Catholics: Help Us Understand Your Theology

[RAMOSS]

Do you consider yourself to be Christian?

No, I never was brought up in the Christian tradition. I was brought up Jewish.

 

[Daisy]

No, I never was brought up in the Christian tradition. I was brought up Jewish.

So what are you complaining about?

 

[RAMOSS]

So what are you complaining about?

I was observing that certian people will accuse anybody who disagrees with them with being 'anti-christian bigots'. These are the same people that seem to attach JW's and Mormons the most too

 

[Logician Man]

And then if you disagree with them, you are 'anti-Christian'.

Yes, no doubt many here by design or not, confuse 'non- Christian' with 'anti-Christian.' ( big difference )

 

[Daisy]

I was observing that certian people will accuse anybody who disagrees with them with being 'anti-christian bigots'. These are the same people that seem to attach JW's and Mormons the most too

Yeah, well, I don't care...they do not define me...you shouldn't either...

 

[iguanaman]

Most of those think unbelievers like you are doomed.

Dying like every other creature on Earth is not being "doomed". You are in for a big nothing too. Why you fear death so much that you debase your humanity is your problem not mine..

 

[Logician Man]

Most of those think unbelievers like you are doomed.

I remember clearly you were the very first here at DP to inform me I was 'doomed.' .... although those weren't your exact words you used.

 

[it's just me]

No, Catholics created spaces where science could take place, once they stopped meddling. You think Catholics invented science? Ask Galileo, who was placed under lifetime house arrest by the Catholics. Ask Giordano Bruno, who was outright murdered by the Catholics. You honestly need to do more than gloss over the facts.

No, you're the one glossing over the facts, I would suggest that you find out the real story of what happened to Galileo.

But if that's the way you want it, atheists have done nothing to distinguish themselves as a group except murder tens of millions or hundreds of millions of people in the name of the State, and you don't have to go back 1000 years, it all happened in the last century.

 

[Cephus]

But if that's the way you want it, atheists have done nothing to distinguish themselves as a group except murder tens of millions or hundreds of millions of people in the name of the State, and you don't have to go back 1000 years, it all happened in the last century.

And you notice none of that happened in the name of atheism. It is literally impossible to do anything in the name of atheism. But you get someone like Hitler who killed the Jews because he believed God told him to and you don't want to talk about that. Imagine that.

 

[Dragonfly]

atheists have done nothing to distinguish themselves as a group except murder tens of millions or hundreds of millions of people in the name of the State, and you don't have to go back 1000 years, it all happened in the last century.

Wait, what?

Hundreds of millions murdered by Atheists?

Please explain, with links to actual facts.

 

[Dragonfly]

I think I already know but knock yourself out.

First off, are you talking about "venom" you (think you) see here at DP, or are you talking about a broader spectrum of "venom"?

 

[Logician Man]

And you notice none of that happened in the name of atheism. It is literally impossible to do anything in the name of atheism. But you get someone like Hitler who killed the Jews because he believed God told him to and you don't want to talk about that. Imagine that.

I would add that I've never met one atheist who doesn't openly and vehemently detest and condemn the atrocities committed by the likes of Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao....yet Christians will to this very day attempt to defend and rationalize the close to 30 million killed/murdered by the Christian God ( per biblical scripture ) in the O.T., many of which were pregnant women,elderly, babies, and little children....all in the name of 'the greater good.'

 

[it's just me]

I would add that I've never met one atheist who doesn't openly and vehemently detest and condemn the atrocities committed by the likes of Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao....yet Christians will to this very day attempt to defend and rationalize the close to 30 million killed/murdered by the Christian God ( per biblical scripture ) in the O.T., many of which were pregnant women,elderly, babies, and little children....all in the name of 'the greater good.'

I thought scripture was a fairy tale. If it's true you are obliged to take it seriously. If it's not, why do you keep yammering on this?

 

[it's just me]

First off, are you talking about "venom" you (think you) see here at DP, or are you talking about a broader spectrum of "venom"?

I thought you were going to tell me what you thought, not drag me down a rabbit trail.

 

[it's just me]

And you notice none of that happened in the name of atheism. It is literally impossible to do anything in the name of atheism. But you get someone like Hitler who killed the Jews because he believed God told him to and you don't want to talk about that. Imagine that.

No, it happened because a bunch of people thought they had a better idea, the idea being that the State, not you, knows what's best for you. Forcing their government on their fellow man. Sound familiar?

And don't bother with the "Hitler was a Christian" jazz, everybody knows that's bogus.

 

[it's just me]

I don't disagree. No religious hospital should have to perform abortions, vasectomies or any other procedure they don't approve of (there are exceptions for life saving things, I imagine...). And no one should have to bake a gay cake or marry a gay couple.

On the other hand, Kim Davis has no right to refuse to do her job because some aspect of it began to offend her. Her 4 divorces and extramarital sex offend me, but I don't martyr myself over it. Christians in America are not a "victim" class.

The fact is, Jesus and Christ are not in the Declaration or the Constitution. No religion is in those documents, unless you want to argue for Deism. The 1st amendment protects the state from the church and the church from the state - at least that was the intent. If those guys wanted a Christian Nation they could have founded one. They chose not to.

There's actually a happy medium possible with these things, but extremists on both sides are going try to push things into their sides ditch.

But "freedom of religion" is. And we are beyond the happy medium stage.

 

[Dragonfly]

I thought you were going to tell me what you thought, not drag me down a rabbit trail.

I'm just trying to understand what level of response you are seeking.

 

[it's just me]

First things first. You made a positive claim. Meet your Burden of Proof, and then I will post my evidence. ( debating 101 )

I believe it was you who claimed someone told you that you were "doomed" or something to that effect?

Never mind, I know how much of my time this is worth.

 

[it's just me]

I'm just trying to understand what level of response you are seeking.

We're getting off the subject. Better to just drop it.

 

[Logician Man]

I believe it was you who claimed someone told you that you were "doomed" or something to that effect?

Never mind, I know how much of my time this is worth.

///// never mind ///// done! :2wave:

 

[calamity]

Do Catholics consider Mormons and J.Ws. to be saved Christians, or does the RCC doctrine teach that these religious sects are cultists who will not be saved post mortem and face the same fate as agnostics, atheists, and other non-Christian ( not anti-Christian ) religious skeptics ?

No one gets saved. /thread

 

[Dragonfly]

We're getting off the subject. Better to just drop it.

I'm down with that. Any chance you wanna get back to this, and my questions about it?

No, you're the one glossing over the facts, I would suggest that you find out the real story of what happened to Galileo.

But if that's the way you want it, atheists have done nothing to distinguish themselves as a group except murder tens of millions or hundreds of millions of people in the name of the State, and you don't have to go back 1000 years, it all happened in the last century.

Wait, what?

Hundreds of millions murdered by Atheists?

Please explain, with links to actual facts.

 

[Cephus]

No, it happened because a bunch of people thought they had a better idea, the idea being that the State, not you, knows what's best for you. Forcing their government on their fellow man. Sound familiar?

And don't bother with the "Hitler was a Christian" jazz, everybody knows that's bogus.

Yes, which is not atheism, it's communism. Atheism had no responsibility for what Stalin did whatsoever, any more than his mustache did. Hitler wrote extensively that he was a Christian. You might not like it, that doesn't mean it isn't so.

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."

The evidence is entirely against you. What you want to be true, or not true, has no bearing on what is actually so. The Catholic Church outrightly supported Nazism and, even following Germany's defeat, helped to smuggle Nazi war criminals out of Germany under Catholic Red Cross visas. You can't say they were afraid of Hitler after Hitler was dead and Germany was defeated. They did it because they believed in the cause.

You're just wrong.

 

[RAMOSS]

No, you're the one glossing over the facts, I would suggest that you find out the real story of what happened to Galileo.

But if that's the way you want it, atheists have done nothing to distinguish themselves as a group except murder tens of millions or hundreds of millions of people in the name of the State, and you don't have to go back 1000 years, it all happened in the last century.

The New Testament makes claims about what happened there, however, it can not be confirmed by an outside source.

 

[it's just me]

Yes, which is not atheism, it's communism. Atheism had no responsibility for what Stalin did whatsoever, any more than his mustache did. Hitler wrote extensively that he was a Christian. You might not like it, that doesn't mean it isn't so.

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."

The evidence is entirely against you. What you want to be true, or not true, has no bearing on what is actually so. The Catholic Church outrightly supported Nazism and, even following Germany's defeat, helped to smuggle Nazi war criminals out of Germany under Catholic Red Cross visas. You can't say they were afraid of Hitler after Hitler was dead and Germany was defeated. They did it because they believed in the cause.

You're just wrong.

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Hitler used Christianity for his own ends, anybody who knows anything about it knows that's true, what you are propounding here are nothing more than the same anti Christian talking points I have been hearing for too many years, I can't believe people still throw this around.

As far as atheism and communism, read the communist manifesto and tell me atheism had nothing to do with all of those deaths.