• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Cheap Grace Theology

aCultureWarrior

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 21, 2021
Messages
4,566
Reaction score
108
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
It seems to be running amuck amongst modern day Christians:

The term “cheap grace” can be traced back to a book written by German theologian, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, called The Cost of Discipleship, published in 1937. In that book, Bonhoeffer defined “cheap grace” as “the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ.” Notice what is emphasized in Bonhoeffer’s definition of cheap grace and what is de-emphasized. The emphasis is on the benefits of Christianity without the costs involved; hence, the adjective cheap to describe it.

I'd like to focus on the part about "forgiveness without requiring repentance," How is it possible to call yourself a follower of Christ if you yourself don't repent and before forgiving others, require that they do so as well?
 
I'm an atheist but I'm pretty sure most Christians believe something along the lines of God's love being unconditional.
 
I'm an atheist
I feel sorry for you, you're missing out on so much.
but I'm pretty sure most Christians believe something along the lines of God's love being unconditional.

That statement could mean two different things: That God loves His creation so much that He wants each and every one of mankind to repent, no matter what they've done, so that they can spend eternity with Him.

or

Everyone goes to Heaven, even you.

Which do you believe is correct, or do you have other thoughts?
 
Which do you believe is correct, or do you have other thoughts?
Well, I think dying is akin to unplugging a computer. But I personally know many Christians that believe everyone goes to heaven.

I feel sorry for you, you're missing out on so much.
I went to church and Sunday school occasionally as a kid. I'm fine with what I'm missing.
 
Well, I think dying is akin to unplugging a computer. But I personally know many Christians that believe everyone goes to heaven.

I'm quite certain that those so-called "Christians" beileve in other things that goes against God's Word as well.
I went to church and Sunday school occasionally as a kid. I'm fine with what I'm missing.

I recently quit going to church because I'm tired of modern day "thou shalt not judge!" limp wristed Chriistianity.

I'm getting plenty of spirituality watching certain pastors on tv and reading Holy Scripture.
 
I'm an atheist but I'm pretty sure most Christians believe something along the lines of God's love being unconditional.
Um no...John 3:16, John 17:3...
 
God's love is not unconditional?

Based on these verses?

You lost me.
There are conditions...

"that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."

"This means everlasting life, their coming to know you,"
 
There are conditions...

"that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."

"This means everlasting life, their coming to know you,"
The verses you provided do not support that.
 

God's Love Is Better Than Unconditional​

Did you know that the word "unconditional" is not found in the Bible, and it has contributed to multiple misunderstandings about God's love?

The phrase "unconditional love" didn't become popular in Christian teaching until the 1960's, and most people believe it originated in the teachings of atheistic psychologist Erich Fromm.

None of the Greek or Hebrew words used to describe God's love are equivalent to "unconditional," and no legitimate translation uses the word.

Scripture defines God's love as eternal, patient, long-suffering, sacrificial, pure, holy, just, fair, perfect, etc., but none of these words are the equivalent to unconditional.

Why is the term unconditional misleading?



1. Because it misleads unbelievers about salvation.

God gives His love while we're still sinners (Romans 5:8). His love is undeserved and we can't earn it (Ephesians 2:8).

But salvation is only given to those who believe in Christ. That is a non-negotiable condition.

John 3:36: Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.

Truly unconditional love would treat God-hater and God-lover, victim and criminal, godly and wicked, atheist and Christian exactly the same.

That's why the belief in unconditional love has increased the popularity of the Universal Salvation heresy, the belief that all people will be saved even those who hate Jesus.

Christians are saved from the eternal death we deserve because Christ fulfilled justice and paid for our sins. If God's love had no conditions, Christ would not have needed to die.

2. Because it misleads believers about sanctification.

Those who genuinely follow Jesus will always be loved by God, but using the word "unconditional" to describe God's love gives the impression that God rewards all believers equally, is never displeased with believers, and sees all believers the same.

This has produced a great many lazy Christians who don't take their faith seriously.

3. Because it encourages the common misunderstanding that God views all sins the same.

Unconditional love by definition has no conditions. It's unquestioning, unqualified, and unrestricted. Unconditional love would view all sins equally without judgment of any. Justice has conditions or it ceases to be justice.

Sins are "equal" in these ways: any sin sends us to hell apart from Jesus, and any sin can be forgiven (except the unpardonable sin). But Scripture makes it very clear that all sins are not equal in God's eyes. If you believe God views childish irresponsibility and rape equally, you need to read the Scriptures in All Sins Are Not the Same.

In conclusion:
✔ The greatest act of God's love is based on the condition that Christ die for our sins. If that condition were not fulfilled, all men would go to hell.
✔ The greatest offer of God's love, His offer of salvation is based on the condition that we repent and turn to Him. If that condition is not fulfilled, we will spend eternity in hell.
✔ God's perfect love includes justice, which is based on conditions for right and wrong. Commands are conditions: do the right thing and you will please God; do the wrong thing and your will displease Him. Consequences and punishments are the result of violating a condition.
✔ God's perfect love results in rewards which are based strictly on conditions.
✔ It's illogical to say that God's love is unconditional, but admit that every gesture of His love is conditional.

God's love for believers is unfailing, eternal, perfect, and undeserved. But saying it's unconditional brings confusion. It causes many people to believe God views all sins and all levels of devotion equally. It gives the impression that God has no expectations, no rewards, and no punishments for believers.

Why are so many Christians insistent on using a word that is not found in Scripture and causes these serious misunderstandings, a word that does not accurately describe God's love?

https://biblelovenotes.blogspot.com/2009/09/better-than-unconditional-love.html?m=1
 
It seems to be running amuck amongst modern day Christians:

The term “cheap grace” can be traced back to a book written by German theologian, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, called The Cost of Discipleship, published in 1937. In that book, Bonhoeffer defined “cheap grace” as “the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ.” Notice what is emphasized in Bonhoeffer’s definition of cheap grace and what is de-emphasized. The emphasis is on the benefits of Christianity without the costs involved; hence, the adjective cheap to describe it.

I'd like to focus on the part about "forgiveness without requiring repentance," How is it possible to call yourself a follower of Christ if you yourself don't repent and before forgiving others, require that they do so as well?
There seems to be three parts to your question: repentance; forgiving others; and requiring them to forgive as well. On the last part, I don't see how others forgiving has any relevance to your standing before God. You can't control the actions/behaviors of others. The other two aspects of being a Christian involve two different things, yet both related to sin.

Repentance is more directly related to confessing Jesus as Lord unto salvation. I consider that to be called your "standing" before God. Salvation is son-ship, which is obtainable by two things -- believing God raised Jesus from the dead and confessing Jesus as your Lord (Romans 10:9-10). Peter spoke about repentance on the day of Pentecost as recorded in Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent . . . " He didn't say "repent for the forgiveness of sins but rather the repentance led to ". . . and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins . . ." Remission of sins may seem like the same as being forgiven, but it's more like having all sins up to this point (which if you're very old would most likely be alot) washed away.

Your "state" before God relates to sins which you commit after salvation. For the most part you can remember these and involves confession of your actual sins to restore a broken relationship with God. Think of the standing and state as being a child in a family (the standing) and the relationship in that family (your state). Your standing will always remain the same -- you're a child of God because of your repentance (Romans 10:9-10), but your relationship in that family can fluctuate depending upon your behavior.

Imho, my standing before God will always remain. I'm His child, with the surname of "Christian". My state within His family is dependent upon my behavior. I'll always be a "Christian", but I can bring shame to the family name by my behavior.

If I understand your question correctly, my answer is the best I can offer in a capsule form.
 
It seems to be running amuck amongst modern day Christians:

The term “cheap grace” can be traced back to a book written by German theologian, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, called The Cost of Discipleship, published in 1937. In that book, Bonhoeffer defined “cheap grace” as “the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ.” Notice what is emphasized in Bonhoeffer’s definition of cheap grace and what is de-emphasized. The emphasis is on the benefits of Christianity without the costs involved; hence, the adjective cheap to describe it.

I'd like to focus on the part about "forgiveness without requiring repentance," How is it possible to call yourself a follower of Christ if you yourself don't repent and before forgiving others, require that they do so as well?

Seems odd if one buys into the traditional understanding of Christianity.

However, my personal view on this is that God can pretty much do whatever He determines he wants to have done.

When any human being decides that he can mandate the decisions of God, that human being is performing an exercise in foolishness.

I could be wrong.
 
Seems odd if one buys into the traditional understanding of Christianity.

People changed the rules to fit their own agenda.


However, my personal view on this is that God can pretty much do whatever He determines he wants to have done.

When any human being decides that he can mandate the decisions of God, that human being is performing an exercise in foolishness.

I could be wrong.

The Bible is very clear about the need to repent, i.e. the change of one's mind/heart and actions in order to become a follower of Jesus Christ.
 
There seems to be three parts to your question: repentance; forgiving others; and requiring them to forgive as well. On the last part, I don't see how others forgiving has any relevance to your standing before God. You can't control the actions/behaviors of others. The other two aspects of being a Christian involve two different things, yet both related to sin.
Repentance: the changing of one's mind/heart followed by a changing of actions/behaviors. God won't allow you into Heaven without first doing so. If you don't hold others up to that same standard, how are you helping them? If you stay silent while others continue in their immoral ways, you're not only hurting society, you're hurting the person who thinks that he isn't required to follow a higher standard, i.e. God's.
Repentance is more directly related to confessing Jesus as Lord unto salvation. I consider that to be called your "standing" before God. Salvation is son-ship, which is obtainable by two things -- believing God raised Jesus from the dead and confessing Jesus as your Lord (Romans 10:9-10).
i.e. say all of the right words yet go on living an ungodly life? Why would God allow someone who is an anarchist in life (not following His nor society's laws that are based on His Word) into Heaven?


Imho, my standing before God will always remain. I'm His child, with the surname of "Christian". My state within His family is dependent upon my behavior. I'll always be a "Christian", but I can bring shame to the family name by my behavior.
Your standing before God is based on repentance. The end result is to be more like Christ. Will committing an occasional sin jeopardize your eternal salvation? It depends on whether you want to overcome those sins or if you're playing God for a fool, i.e. making his grace "cheap".
 
Repentance: the changing of one's mind/heart followed by a changing of actions/behaviors. God won't allow you into Heaven without first doing so.
What if you repented on your deathbed without the opportunity to change behavior. Then what? If the answer is God looks on the heart of the repentant, He could do the same with the sinner.
If you don't hold others up to that same standard, how are you helping them?
You should consider the parable of the sower. Why should I cast seed upon the rocks? It won't grow.
If you stay silent while others continue in their immoral ways, you're not only hurting society, you're hurting the person who thinks that he isn't required to follow a higher standard, i.e. God's.
My reason for living a righteous life is to please God. Titus 3:10-11 "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself." My obligation only goes so far.
i.e. say all of the right words yet go on living an ungodly life? Why would God allow someone who is an anarchist in life (not following His nor society's laws that are based on His Word) into Heaven?
You can't work your way into Heaven. Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”
Your standing before God is based on repentance. The end result is to be more like Christ. Will committing an occasional sin jeopardize your eternal salvation? It depends on whether you want to overcome those sins or if you're playing God for a fool, i.e. making his grace "cheap".
The cost of God's grace has already been paid through the sacrifice of His only begotten son -- Jesus Christ.
 
People changed the rules to fit their own agenda.




The Bible is very clear about the need to repent, i.e. the change of one's mind/heart and actions in order to become a follower of Jesus Christ.

As I understand it, "The God of Abraham" is the same God worshipped by the Jews, the Christians and the Muslims. Understandings seem to be various and diverse.

It is my personal opinion that any divine inspiration or realization coming from any divine source is received from the SAME source.

However, the interpretations of men insert differences in the understandings.

I could be wrong.

I understand that religious leaders have prayed for success of armies as they prepare for battle. In many cases, the opposing forces were both praying to the same God.

Men plan. God laughs.
 
As I understand it, "The God of Abraham" is the same God worshipped by the Jews, the Christians and the Muslims. Understandings seem to be various and diverse.

It is my personal opinion that any divine inspiration or realization coming from any divine source is received from the SAME source.

However, the interpretations of men insert differences in the understandings.

I could be wrong.

I understand that religious leaders have prayed for success of armies as they prepare for battle. In many cases, the opposing forces were both praying to the same God.

Men plan. God laughs.
Excellent point! I think for God it's all a matter of protecting individuals, rather than a side. The days of God getting involved in the battles of men, imho, are over. He's no longer trying to protect a group (like Israel) in order to ensure the fulfillment of a prophesy.
 
Excellent point! I think for God it's all a matter of protecting individuals, rather than a side. The days of God getting involved in the battles of men, imho, are over. He's no longer trying to protect a group (like Israel) in order to ensure the fulfillment of a prophesy.

My personal opinion on God's involvement in any warfare is that it is highly doubtable.

I could be wrong.

While it might be a good move to put your faith in God in warfare, keeping your powder dry is very likely a more critically needed tactic. ;)
 
What if you repented on your deathbed without the opportunity to change behavior. Then what? If the answer is God looks on the heart of the repentant, He could do the same with the sinner.

You mean like the thief that was crucified next to Jesus? Had he had the opportunity to show that he loved God, then it would have been shown through his actions had he been spared the penalty of death.
The cost of God's grace has already been paid through the sacrifice of His only begotten son -- Jesus Christ.

Hence cheap grace theology Go on sinning, no big deal, Jesus paid the price.
 
As I understand it, "The God of Abraham" is the same God worshipped by the Jews, the Christians and the Muslims. Understandings seem to be various and diverse.

It is my personal opinion that any divine inspiration or realization coming from any divine source is received from the SAME source.

However, the interpretations of men insert differences in the understandings.

I could be wrong.

Yes, you are wrong.
I understand that religious leaders have prayed for success of armies as they prepare for battle. In many cases, the opposing forces were both praying to the same God.

Men plan. God laughs.

Which has nothing to do with the subject of Cheap Grace Theology. Thanks for your thoughts though.
 
You mean like the thief that was crucified next to Jesus? Had he had the opportunity to show that he loved God, then it would have been shown through his actions had he been spared the penalty of death.


Hence cheap grace theology Go on sinning, no big deal, Jesus paid the price.
Except it doesn't work that way because God knows the heart...
 
Except it doesn't work that way because God knows the heart...

Boy does He ever.

Galatians 6:1-10

1Brothers, if someone is caught in a trespass, you who are spiritual should restore him with a spirit of gentleness. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. 2Carry one another’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

3If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.

4Each one should test his own work. Then he will have reason to boast in himself alone, and not in someone else. 5For each one should carry his own load. 6Nevertheless, the one who receives instruction in the word must share in all good things with his instructor.

7Do not be deceived: God is not to be mocked. Whatever a man sows, he will reap in return. 8The one who sows to please his flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

9Let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to the family of faith.
 
Boy does He ever.

Galatians 6:1-10

1Brothers, if someone is caught in a trespass, you who are spiritual should restore him with a spirit of gentleness. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. 2Carry one another’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

3If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.

4Each one should test his own work. Then he will have reason to boast in himself alone, and not in someone else. 5For each one should carry his own load. 6Nevertheless, the one who receives instruction in the word must share in all good things with his instructor.

7Do not be deceived: God is not to be mocked. Whatever a man sows, he will reap in return. 8The one who sows to please his flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

9Let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to the family of faith.
Glad you agree...
 
You mean like the thief that was crucified next to Jesus? Had he had the opportunity to show that he loved God, then it would have been shown through his actions had he been spared the penalty of death.
You only assume that the thief would have changed his behavior. At that moment in time his act of asking for mercy was rewarded. Life lessons teach that even though our children disobey us at times doesn't mean they don't love their parents. The flesh is weak. God full well knows this. Thus the necessity of Jesus Christ.
Hence cheap grace theology Go on sinning, no big deal, Jesus paid the price.
You misunderstand. No where did I state that God's grace is a license to sin. Grace by its very definition is favor from God that is unearned. That favor is highlighted and emphasized through our acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ fulfilling the law. When Jesus was crucified, we were crucified with him. When he was raised from the dead we were raised with him. Our salvation is past tense. The work necessary for it was completely, complete by him. That's why we live by grace, not by the works of the law.

Romans 6:4-7
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
 
Yes, you are wrong.


Which has nothing to do with the subject of Cheap Grace Theology. Thanks for your thoughts though.

Well...

We're very dismissive, aren't we.
 
Back
Top Bottom