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Capitalism is not compatible with democracy. (1 Viewer)

Many people believe capitalism and democracy are consistent, but the truth is that they are entirely antagonistic to each other. To see why, let's first consider socialism and democracy. Woodrow Wilson, who was a progenitor of the progressive movement, found socialism and democracy to be inseparable:

Roundly described, socialism is a proposition that every community, by means of whatever forms of organization may be most effective for the purpose, see to it for itself that each one of its members finds the employment for which he is best suited and is rewarded according to his diligence and merit, all proper surroundings of moral influence being secured to him by the public authority.

That's the socialist dream right there. He continues:

‘State socialism’ is willing to act though state authority as it is at present organized. It proposes that all idea of a limitation of public authority by individual rights be put out of view, and that the State consider itself bound to stop only at what is unwise or futile in its universal superintendence alike of individual and of public interests. The thesis of the states socialist is, that no line can be drawn between private and public affairs which the State may not cross at will.

No limit on government power, which is basically what all leftists want. Here's the money quote:

Applied in a democratic state, such doctrine sounds radical, but not revolutionary. It is only an acceptance of the extremest logical conclusions deducible from democratic principles long ago received as respectable. For it is very clear that in fundamental theory socialism and democracy are almost if not quite one and the same. They both rest at bottom upon the absolute right of the community to determine its own destiny and that of its members. Men as communities are supreme over men as individuals.

Another way to put would be, "The common interest before self-interest".

This is really what socialism is all about. What's good for the group takes priority over individual rights, and individual rights always come down to specific property rights.

Now let's consider capitalism, where the individual is supreme, and the community can go f itself.

Capitalism is predicated on private ownership, which means it is based on property rights, yet the only way a democratic state can exist is by violating property rights. How can an entity which relies on a form of extortion in order to fund itself in any way be consistent with capitalism? Virtually anything the state does violates property rights in one way or another.

Because of socialism's mile-long track record of failure, many moderate leftists support "regulated capitalism" instead of socialism. Of course the term "regulated capitalism" is nothing but a euphemism for economic fascism where "private" ownership is permitted, but virtually all economic activity is taxed and regulated by the state. The economy Mussolini created was a progressive wet dream.

To summarize, Wilson was correct: democracy and socialism go hand in hand, while democracy and capitalism have nothing in common.
 
A question.

What if the voters in a socialist state voted to not have socialism anymore?

Would the state honor that under the principle of "the absolute right of the community to determine its own destiny", or would it set the right to vote aside under the principle of "a limitation of public authority by individual rights be put out of view" if it does not serve the public interest as the state sees it?
 
Many people believe capitalism and democracy are consistent, but the truth is that they are entirely antagonistic to each other. To see why, let's first consider socialism and democracy. Woodrow Wilson, who was a progenitor of the progressive movement, found socialism and democracy to be inseparable:



That's the socialist dream right there. He continues:



No limit on government power, which is basically what all leftists want. Here's the money quote:



Another way to put would be, "The common interest before self-interest".

This is really what socialism is all about. What's good for the group takes priority over individual rights, and individual rights always come down to specific property rights.

Now let's consider capitalism, where the individual is supreme, and the community can go f itself.

Capitalism is predicated on private ownership, which means it is based on property rights, yet the only way a democratic state can exist is by violating property rights. How can an entity which relies on a form of extortion in order to fund itself in any way be consistent with capitalism? Virtually anything the state does violates property rights in one way or another.

Because of socialism's mile-long track record of failure, many moderate leftists support "regulated capitalism" instead of socialism. Of course the term "regulated capitalism" is nothing but a euphemism for economic fascism where "private" ownership is permitted, but virtually all economic activity is taxed and regulated by the state. The economy Mussolini created was a progressive wet dream.

To summarize, Wilson was correct: democracy and socialism go hand in hand, while democracy and capitalism have nothing in common.
We choose our rulers-------so it is compatible. We get what we choose.
 
A few quotes about socialism:

"You can vote your way into Socialism but you'll have to shoot your way out." - Larry Lambert

"The goal of socialism is communism" - Vladimir Lenin

"Wherever socialism spread, misery followed." - Greg Gutfeld

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill

Socialism in its true form is bad for liberty and freedom because government is given too much power.
 
A question.

What if the voters in a socialist state voted to not have socialism anymore?

Would the state honor that under the principle of "the absolute right of the community to determine its own destiny", or would it set the right to vote aside under the principle of "a limitation of public authority by individual rights be put out of view" if it does not serve the public interest as the state sees it?


I would guess the latter. Historically, virtually all socialist states were/are one party states which do not allow free and fair elections, because if they did, the people they rule over would vote them out the first chance they got.
 
I would guess the latter. Historically, virtually all socialist states were/are one party states which do not allow free and fair elections, because if they did, the people they rule over would vote them out the first chance they got.
Then you would no longer have democracy and how was Wilson correct when he said socialism and democracy go hand in hand? Seems like they can work together, or be at odds with one another.

I think one is an economic system and one is a political system. It's like comparing fire and a fireplace.
 
In that case, how do socialism and democracy go hand in hand? Seems like they can work together, or be at odds with one another.

Those were dictatorships, not democracies. Public control of the means of production aligns more with a voting populace than with having a single individual make all the important decisions.
 
Those were dictatorships, not democracies. Public control of the means of production aligns more with a voting populace than with having a single individual make all the important decisions.
If you're saying that socialism and dictatorships can go hand-in-hand just as easily as socialism and democracy, then I agree with you. But even that's not the whole truth.

Given that democratic socialism can turn into a dictatorship if the state feels challenged, I'd say they go more hand-in-glove. One supersedes the and envelops the other
 
It must be a lonely life thinking that community can go f itself.

I made the statement in the context of production. For example, in a democracy, the community decides what you may build on your own land, while under free market capitalism, the community can go f itself and you build whatever you want.
 
Well, since we are NOT a "Democracy," then the arguments don't apply. The United States at almost every level from towns to cities, from counties to States, and from States to the Government of the United States, indicates various levels of Republican government.

Democrats (including Progressives, Left-Leaning Liberals, and Socialists) desperately WANT Americans to believe this nation is a Democracy. That way they can argue that Representative Government in a Republic is not really working for their best interests. They assert that this creates levels of power that don't represent the interests of the People where a Democracy would.

Of course, this ignores all the evils of a Democracy, not the least being the ability of any Majority to abuse any identified Minority which fails to toe the Majority line and seeks to dispute with them. These minorities always become the scapegoats of the demagogues who shepherd the massed herd of supporters, taking from "public enemies" and giving to supporters.

Live with the fact we have a Republic. The only thing common citizens vote for are the periodic election of Representatives at different levels and having different responsibilities. This, and the occasional "grassroot referendums" that pop up from time to time.
 
Well, since we are NOT a "Democracy,"

Stopped reading right there.

then the arguments don't apply. The United States at almost every level from towns to cities, from counties to States, and from States to the Government of the United States, indicates various levels of Republican government.

Democrats (including Progressives, Left-Leaning Liberals, and Socialists) desperately WANT Americans to believe this nation is a Democracy. That way they can argue that Representative Government in a Republic is not really working for their best interests. They assert that this creates levels of power that don't represent the interests of the People where a Democracy would.

Of course, this ignores all the evils of a Democracy, not the least being the ability of any Majority to abuse any identified Minority which fails to toe the Majority line and seeks to dispute with them. These minorities always become the scapegoats of the demagogues who shepherd the massed herd of supporters, taking from "public enemies" and giving to supporters.

Live with the fact we have a Republic. The only thing common citizens vote for are the periodic election of Representatives at different levels and having different responsibilities. This, and the occasional "grassroot referendums" that pop up from time to time.
 
Well, since we are NOT a "Democracy," then the arguments don't apply. The United States at almost every level from towns to cities, from counties to States, and from States to the Government of the United States, indicates various levels of Republican government.

Democrats (including Progressives, Left-Leaning Liberals, and Socialists) desperately WANT Americans to believe this nation is a Democracy. That way they can argue that Representative Government in a Republic is not really working for their best interests. They assert that this creates levels of power that don't represent the interests of the People where a Democracy would.

Of course, this ignores all the evils of a Democracy, not the least being the ability of any Majority to abuse any identified Minority which fails to toe the Majority line and seeks to dispute with them. These minorities always become the scapegoats of the demagogues who shepherd the massed herd of supporters, taking from "public enemies" and giving to supporters.

Live with the fact we have a Republic. The only thing common citizens vote for are the periodic election of Representatives at different levels and having different responsibilities. This, and the occasional "grassroot referendums" that pop up from time to time.
Spot on.
 
Well, since we are NOT a "Democracy," then the arguments don't apply. The United States at almost every level from towns to cities, from counties to States, and from States to the Government of the United States, indicates various levels of Republican government.

Democrats (including Progressives, Left-Leaning Liberals, and Socialists) desperately WANT Americans to believe this nation is a Democracy. That way they can argue that Representative Government in a Republic is not really working for their best interests. They assert that this creates levels of power that don't represent the interests of the People where a Democracy would.

Of course, this ignores all the evils of a Democracy, not the least being the ability of any Majority to abuse any identified Minority which fails to toe the Majority line and seeks to dispute with them. These minorities always become the scapegoats of the demagogues who shepherd the massed herd of supporters, taking from "public enemies" and giving to supporters.

Live with the fact we have a Republic. The only thing common citizens vote for are the periodic election of Representatives at different levels and having different responsibilities. This, and the occasional "grassroot referendums" that pop up from time to time.

This is another tired purist argument because we never attempted pure democracy, we have representative democracy.
Purist arguments are tired because purity does not actually exist or when it does, its time is as fleeting as the half life of a radioisotope.

Purity is not something Nature tolerates, it stifles the arts, sciences and human relations.
Purity is fear, purity is ignorance, purity is suffocation.

We've never had pure capitalism OR pure democracy, so the argument by rights ought to be "how much capitalism is compatible with representative democracy?"
 
Many people believe capitalism and democracy are consistent, but the truth is that they are entirely antagonistic to each other. To see why, let's first consider socialism and democracy. Woodrow Wilson, who was a progenitor of the progressive movement, found socialism and democracy to be inseparable:



That's the socialist dream right there. He continues:



No limit on government power, which is basically what all leftists want. Here's the money quote:



Another way to put would be, "The common interest before self-interest".

This is really what socialism is all about. What's good for the group takes priority over individual rights, and individual rights always come down to specific property rights.

Now let's consider capitalism, where the individual is supreme, and the community can go f itself.

Capitalism is predicated on private ownership, which means it is based on property rights, yet the only way a democratic state can exist is by violating property rights. How can an entity which relies on a form of extortion in order to fund itself in any way be consistent with capitalism? Virtually anything the state does violates property rights in one way or another.

Because of socialism's mile-long track record of failure, many moderate leftists support "regulated capitalism" instead of socialism. Of course the term "regulated capitalism" is nothing but a euphemism for economic fascism where "private" ownership is permitted, but virtually all economic activity is taxed and regulated by the state. The economy Mussolini created was a progressive wet dream.

To summarize, Wilson was correct: democracy and socialism go hand in hand, while democracy and capitalism have nothing in common.
Socialism is not compatible with democracy.
 
The United States is a Constitutional Democratic Republic. Always has been since the day of its founding.

What remains to be seen is whether or not a second Trump administration will be permitted to destroy that.
 
I couldn’t disagree with this blog’s assertion more strongly.

No two institutions in the history of the planet have done more to improve the human condition than have the combination of capitalism and democracy.

If this is incompatibility, please sign the world up for more of it.
 
It's capitalism that raises your standard of living, not democracy.

In fact, democracy is currently lowering the standard of living for tens of millions of Americans. Look at what your democratic institutions have done to the housing and healthcare markets.
Sorry, no. Capitalism and democracy are two sides of the same coin. They both empower the individual with choices and thus allow participants to act in their own self-interests and not someone else’s.

With both in force, unpopular products find the same end as unpopular leaders.
 
Sorry, no. Capitalism and democracy are two sides of the same coin. They both empower the individual with choices and thus allow participants to act in their own self-interests and not someone else’s.

With both in force, unpopular products find the same end as unpopular leaders.

OK, but NIMBYism (including zoning/building restrictions with ‘grandfather causes’) is folks acting in their own self-interest.

Since many (if not most) local governments get the bulk of their revenue from property taxation, they have a vested interest in having (helping to create?) constantly rising property values.
 
OK, but NIMBYism (including zoning/building restrictions with ‘grandfather causes’) is folks acting in their own self-interest.
Yes, but so what? Whose interests should they act on?


Since many (if not most) local governments get the bulk of their revenue from property taxation, they have a vested interest in having (helping to create?) constantly rising property values.
Agreed, but again, how does that dispute anything I've said or support the assertions in the OP?
 

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