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Cheap Grace Theology

Overitall said:
You only assume that the thief would have changed his behavior. At that moment in time his act of asking for mercy was rewarded. Life lessons teach that even though our children disobey us at times doesn't mean they don't love their parents. The flesh is weak. God full well knows this. Thus the necessity of Jesus Christ.

You misunderstand. No where did I state that God's grace is a license to sin. Grace by its very definition is favor from God that is unearned. That favor is highlighted and emphasized through our acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ fulfilling the law. When Jesus was crucified, we were crucified with him. When he was raised from the dead we were raised with him. Our salvation is past tense. The work necessary for it was completely, complete by him. That's why we live by grace, not by the works of the law.

Romans 6:4-7
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
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Overitall said:
You only assume that the thief would have changed his behavior. At that moment in time his act of asking for mercy was rewarded.
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Jesus knew that He wasn't being played the fool by the thief, and if the thief were spared the penalty of death his life would have changed.
That being said: why would God allow those who are anarchists into Heaven?



Overitall said:
You misunderstand. No where did I state that God's grace is a license to sin. Grace by its very definition is favor from God that is unearned.
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You're assuming then that there is no need to repent and all of mankind is allowed into Heaven.

1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 says differently:

" 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were..."

Were before they repented.
 
aCultureWarrior said:
Yep, the heart is followed by actions; actions that either please God or don't.
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That has nothing to do with God reading the heart...He notes the degree of ignorance, negligence, or willful sin and He acts with impartiality...

"But Jehovah said to Samuel: “Do not pay attention to his appearance and how tall he is, for I have rejected him. For the way man sees is not the way God sees, because mere man sees what appears to the eyes, but Jehovah sees into the heart.” 1 Samuel 16:7
 
aCultureWarrior said:
Jesus knew that He wasn't being played the fool by the thief, and if the thief were spared the penalty of death his life would have changed.
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Your argument only holds water if Jesus is God. I reject that theological pov. Jesus, himself, indicated that his knowledge of the future was limited to only what was prophesied.

Mark 13:31-32
31Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
aCultureWarrior said:
That being said: why would God allow those who are anarchists into Heaven?
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You're still focused on the works of men. Grace is unearned favor. If you could earn your way into Heaven God's grace would not be necessary, nor for His son to have died for us.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I only see "belief" being required for "everlasting life". What do you see?
aCultureWarrior said:
You're assuming then that there is no need to repent and all of mankind is allowed into Heaven.
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Again you're misunderstanding my position. I do believe in repentance, but in regards to accepting Jesus Christ as Lord of your life. A person is acknowledging that they need Jesus Christ to be redeemed from the death of sin. Sin is death, both spiritually and physically. This, as I previously outlined, involves our standing in God's family. We are His children through Jesus Christ. Our state (our relationship) is determined by our continued good behavior, confessing our sins when they occur in order to restore our relationship with God. Picture this in the earthly comparison.
aCultureWarrior said:
1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 says differently:

" 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were..."

Were before they repented.
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You need to understand this in context, both the immediate and remote. You excluded the latter part of verse 11, as well as the important point of 12.
 
aCultureWarrior said:
What's an atheist doing in a Christian forum, waiting to talk about Old Testament days?
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The forum is focused on beliefs, not just those of Christians. All are welcomed. As a Christian one should be ready to answer the questions of all, especially those of unbelievers.

1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
 
code1211 said:
Still dismissive, I see.

Who is the atheist to whom you refer?
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I lump God-haters with atheists. Why do you hate God so much, so much that you have no desire to defend His Word?
 
Overitall said:
The forum is focused on beliefs, not just those of Christians. All are welcomed. As a Christian one should be ready to answer the questions of all, especially those of unbelievers.
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This specfic thread deals with cheap grace theology, i.e. it isn't for non-believers/God haters/atheists, it's for those who think that they don't need to repent yet still join God in Heaven.
 
Overitall said:
I do believe in repentance, but in regards to accepting Jesus Christ as Lord of your life. A person is acknowledging that they need Jesus Christ to be redeemed from the death of sin. Sin is death, both spiritually and physically. This, as I previously outlined, involves our standing in God's family. We are His children through Jesus Christ. Our state (our relationship) is determined by our continued good behavior, confessing our sins when they occur in order to restore our relationship with God. Picture this in the earthly comparison.

You need to understand this in context, both the immediate and remote. You excluded the latter part of verse 11, as well as the important point of 12.
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So you believe in repentance, and that our relationship with Jesus Christ/God is based on continuous good behavior. So far you're speaking out AGAINST cheap grace theology.

Regarding "confessing our sins": Are you asking Jesus to give you strength to overcome any sinful temptations that my arise in your life? You do know that the goal of His followers is to be more like Him don't you?

Top 15 Bible Verses-Being More Like Jesus - Everyday Servant

Top 15 Bible Verses-Being More Like Jesus Christian Devotional...How can we be more like Jesus? What does the Bible say? Top 15 Verses-Being More Like Jesus
everydayservant.com

My next question is this: Have you abandoned any immoral lifestyles that you may have engaged in: sexual immorality (out of wedlock sex: fornication/adultery, homosexuality, incest, bestiality, pornography), alcoholism (drunkeness) recreational drug use, etc.?
 
aCultureWarrior said:
This specfic thread deals with cheap grace theology, i.e. it isn't for non-believers/God haters/atheists, it's for those who think that they don't need to repent yet still join God in Heaven.
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I understand your intent, but you need to understand you have no control over who responds. It's possible you, or others, might learn something from unbelievers; some of who may be former Christians having an in-depth understanding of the subject. Don't underestimate God's willingness to work through them to teach you a valuable lesson.
 
aCultureWarrior said:
So you believe in repentance, and that our relationship with Jesus Christ/God is based on continuous good behavior. So far you're speaking out AGAINST cheap grace theology.

Regarding "confessing our sins": Are you asking Jesus to give you strength to overcome any sinful temptations that my arise in your life? You do know that the goal of His followers is to be more like Him don't you?

Top 15 Bible Verses-Being More Like Jesus - Everyday Servant

Top 15 Bible Verses-Being More Like Jesus Christian Devotional...How can we be more like Jesus? What does the Bible say? Top 15 Verses-Being More Like Jesus
everydayservant.com

My next question is this: Have you abandoned any immoral lifestyles that you may have engaged in: sexual immorality (out of wedlock sex: fornication/adultery, homosexuality, incest, bestiality, pornography), alcoholism (drunkeness) recreational drug use, etc.?
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You're moving into the category of personal behaviour. I'm not on trial here. Try to stick to questions of theology. Ask questions regarding beliefs.
 
aCultureWarrior said:
I lump God-haters with atheists. Why do you hate God so much, so much that you have no desire to defend His Word?
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You may have me confused with a member of a cult that you imagine exists.

Why are so ready to dismiss and condemn?

Does your post here connect in any way to anything I have posted?
 
code1211 said:
You may have me confused with a member of a cult that you imagine exists.

Why are so ready to dismiss and condemn?

Does your post here connect in any way to anything I have posted?
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I'm well aware that DP consists of probably 99% atheists and that it's futile to have a discussion on theology in a forum such as this. This thread is for the 1% who identify as Christian.
 
Overitall said:
You're moving into the category of personal behaviour. I'm not on trial here. Try to stick to questions of theology. Ask questions regarding beliefs.
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Personal behavior is on trial when it comes to being judged by God.

Do you identify as a Christian or are you just another atheist troll wasting my time?
 
aCultureWarrior said:
Personal behavior is on trial when it comes to being judged by God.
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True, but I'll wait for Him to judge me. Although I believe He'll judge me to be righteous in Jesus Christ.
aCultureWarrior said:
Do you identify as a Christian or are you just another atheist troll wasting my time?
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I identify myself as a son of God through my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. For purposes of conversations with others I'll cop to the label of Christian. Afterall, Christ is in me.
 
aCultureWarrior said:
I said the same thing when I heard that people think that they can go to Heaven without first repenting.
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Who are these people? I've never heard such a crazy idea...
 
aCultureWarrior said:
Would you care to address the subject of cheap grace theology?
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No. But I have read The Cost of Discipleship, participated in an academic discussion group on Bonhoeffer's life and works, and understand and think very frequently in examination of conscience of the difference between cheap and costly grace.
 
nota bene said:
No. But I have read The Cost of Discipleship,
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You caught my interest. Just downloaded it.
nota bene said:
participated in an academic discussion group on Bonhoeffer's life and works, and understand and think very frequently in examination of conscience of the difference between cheap and costly grace.
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Overitall said:
True, but I'll wait for Him to judge me. Although I believe He'll judge me to be righteous in Jesus Christ.
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If you aren't following His Word as seen in Holy Scripture, do you think you can con God into allowing you into Heaven?
Overitall said:
I identify myself as a son of God through my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. For purposes of conversations with others I'll cop to the label of Christian. Afterall, Christ is in me.
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You can call yourself what you want, but that doesn't make it so if you don't walk the walk...
 
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