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Champs Banned

aps

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KCConservative said:
See you next summer. :2wave:
Is that how long he's been banned for?
 

aps

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*sigh* Oh well. At least he wasn't permanently banned. I know he can be abrasive; however, anyone who says that part of his interests are his "kids" can't be all bad.
 
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aps said:
*sigh* Oh well. At least he wasn't permanently banned. I know he can be abrasive; however, anyone who says that part of his interests are his "kids" can't be all bad.
Well I hope the abrasiveness and language and insults he uses here is different from what he shows his kids.
 

aps

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KCConservative said:
Well I hope the abrasiveness and language and insults he uses here is different from what he shows his kids.
Me too! Does that apply to your abrasiveness as well, my conservative friend? ;) xo
 
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aps said:
Me too! Does that apply to your abrasiveness as well, my conservative friend? ;) xo
The profanity, personal attacks and name calling champs used in his posts is what got him a ticket out of here. I choose not to behave in that way, and that's why I am here. You have always objected to wit and sarcasm, aps, but those are not against the forum rules.
 

aps

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KCConservative said:
The profanity, personal attacks and name calling champs used in his posts is what got him a ticket out of here. I choose not to behave in that way, and that's why I am here. You have always objected to wit and sarcasm, aps, but those are not against the forum rules.
I don't object to either at all. But when every single post is full of sarcasm, it gets old.
 

tecoyah

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and so....you simply pay no attention, which is why I didnt even notice when Champs went away....likely wouldnt note a loss of KC either.
 
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aps said:
I don't object to either at all. But when every single post is full of sarcasm, it gets old.
Then I'll be sure to pour it on. ;)
 

aps

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KCConservative said:
Then I'll be sure to pour it on. ;)
LOL Good one! :2razz:
 

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from here

Moderator's Warning:
First, let me clarify the difference between banning and suspension. Banning is a permanent affair. The user is banned for all time until mountains crumble into the oceans. Suspension is just like banning, except it ends after a specified duration.
Champs has been suspended not banned.

Next on to other issues.
Hoot said:
They both throw out insults. Teach compared me to a 'little girl,' and basically said my comments were 'bullshit.' I guess that's ok in this forum?
I've not looked at the actual instances you describe, but allow me to clarify a little based on very vague and general precepts.
Calling your comments bullshit, (or horseshit, or dogshit, or plain old **** or pretty much any sort of scatological reference) is not optimal, but is generally allowed as it is about the comments ratherthan the person. We all have to accept that from time to time we all say and/or do some stupid things in our lives. Doesn't mean we're stupid, just that we made a mistake.
Comparing someone to something in an insulting /derogatory manner is definitely frowned upon.
Also, please allow me to restate that not all moderator action is public. Per Forum Rules:
Not all disciplinary actions will be public. Furthermore, moderators are not obligated to notify general membership of whether a particular member has received a warning. Nor are moderators obligated to discuss any disciplinary actions taken against a member with any other member.
The guidelines and rules we use are intentionally vague. A lot does come down to moderators' best judgment. Due to the nature of the beast, this is the best way we know to strike the right balance between being just and merciful. I've no doubt that as humans we we screw things up sometimes. We encourage folks to let us know about these things via PM and email.
Per Forum Rules:
6a. If there are any concerns over a moderators actions, please address a private message (PM) to vauge or the moderator in question. Your feedback and concerns are very valuable to the success of this board. Each and every PM will be read and investigated.
Hoot said:
Remember Moderators......Percy Bysshe Shelley (1792–1822) QUOTATION: "Power, like a desolating pestilence, Pollutes whate'er it touches;"
LOL.
Yeah. Yeehaw, such power!! Who is like unto me?
DeeJayH said:
MixedMedia banned 26X
Actually, I pulled the trigger. MM just did the dirty work of writing the letters and making the posts etc.

Hoot said:
Interesting. I though the mods had to vote as a group to determine banning? From your statement, it sounds as though only one mod is needed to ban someone? This can't be accurate, can it?
In part, this is related to the distinction between banning and suspension, and in part, it's accurate. In theory, any one of us can hit the ban button or the suspend button. In practice, most folks don't get banned or suspended w/o multiple consultations. Of all the moderators, I'm the only one I'm sure has summarily banned anyone. They've been spammers you've prob'ly never heard of because I caught them at the start of their stay here. Even then, the action was noted in the appropriate mod forum. But as per real members, NONE that I know of has ever been suspended or banned w/o consultations.

Bearing in mind that it's not uncommon to have some relatively heated discussion in the mod forum re various events, and ideas.
Champs was the subject of multiple consultations throughout his stay here. This most recent action was also the result of deliberations. There was no moderator dissent voiced against the decision to institute a temporary suspension of Champs posting privileges.
 

cnredd

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Simon W. Moon said:
Bearing in mind that it's not uncommon to have some relatively heated discussion in the mod forum re various events, and ideas. Champs was the subject of multiple consultations throughout his stay here. This most recent action was also the result of deliberations. There was no moderator dissent voiced against the decision to institute a temporary suspension of Champs posting privileges.
This is a point that happens alot which some members seem to forget or just not realize...

It's very rarely, if at all, the result of one instance which brings about such action, so for anyone to say "I didn't see anything that bad with what he said." or "Other people have said that too and didn't get banned." doesn't realize that one post did not make the decision...It was only the last epidode in an ongoing saga...

Let's use discipline in a school as an example...Let's say there is no smoking on school grounds...

Person "A" gets caught smoking and is warned...

Two weeks later, Person "A" gets caught smoking and is warned a second time...

Two weeks late, Person "A" and Person "B" get caught smoking...Person "A" is immediately suspended and Person "B" gets warned....

For the observer, JUST seeing the third instance of someone getting caught would make them think that the disciplinary action against Person "A" was too harsh, seeing as how Person "B" did not receive the same suspension...

But knowing the whole story(The previous two instances), we see that the difference in the actions taken was well justified...

In this case with the three month suspension, this was not swift justice...There is a paper trail...possibly the longest one in the history of this forum...that details the repeated pleas, actions, requests, and dialogue from the Mod Team for Champs to change his manner of debate away from the continued personal attacks and disruptive behavior...

Personal messages have been sent...Public warnings have been given out... emails were exchanged...All of this led to a 7 day suspension...shown here...

As we see, it's not ONE POST or ONE INSTANCE that resulted in this decision...It's a full collection...

This was correctly and publicly pointed out in the post mixedmedia threw out to the forum...

Moderator's Warning:
26 X World Champs,

This is just the latest in a string of recent personal attacks against other members of this forum. After REPEATED warnings and attempts to allow you time to modify your debating style, you persist in taking the low road, disrupting debate and making inflammatory personal remarks about the intelligence and character of other members of DP.
:smash:

You have earned yourself a three month suspension of your account. If and when you decide to return, the entire mod team hopes you can adapt your mode of debate to coincide with forum policy.


Notice it?..Not ONCE was it pointed out that the action taken was due to this one post...That post was just the one that dotted the "i"s and crossed the "t"s...Final straw...

Also, keep in mind that after the warnings from multiple Moderators, a week suspension from a Libertarian, and a public notice from a Liberal with the software manipulation being done by a Conservative, any accusations of bias is thrown out the window...Take it for what it is, and don't try to read between the lines looking for some political or personal angle...None will be found...

So for future reference, please understand that we do not take issues like this lightly or with political references in mind...
 

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KCConservative said:
Well I hope the abrasiveness and language and insults he uses here is different from what he shows his kids.
How do you know he has been banned?
 

aps

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Navy Pride said:
How do you know he has been banned?
If you look at one of Champs' posts, it has "Banned" underneath his name. I am guessing that KC may have complained about him to the moderators, which is why he noticed it sooner than others.
 

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aps said:
If you look at one of Champs' posts, it has "Banned" underneath his name. I am guessing that KC may have complained about him to the moderators, which is why he noticed it sooner than others.

Thanks aps, I really think Champs is a pretty intelligent guy but he definitely has and anger management problem that gets him into trouble.............
 

aps

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Navy Pride said:
Thanks aps, I really think Champs is a pretty intelligent guy but he definitely has and anger management problem that gets him into trouble.............
Did you see Champs trying to give me a guilt trip because I want the mortgage interest deduction? Me! A liberal! :shock:

I think a passionate debater can be a positive thing, but it also can be a negative thing.

Peace bro :cool:
 

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aps said:
Did you see Champs trying to give me a guilt trip because I want the mortgage interest deduction? Me! A liberal! :shock:

I think a passionate debater can be a positive thing, but it also can be a negative thing.

Peace bro :cool:
Yes I saw that........It seems he had no good word for anyone that disagreed with him be it Conservative or Liberal.......
 
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aps said:
If you look at one of Champs' posts, it has "Banned" underneath his name. I am guessing that KC may have complained about him to the moderators, which is why he noticed it sooner than others.
Wrong. I noticed it because I was in the same thread when he was banned. Nice try, aps.
 
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aps

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KCConservative said:
Wrong. I noticed it because I was in the same thread when he was banned. Nice try, aps.
Notice that I used the word "guess" when describing how you noticed it earlier than most people. I didn't know, so I guessed. I wasn't trying to speak negatively about you (this time ;)).
 

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As far as 26X's Champs....I thought he was a good debator, and usually, but not always, found myself in agreement with his positions. I admit he could be rude, dramatic and abrasive, but I don't believe this latest banning fell under the 'personal attack' category, but more so in the vein of his increduality at the stupidity of some of the 'ideas' used for rebuttal against his positions.

I'm also dismayed that one lone moderator can take it upon themself to ban anyone from these forums?! I believe this should always be put to a vote, and if possible, a private vote, in which the other mods are not aware of how eachother has voted.

I also believe at least a 2/3's vote should be needed for banning, and certainly not a simple majority. I also believe that the one who proposes the banning should not be allowed a vote.

I also believe that anyone who objects to another poster...say more then 3X's in a 3 month period, should also be banned for being a little wuss, and a spoiled rotten little complainer.

Although 26X's has stepped over the line on numerous occassions, I believe he was an intelligent poster, who always supported his views with common sense and good, to the point, links. I can point out numerous instances where mods have stepped over the line and thrown out personal insults, but I guess that's ok? I can't help feeling that there's a double standard at work in these forums that was originally not present.

Unfortunately, a 3 month banning will probably mean that he will not return, and DP will be the less for this.

This whole place is turning into a soap opera and as Mods, all of you must take personal responsibility.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Hoot
 

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I appreciate your the time you took to speak your mind. Thank you.

If you'll notice, even though we all technically do have the power to suspend/ban someone on our own, it hasn't happened like that, it doesn't happen like that, and is unlikely to ever happen that way.

Further, there was no dissent about the suspension of Champs.

I hope you can appreciate that as a team we respectfully disagree with your assessment. Also, we are truly glad that you not only feel free to express your concerns, but that you did so. Thank you for letting us know how you thought and felt about things.

Sincerely,

Simon W. Moon
 

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Thanks, Simon, I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your reply.

Don't let it go to your head, but whenever I see posts by you or someone like Pacridge, I make a point of reading your words, because I know I will usually learn something.

On the other hand, I also make a point of reading posts by members like Stinger and Aquapub because I am sometimes amazed at the short-sightedness. LOL ( As I said, don't let it go to your head)

Oops! I am in the basement, right? Don't want to get suspended! LOL!

I'm afraid there exists a political bias in some mods who tend to be persuaded by other mods to suspend members because of the political leanings of another. That's why I believe a private vote of suspension would prevent certain mods from using undue influence on others.

As far as no dissent? I don't believe this can be accurately guaged when the vote is not private. Some mods may be intimidated from truely speaking their minds about the level of justification for suspension.

Sure you don't have any little Hitlers in your midst? LOL

Again, thanks for your time.
 

Simon W. Moon

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Actually, it gets sort of heated in the Mod forum. It's kind of like the floor of Congress - you can't get in trouble for what you say there.

Several of the mods have gone round and round w/ other mods.

Someone may be intimidated, but they'd be afraid of showing weakness by just going along.
 
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