR ARE YOU STILL INVENTING YOUR OWN SCENARIO?

I'm interpreting the article cited in the op. I think the author has a point.

 

[ecofarm]

Brilliant retort.

It's all your small-minded dismissal deserved.

 

[Thrilla]

Of course you won't, but does that mean you do nothing to curb it when it is undeserved?

suspicion is rarely, if ever, undeserved.... it may turn out to be unfounded at the end of the day, but it's generally deserved.

Excellent point and well said. I understand the necessity for suspicion, initially, especially in a situation that is potentially threatening. However, taking that further then what is necessary to protect yourself or worse yet you become the aggressor based on nothing more than suspicion is, IMO, another matter.

as long as you are defensive , it's all good... but yeah, becoming the aggressor over simple suspicion is generally wrong.

But what is the foundation for legitimate suspicion. Young black males who have no gang affiliation whatsoever often dress in a way that associates them undeservedly. We all know that, unless you live under a rock. So, knowing that, wouldn't you suspect that some kid simply "dressed" a certain way was just as likely to be following fashion as a member of a gang? If you don't temper your actions with reality in this way then, IMO, you are being motivated by something other than reason.

the foundation for legitimate suspicion is unfamiliarity.
if my kid dresses like a gangbanger, i'm not suspicious, because i know him.
somebody else that i don't know?... they get suspicion.. if the dress shady or thuggish, they get a lot of suspicion...a whole new level.

I agree actions should be tempered, but not suspicion.. let suspicion rip until you are reasonably assured there is no threat.

 

[opendebate]

suspicion is rarely, if ever, undeserved.... it may turn out to be unfounded at the end of the day, but it's generally deserved.



as long as you are defensive , it's all good... but yeah, becoming the aggressor over simple suspicion is generally wrong.



the foundation for legitimate suspicion is unfamiliarity.
if my kid dresses like a gangbanger, i'm not suspicious, because i know him.
somebody else that i don't know?... they get suspicion.. if the dress shady or thuggish, they get a lot of suspicion...a whole new level.

I agree actions should be tempered, but not suspicion.. let suspicion rip until you are reasonably assured there is no threat.

I think we agree

 

[Thrilla]

I didn't say he was. In this society, it's simply a natural response to question why young black man in a hoodie is wandering around a quiet neighborhood at night. This too was the point of the article in the op.

it's a stupid point..... it unnecessarily brings a a single particular race to the forefront... it was intended to. ( gotta push racism... it sensational, so it sells)

listen, if TM was brown, or yella.. or red.. or white... it doesn't really matter..... he was shady and unfamiliar, suspicion was all but guaranteed.
your article makes it sound like this is a phenomenon that relies on the suspicious character being black, and that's just not so.

I am treated with hostile suspicion when I used to walk downtown Vegas at night...black, white, Hispanic.. whatever.. those crackheads, hookers, pimps, pushers, and street urchins didn't know me, they saw a clean cut white dude and thought "cop!!" (especially the tweakers... paranoid sunsabiches)

I deserved their suspicion... I was a stranger in their world... it was no big deal to me, and I did my best to see non-threatening to them ( which is the proper behavior)
most were smart enough not to confront me.... a few were smart enough to confront me cordially.... a couple weren't very smart at all.
oddly enough, I was suspicious of every one of them too...and I watched every move of theirs I could

 

[MaggieD]

But the past creates the present. If you grow up in a poor, uneducated family the evolution out of that cycle (typically) is generational. You can not separate anyone from their personal, familial or community past.

Really? Well, let me tell you about three people's "generational past." They were deserted by their mom when the eldest was 10, middle child was 6 and baby was months old. They were raised by their alcoholic father and his occasional whores. The eldest took the beatings directed at his 6-year-old sister because he couldn't bear to hear her cry. The baby spent days in filthy diapers. They stole food off the streets to eat. From fruit stands was their favorite.

Fast forward to adulthood. The eldest, my dad, never raised a hand to me growing up and only had the occasional beer. (None of the three spanked their children -- much less beat them into submission.) He got his GED when he was 63 years old, proud as punch. Lived a great life and had two very successful children. (Me and my half-sister.)

The middle child is a multi-millionaire. He and the company he started were bought out by Xerox Corporation. He became a venture capitalist and dabbled at whatever he was interested in at the time.

The youngest? A girl? She became a novitiate in a Catholic nunnery when she was 16 years old -- either that or go to jail. She decided not to take her final vows, left the nunnery and shortly got married. She is the brains behind their successful life-long real estate investment career.

Don't talk to me about handicapped beginnings. I've got too much skin in the game.

 

[MaggieD]

Pray tell how you have come up with this? I mean, unless you know each and everybody's circumstance, I'm wondering how you presume to state the lack of excuse to NOT stay in section 8 housing.

I don't understand your last sentence.

 

[MaggieD]

Right, because there is no racism in the USA :roll:

Those twits probably don't even have jobs.

 

[Hypersonic]

I don't understand your last sentence.

In so many words your post stated "there is no excuse why they stay in the ghetto" I am asking you how do you know what the people like in those environments excuse? If there is one.

 

[Fisher]

But the past creates the present. If you grow up in a poor, uneducated family the evolution out of that cycle (typically) is generational. You can not separate anyone from their personal, familial or community past.

It is possible. A lot of people do it. It is not easy, and in some ways requires someone to be driven or inspired enough to go against the grain of their present day for the sake of their future. I think one of the problems in the black community is that when people get out, they do not come back and those left behind are distrusting of white voices and faces trying to tell them how to do better. I think in a lot of ways, they resent/distrust white voices, reasonably or not. Black "leaders" like Jackson and Sharpton have no interest in it.

There are other factors too that contribute. Telling someone who doesn't know anyone who has gone to college about how easy the process is does not make the application and financial aid process any less like Latin because for them it seems more daunting with nobody to help/guide/encourage them. Before 9/11, the military was a good way for minorities to escape the inner city, but not so much now that they have to compete for slots with suburban white kids wanting to get their Patriotism on.

It is a much more difficult path from the ghetto to success than from the suburbs to success, but not impossible. Posts like yours, however, seem like you are making excuses for failure, instead of encouraging progress.

 

[opendebate]

.

Your history is not universal and chances are you did not have the same obstacles other have had to overcome.

 

[opendebate]

...

It is possible. A lot of people do it. It is not easy,

Of course it's possible. Some do it more easily than others. Some through no fault of their own and some because they don't work hard enough or know how to. Some have advantages that assist them which they don't even recognize they had.

Just because you acknowledge the additional burdens that some are faced with does not mean that you are giving those same people an excuse to not work hard. You can expect hard work and acknowledge real obstacles at the same time.

and in some ways requires someone to be driven or inspired enough to go against the grain of their present day for the sake of their future.

Agree, but it takes more than just hard work for many.

I think one of the problems in the black community is that when people get out, they do not come back and those left behind are distrusting of white voices and faces trying to tell them how to do better.

I don't disagree with this.

There are other factors too that contribute. Telling someone who doesn't know anyone who has gone to college about how easy the process is does not make the application and financial aid process any less like Latin because for them it seems more daunting with nobody to help/guide/encourage them. Before 9/11, the military was a good way for minorities to escape the inner city, but not so much now that they have to compete for slots with suburban white kids wanting to get their Patriotism on.

It is a much more difficult path from the ghetto to success than from the suburbs to success, but not impossible. Posts like yours, however, seem like you are making excuses for failure, instead of encouraging progress.

I think that is the way it is read when people see my political identifier. Because you would have to assume that one excludes the other to arrive there. In other words, you have this excuse so you are no longer responsible as opposed to this is an obstacle that has been placed in your way through no fault of your own now let me help you get this out of the way so your hard work can pay off like mine does.

I have said many times, that the foundation of any community outreach should be the principle of teaching a man to fish instead of giving him/her a fish. Anything else is self serving.

 

[babilfish]

Can't say I'm really shocked that the conservatives in this thread couldn't understand a fairly straightforward article that makes a somewhat tired but altogether solid point.

 

[Fisher]

.....

I think that is the way it is read when people see my political identifier. Because you would have to assume that one excludes the other to arrive there. In other words, you have this excuse so you are no longer responsible as opposed to this is an obstacle that has been placed in your way through no fault of your own now let me help you get this out of the way so your hard work can pay off like mine does.

I have said many times, that the foundation of any community outreach should be the principle of teaching a man to fish instead of giving him/her a fish. Anything else is self serving.

No, it what I read because of what you said, specifically your use of "generational". It may take generations to create family wealth and blacks as a whole are clearly at a disadvantage there. It does not take generations to achieve income success. One may not become a millionaire, but they can certainly move into decent middle class jobs with initiative and hardwork--RN's, civil service, even professional positions like accountants and lawyers--themselves. I would contend that on that front, it is more blacks holding blacks back than whites or anything institutional. If you listen to the voices who say you can't or shouldn't, you are just not going to get there. It is too easy to make excuses.

I grew up pretty poor and went to college and grad school on scholarships. Along the way, there were multiple opportunities to settle and a lot of peer pressure to fight against. I elected not to settle and say to hell with peer pressure. It wasn't easy. I made plenty of mistakes along the way, but it was discipline and hard work both in and out of the classroom moreso than smarts, advantages, or anything else that got me there.

That said, I don't disagree about the teaching people to fish thing. I donate computers and software periodically to a faith-based outreach center (i.e. a church) that does a lot of skills training in the black community so people who have never had real access to computers can at least get some exposure to basic things like word-processing and internet, especially older people. They do what they can, but unfortunately "let me show you how to type a proper resume" often takes a backseat to "hey, let's go smoke some weed".

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Short answer: Read the article.

Long Answer: Trayvon was shot for venturing out of the Ghetto where his skin color and hoodie marked him as surely as the yellow star marked a Jew venturing out of Warsaw.

So we went from:

1. Black ghettos
2. Trayvon Martin
3. Jews

What an impressive jump from one retarded conclusion to another.

 

[Mason66]

how do you know Martin thought that? And if you are going to be so forgiving of you own inaccuracies you really should extend the same courtesy to others.

I know because his friend said in an interview that people from where she is from, and where Martin is from, think the term Creepy Ass Cracker means security gaurd.
I am not making things up like this other poster is doing.

 

[Mason66]

idiot george was not a security guard. He was a volunteer who broke all the rules of neighborhood watch.

Security guards wear uniforms... And are trained.

that does not change what martin thought

 

[Mason66]

the "security guard" thing was taken from the prosecutions star witness.... the dumb chick

she's the one who said "crazy ass cracker" means security guard.
( only the really dumb ones believe that.. we all know it refers to a white person)

Let's give Martin the benefit of the doubt that he thought the term meant a security gaurd, or pólice office, and that he was not a piece of **** racist.