Champs Banned

[mixedmedia]

As far as 26X's Champs....I thought he was a good debator, and usually, but not always, found myself in agreement with his positions. I admit he could be rude, dramatic and abrasive, but I don't believe this latest banning fell under the 'personal attack' category, but more so in the vein of his increduality at the stupidity of some of the 'ideas' used for rebuttal against his positions.

I'm also dismayed that one lone moderator can take it upon themself to ban anyone from these forums?! I believe this should always be put to a vote, and if possible, a private vote, in which the other mods are not aware of how eachother has voted.

I also believe at least a 2/3's vote should be needed for banning, and certainly not a simple majority. I also believe that the one who proposes the banning should not be allowed a vote.

I also believe that anyone who objects to another poster...say more then 3X's in a 3 month period, should also be banned for being a little wuss, and a spoiled rotten little complainer.

Although 26X's has stepped over the line on numerous occassions, I believe he was an intelligent poster, who always supported his views with common sense and good, to the point, links. I can point out numerous instances where mods have stepped over the line and thrown out personal insults, but I guess that's ok? I can't help feeling that there's a double standard at work in these forums that was originally not present.

Unfortunately, a 3 month banning will probably mean that he will not return, and DP will be the less for this.

This whole place is turning into a soap opera and as Mods, all of you must take personal responsibility.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Hoot

Champs was given ample opportunity to be a member of this community simply by debating in a non-inflammatory manner. That is all he had to do, but he couldn't manage it. Much like Skilmatic, sissy-boy and others who have found themselves banned these past months (keep in mind that Champs was not banned but suspended). The mod team has been very gracious with Champs as far as I am concerned. Yes he is a long-time member, which naturally correlates into him being a long-time "offender." What are we supposed to do after repeated warnings, messages and finally a letter stating quite clearly the consequences of continuing to participate in a disruptive way? You tell me, Hoot.

For anyone interested, here are the posts that Champs' suspension were based on - all but one posted on the same thread within a 24 hour-period:


http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=234764&postcount=47



http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=234873&postcount=51

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=234878&postcount=52

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=234469&postcount=36

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=234487&postcount=38

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=234531&postcount=40

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=234426&postcount=26

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=234313&postcount=16

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=234357&postcount=18



http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=233994&postcount=35


Whether he is intelligent or not is irrelevant. It is his constant degrading of other people's intelligence and other personal remarks that earned him the 3-month suspension. He is a full-grown man and should be able to modify his own "style" to be in accordance with forum policy. You admit yourself that he stepped over the line on numerous occasions. I notice your record is clean, Hoot. Why is it that those who play by the rules have no trouble here and those who do not find their accounts in jeopardy? I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who know we have rules and then bitch every time action is taken against someone for enforcing them. Fact is, MOST of the forum's members have no problem being civil. You may not agree with a lot of what they say, or even find a lot of what they say offensive - I know I do! - but all ideas are welcome here. Telling someone they are stupid or an asshole for their ideas is not. It's quite simple.

As far as double standards for mods go, there are none. Mods may not be moderated in public, but if you think our interaction is all back-patting and universal agreement on our every move then you are sorely mistaken. Disagreements are regular and our discussions about them are candid and honest. Your portrayal of us as a clique that likes creating drama, playing favorites and generally being self-serving with our "power," quite frankly I find insulting. There is not a single member among us who feels that way about their responsibility. Do you really think vauge would stand for that?

Your suggestions for a "ban method" will be taken into account. It is, in fact, something we are currently discussing. Not because we doubt each other's discretion - not in the least - but precisely for the reason you are exemplifying here: suspicion shown by members towards our actions. Good thing about all that is we have nothing to hide.

 

[cnredd]

As far as 26X's Champs....I thought he was a good debator, and usually, but not always, found myself in agreement with his positions. I admit he could be rude, dramatic and abrasive, but I don't believe this latest banning fell under the 'personal attack' category, but more so in the vein of his increduality at the stupidity of some of the 'ideas' used for rebuttal against his positions.

I'm also dismayed that one lone moderator can take it upon themself to ban anyone from these forums?! I believe this should always be put to a vote, and if possible, a private vote, in which the other mods are not aware of how eachother has voted.

I also believe at least a 2/3's vote should be needed for banning, and certainly not a simple majority. I also believe that the one who proposes the banning should not be allowed a vote.

I also believe that anyone who objects to another poster...say more then 3X's in a 3 month period, should also be banned for being a little wuss, and a spoiled rotten little complainer.

Although 26X's has stepped over the line on numerous occassions, I believe he was an intelligent poster, who always supported his views with common sense and good, to the point, links. I can point out numerous instances where mods have stepped over the line and thrown out personal insults, but I guess that's ok? I can't help feeling that there's a double standard at work in these forums that was originally not present.

Unfortunately, a 3 month banning will probably mean that he will not return, and DP will be the less for this.

This whole place is turning into a soap opera and as Mods, all of you must take personal responsibility.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Hoot

You didn't read a word of this, did you?...

 

[Captain America]

Anyone who knows me knows that I typically do not defend nor interfere with the mods. I learned a long time ago that they are the wrong people to get sideways with. But I have to say that the one and only time I have been addressed for stepping over the line here, I certainly had it coming and I have tried since to stay on this side of the line. I hold no anomosity whatsoever. In fact, I made my sincerest apology to the board for my infraction.

But I have to say, after reading the posts of Champs, he had it coming...HOWEVER......................(There's always a big however)........

I noticed who most of his insulting posts address. I have had the blessing of knowing that particular poster on several forums and I believe it is important for the board to understand his modus operandi. He is, in my humble opinion, what some people call a "hate-baiter". A forum troll. There is never any harmony when he is present.

Now, take this scenerio for example. Say I had a beef with moderators (which I do not) much like that particular poster has with democrats and liberals. And I posted "Moderators are lilly livered, commie, pinko f***, who french kiss their grandmas." Now, I did not mention any particular moderators name, persay, but I labeld the "group" as the scum of the earth. Naturally, anybody who wore a moderator hat would be offended. I would further antagonize that moderator who "took the bait" until one of them fired back at me personally. Then I would run and tattle on that particular moderator and try to get him suspended or banned. Maybe using a moderator for an example was not the best example. It has been my experience that moderators who break the forum rules barely, if ever, get the same penalties as other posters do for the same infractions but that does not necessarily apply here as the mods here seem to be level headed and fair... But it happens.

I have seen that particular poster both suspended and banned on other forums for his same hate baiting and venomous spew. I am surprised that poster is still allowed to post here considering his agenda to cause discord and start sh**. I am further surprised to see this poster was included amongst some of you guy's "most favorite poster" list on another thread.

I cannot defend Champs for his indescretions, but I respect the hell out of him for telling that particular poster where to go and exposing him for what he is. If that particular poster was sent packing, there would be less infractions and less violations. I, myself, have been guilty of taking his bait before. he the kinda guy people love to hate. For some unknown reason, he seems to be able to walk on water around here and until that particular cancer is removed from this site, there will be more people warned and more people, who are less priveleged than him, banned. I have decided to put that particular poster on my "not worthy of a response" list. I suggest that the rest of you do the same or suffer the consequences like Champs did.

R.I.P. Champs. You're still a Champ to me.

 

[Navy Pride]

Even though this is the basement I am going to take the high ground when it comes to CA post.....I do find it amazing that him being a newbie here that he knows so much about the posters here........

The truth of the matter is we both belonged to a very liberal forum and we both were banned from there........As you can see he has and anger Mgmt Problem like Champs.........

I hope he can control it here because I don't want to see him get banned.....

This will be my only post dealing with him on this subject..........

 

[Captain America]

I rest my case......:roll:

 

[jallman]

If you read the links that mixie posted, it is clear that champs was being a little snot. His favorite tactic was to put forth a premise and then berate the opposition by all but calling them stupid...wait...thats exactly what he did. The mods had no choice but to suspend him for his actions.

And as for the mods, they are pretty level headed. They are human, like all of us, and have been known to make a bad decision on a bad day. But guess what? They also hear us out and over-turn bad decisions when necessary.

Mods, you guys are still doing a great job.

 

[Captain America]

Mods, you guys are still doing a great job.

Ditto that. :agree

 

[cnredd]

Mods, you guys are still doing a great job.

Ditto that. :agree

I couldn't ask for a better birthday present...:2wave:

 

[Captain America]

So how many candles on the cake this year? Happy birthday to you. I hope it's a GREAT one!

 

[cnredd]

So how many candles on the cake this year? Happy birthday to you. I hope it's a GREAT one!

If I cut myself open and count the rings, I'll find 36 of 'em...

 

[Captain America]

Ahhhhhhhhhh....in the prime of life. It's downhill pretty soon. Enjoy it while you can. Old age is a <self-edit.>

 

[cnredd]

Ahhhhhhhhhh....in the prime of life. It's downhill pretty soon. Enjoy it while you can. Old age is a <self-edit.>

Downhill started when I was 15...

I've been having "one of those days" for a couple of decades now...

 

[FinnMacCool]

Bah I hope you guys didn't ban him permanently. I always thought he was cool.

 

[Deegan]

I tried to warn the guy, but he obviously wouldn't listen to anyone, so he got the boot. See ya in a few months Champ, I know you'll be back.

 

[Schweddy]

I have seen that particular poster both suspended and banned on other forums for his same hate baiting and venomous spew. I am surprised that poster is still allowed to post here considering his agenda to cause discord and start sh**. I am further surprised to see this poster was included amongst some of you guy's "most favorite poster" list on another thread.

lol, this is the basement so I am gunna wip it out.
Navy Pride... boy do the mods know his name well.

He does not get away from his transgressions and if you see him doing his name calling or rubing the rules in the wrong way - please use the report post. By all means. And this is coming from a mod that actually likes him. I can assure you, I am in a lonely place.

I cannot defend Champs for his indescretions, but I respect the hell out of him for telling that particular poster where to go and exposing him for what he is. If that particular poster was sent packing, there would be less infractions and less violations. I, myself, have been guilty of taking his bait before. he the kinda guy people love to hate. For some unknown reason, he seems to be able to walk on water around here and until that particular cancer is removed from this site, there will be more people warned and more people, who are less priveleged than him, banned. I have decided to put that particular poster on my "not worthy of a response" list. I suggest that the rest of you do the same or suffer the consequences like Champs did.

R.I.P. Champs. You're still a Champ to me.

Champs champs champs...

I have lost sleep over him! Wondering on how I should vote.

Sad really, I like him too - alot. He was one of our first true liberal members here at DP. But his spitting on our rules and aggressively calling names after repeated pleads, personal PM's, emails and warnings (in and out of posts) finally came to a head. Even more sad, I myself feel that I was biased in his favor more than once.

ban - "please take me back vauge"
ban - "please have a heart, let me know how I can fix it."
ban - "How can I fix it when I do not know what I did wrong?"
ban - "Let me know what I did wrong"
Each time with what appeared to be true appologetic emails. I sent him examples after examples after examples after...you get the point... of his blantant misuse of our rules. Had he been truely appologetic, he wouldn't have done it time after time after time...

Can't stand it any longer. I voted to ban him permanently. If anyone knows me here, they will know that I think perm banning is the last resort. I can't stand it. In the end, he didn't get permanent. But, I can sleep well at night.

When/if he returns, we will start from scratch until he ****s up again and we give the warnings. Rinse wash repeat.

 

[FinnMacCool]

Hey I remember ban. He was. . .interesting. I never particularily liked him nor did I exactlky dislike him. I remember he welcomed me on my first thread though.

 

[Captain America]

Well, as I stated earlier, I can respect him for calling the other poster to task, however, I would have done the same thing you guys did.

We cannot stand on the moral highground when we point out facist tendancies while using the same tactics they use. That is like the pot calling the kettle black. And though I totally understand his disdain and disrespect for that one poster in particular, I cannot condone his methods while, at the same time, condemning theirs. That would make as me as hypocritical as some of them.

You guys did the right thing. As liberal as I can be, I don't think I would have been so lenient. Just ask my kids.

I am a "get 'er done" take-the-trash-out kinda guy. I have always wondered what it would be like to wear the hat of a moderator.

So, until I walk a mile in you guy's shoes, you'll get no flack from me.

 

[Hoot]

You didn't read a word of this, did you?...

Yes, cnredd, I read every single word, but I know for a fact that you yourself have called other posters "liars" in these forums, and even went so far to tell someone to go f--- themself.

Is this the standard for mods but not for other posters?

I have the links so please don't embarrass yourself by making me post them.

In your defense, we all lose our tempers from time to time...except for me, maybe? LOL There's nothing anyone can say to me in these forums that would ever upset me...I'm above that. ( I know that sounds egotistical, but it's the truth)

I know running a forum like this is a difficult and time consuming job, with little reward, however, I still believe some bannings are born from a form of political bias, or jealousy?

Can you look yourself in the mirror and say if a poster steps over the line, but you find yourself in agreement with his positions, you don't give that poster a bit more leeway? More leeway then a poster you disagree with?

I'm not defending Champs, but rather bringing notice to the double standard I see creeping into these forums. A double standard that was not present as short as a year ago.

I appreciate everyone's time and effort into making DP an enjoyable place, and if my words are offensive...ban me. I'll live, but if not banned, get used to me speaking my mind, but always in a respectful manner.

I don't want to give you any ammunition, cnredd. LOL

Perhaps the mods should be rotated? You know...voted out of office once in a while? In fact, why not let the peons of this site vote one mod out office every 6 months? The one mod that the lowly members believe is the most abusive and abrasive of their power? ( Pssst...better start campaigning hard there, cnredd J/K)

It is not my wish to create any enemies in this forum, but I believe this suspension/banning procedure is in dire need of revision. Please feel free to use any or all of my ideas, and again, thank you for your time in allowing me to express my thoughts.

Sincerely,

Hoot

 

[Deegan]

Yes, cnredd, I read every single word, but I know for a fact that you yourself have called other posters "liars" in these forums, and even went so far to tell someone to go f--- themself.

Is this the standard for mods but not for other posters?

I have the links so please don't embarrass yourself by making me post them.

In your defense, we all lose our tempers from time to time...except for me, maybe? LOL There's nothing anyone can say to me in these forums that would ever upset me...I'm above that. ( I know that sounds egotistical, but it's the truth)

I know running a forum like this is a difficult and time consuming job, with little reward, however, I still believe some bannings are born from a form of political bias, or jealousy?

Can you look yourself in the mirror and say if a poster steps over the line, but you find yourself in agreement with his positions, you don't give that poster a bit more leeway? More leeway then a poster you disagree with?

I'm not defending Champs, but rather bringing notice to the double standard I see creeping into these forums. A double standard that was not present as short as a year ago.

I appreciate everyone's time and effort into making DP an enjoyable place, and if my words are offensive...ban me. I'll live, but if not banned, get used to me speaking my mind, but always in a respectful manner.

I don't want to give you any ammunition, cnredd. LOL

Perhaps the mods should be rotated? You know...voted out of office once in a while? In fact, why not let the peons of this site vote one mod out office every 6 months? The one mod that the lowly members believe is the most abusive and abrasive of their power? ( Pssst...better start campaigning hard there, cnredd J/K)

It is not my wish to create any enemies in this forum, but I believe this suspension/banning procedure is in dire need of revision. Please feel free to use any or all of my ideas, and again, thank you for your time in allowing me to express my thoughts.

Sincerely,

Hoot

I think you're contradicting yourself here.

First you suggest you don't care, and nothing said here bothers you, yet this banning did, and you have expressed that. Next, you say that a bias is present, yet you suggest we vote on moderators, will that not bring much more bias in to the forum? Finally, it's quite obvious that you often times disagree with cnredd, and you would like to see him not moderate this forum, is that just not the argument you were attempting to make against him?

That said, I don't find what Champs did that awful, but it was the many times he repeatedly broke the rules that were the final straw. You can't just ignore rules, then expect to not suffer a consequence, this is what you are failing to realize. I think he was given more then enough warning as to what would happen, but he couldn't change his style, and it's indeed his style that got him banned. You may want to learn from this, as I can certainly see why you like Champs, you're just like him, only you're not here as much.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Can you look yourself in the mirror and say if a poster steps over the line, but you find yourself in agreement with his positions, you don't give that poster a bit more leeway? More leeway then a poster you disagree with?

Everyone says this sort of thing. We get accused of bias nearly every time we take an action. Of course, we're accused of a wide variety of biases. The particular bias we get accused of changes often. It somehow seems to be directly related to whomever is on the receiving end of the mod action. Funny that.
But protecting our decisions against bias is very much at the forefront of our discussions and minds. While we're all humans, we strive to do our best.

 

[Navy Pride]

Since most of Champs anger was directed at me I for one would like to give him another chance........I might have unintentially baited him a few times..Anyhow if you mods can see your way to shorten his sentence I would appreciate it...........

 

[Deegan]

Since most of Champs anger was directed at me I for one would like to give him another chance........I might have unintentially baited him a few times..Anyhow if you mods can see your way to shorten his sentence I would appreciate it...........

WOW!!!:shock:


That is very considerate of you Navy, considering the things Champs has said about you, again, you're a bigger man then I.

 

[cnredd]

Yes, cnredd, I read every single word, but I know for a fact that you yourself have called other posters "liars" in these forums, and even went so far to tell someone to go f--- themself.

Liars?...Of course...

As I recently explained earlier today...

If I called someone a "whore", and that person is someone who exchanges sexual favors for money, drugs, or other barter, then that is not calling someone a name...It is fact...

Just the same, calling someone a "liar" is not namecalling if, in fact, that is indeed what one does...This is not an accusation...Accusations must be backed by evidence before it becomes fact...A prosecutor can call the defendant a murder until he's blue in the face, but only when he presents his case will the claim of "murderer" be valid...

Same here...I have validated my claim that you are a liar through clear evidence...hence, no namecalling...just fact...

As far as telling someone to go fu/ck themselves...welcome to the Basement...:shrug:

Is this the standard for mods but not for other posters?

Nope...You don't understand the Basement or your perceptions are wrong...

I have the links so please don't embarrass yourself by making me post them.

I could find them, too...and I'll stand by them...

In your defense, we all lose our tempers from time to time...except for me, maybe? LOL There's nothing anyone can say to me in these forums that would ever upset me...I'm above that. ( I know that sounds egotistical, but it's the truth)

Don't care...

I know running a forum like this is a difficult and time consuming job, with little reward, however, I still believe some bannings are born from a form of political bias, or jealousy?

Then you believe wrong...It's been explained over and over and over again...but you don't listen...

Can you look yourself in the mirror and say if a poster steps over the line, but you find yourself in agreement with his positions, you don't give that poster a bit more leeway? More leeway then a poster you disagree with?

Absolutely not...Rules are rules...disruptive behavior to the point of Moderation is simply disruptive behavior to the point of Moderation...

Moderators are not robots, but if you asked every one of them, the majority, if not all, will say I'm the most robotic...

I'm not defending Champs, but rather bringing notice to the double standard I see creeping into these forums. A double standard that was not present as short as a year ago.

A double standard that only exists in your mind...

I appreciate everyone's time and effort into making DP an enjoyable place, and if my words are offensive...ban me. I'll live, but if not banned, get used to me speaking my mind, but always in a respectful manner.

Your words are only offensive as to the frustration the Mod Team feels when they have to constantly repeat themselves and yet the words don't absorb...

I don't want to give you any ammunition, cnredd. LOL

I don't hold grudges and I don't carry ammunition...

Perhaps the mods should be rotated? You know...voted out of office once in a while? In fact, why not let the peons of this site vote one mod out office every 6 months? The one mod that the lowly members believe is the most abusive and abrasive of their power? ( Pssst...better start campaigning hard there, cnredd J/K)

Yeah...And the kid who becomes "Principal for the Day" immediates bans classes and makes the teachers eat boogers or get fired...Good call...

It is not my wish to create any enemies in this forum, but I believe this suspension/banning procedure is in dire need of revision. Please feel free to use any or all of my ideas, and again, thank you for your time in allowing me to express my thoughts.

You can believe anything you want...If I ask other members, they may/will believe differently...

Sincerely,

Doubt it...

Hoot

I know...Your name is in the upperleft corner of your post...

 

[Schweddy]

I appreciate everyone's time and effort into making DP an enjoyable place, and if my words are offensive...ban me. I'll live, but if not banned, get used to me speaking my mind, but always in a respectful manner.

I personally appreciate your opinion. I think your opinion is flawed at times, but your voice is always heard by me anyway. If within the rules, you may type whatever you wish. That is the overall goal anyway.

With that said, not sure it is realized how hard it is to get banned here at DP.
There are truely bells and whistles - discussion - warnings - requests and the like.

If I could (will not for privacy), I would copy a thread that is over 6 pages long on a mod discussion of if we should even "warn" a user. Granted it was a unique circumstance, and not clearly defined in the rules. In the end, a warning was not given. Took forever to come to that conclusion. That is just simple warning - imaging the suspend and ban requests!! lol

It takes a person willing to make a strong commitment to be a mod here.
We are often worse than ****ing lawyers (no offense to attorneys out there).

 

[mixedmedia]

Thanks, Simon, I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your reply.

Don't let it go to your head, but whenever I see posts by you or someone like Pacridge, I make a point of reading your words, because I know I will usually learn something.

On the other hand, I also make a point of reading posts by members like Stinger and Aquapub because I am sometimes amazed at the short-sightedness. LOL ( As I said, don't let it go to your head)

Oops! I am in the basement, right? Don't want to get suspended! LOL!

I'm afraid there exists a political bias in some mods who tend to be persuaded by other mods to suspend members because of the political leanings of another. That's why I believe a private vote of suspension would prevent certain mods from using undue influence on others.

As far as no dissent? I don't believe this can be accurately guaged when the vote is not private. Some mods may be intimidated from truely speaking their minds about the level of justification for suspension.

Sure you don't have any little Hitlers in your midst? LOL

Again, thanks for your time.

You needn't be afraid. No such a thing exists. If there's any drama being created here I'm afraid it's not by the mod team.