Can we agree on this

[Craig234]

The future of Americans' freedoms is threatened by the powerful mass media systems.

When our country was founded, there were just 'people' talking and writing. There were issues with free speech being allowed or not and that's about it. It was a time of idealism about the power of 'rational man', who was making many discoveries in science.

Flash forward to today, and a century of developing ever-more effective opinion manipulation technologies, driven by advertising and used for politics.

Now we have over half of one party who believes an absurd lie that the election was stolen and tens of millions who can't understand facts about things like climate change or the Qanon insanity.

The public has pretty much shown is isn't able to be rational against the powerful advertising and propaganda systems in many if not most individuals. When there are billions of dollars to be made, the ability to create messages that mislead people is very powerful. Going forward, our country looks more like lab rats being led around than the rational citizens our founding fathers expected.

Of course, everyone things that's only a problem for others. Regardless, it's easy to see how we go from the current 1/3 nuts to 2/3, and the game is over, as the technology becomes ever-more loud and effective. And it's money driving the messaging - which results in controlling people for power. Who's left to complain - as if complaining would do any good - if 2/3 are indoctrinated?

"Free speech" has been weaponized. It's not now useful for random citizen to say a politician sucks, it's protecting mass media to greatly influence public opinion for wealthy interests.

Right now, it's still more 'ad hoc' - people like Rupert Murdoch and Sean Hannity making money by exploiting the technology. But there's every reason to expect it to become a more organized effort - think the Nazis or China. If you think people will resists, think about the supporters and opponents of 1/6 screaming at each other about who the traitors and who the patriots are.

If you think 'experts' will be heard more, think about how climate change science is not effectively heard despite countless experts. How badly Coronavirus experts have been heard by tens of millions. If anyone wanted to build support for some change to this - where would they be heard? The mass media are making the billions.

 

[ecofarm]

People have always needed to be able to smell bullshit. There was always bullshit for sale and there always will be. People actually bought a lot more bullshit before tech. Before tech, the average Joe believed impossibly dumb crap. Just go back like 50 years and check out some common beliefs; people were idiots.

 

[phoenix2020]

Critical thinking and challenging beliefs are important skills. Schools often try their best but it is difficult for them to overcome a mindset of indoctrination at home and in churches for many people who grow up being told not to question certain beliefs.

 

[Mycroft]

The future of Americans' freedoms is threatened by the powerful mass media systems.

When our country was founded, there were just 'people' talking and writing. There were issues with free speech being allowed or not and that's about it. It was a time of idealism about the power of 'rational man', who was making many discoveries in science.

Flash forward to today, and a century of developing ever-more effective opinion manipulation technologies, driven by advertising and used for politics.

Now we have over half of one party who believes an absurd lie that the election was stolen and tens of millions who can't understand facts about things like climate change or the Qanon insanity.

The public has pretty much shown is isn't able to be rational against the powerful advertising and propaganda systems in many if not most individuals. When there are billions of dollars to be made, the ability to create messages that mislead people is very powerful. Going forward, our country looks more like lab rats being led around than the rational citizens our founding fathers expected.

Of course, everyone things that's only a problem for others. Regardless, it's easy to see how we go from the current 1/3 nuts to 2/3, and the game is over, as the technology becomes ever-more loud and effective. And it's money driving the messaging - which results in controlling people for power. Who's left to complain - as if complaining would do any good - if 2/3 are indoctrinated?

"Free speech" has been weaponized. It's not now useful for random citizen to say a politician sucks, it's protecting mass media to greatly influence public opinion for wealthy interests.

Right now, it's still more 'ad hoc' - people like Rupert Murdoch and Sean Hannity making money by exploiting the technology. But there's every reason to expect it to become a more organized effort - think the Nazis or China. If you think people will resists, think about the supporters and opponents of 1/6 screaming at each other about who the traitors and who the patriots are.

If you think 'experts' will be heard more, think about how climate change science is not effectively heard despite countless experts. How badly Coronavirus experts have been heard by tens of millions. If anyone wanted to build support for some change to this - where would they be heard? The mass media are making the billions.

Yes...it's too bad that "people like Rupert Murdoch and Sean Hannity" are still able to counter the unified propaganda from the likes of ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, Bloomberg, most of the remaining print media, AP, UPI...the list goes on. If "people like Rupert Murdoch and Sean Hannity" could be eliminated, we could change that 2/3 indoctrinated to a nearly full 3/3.

We certainly can't allow anyone to think and speak for themselves, can we?

 

[Yakshi]

Critical thinking and challenging beliefs are important skills. Schools often try their best but it is difficult for them to overcome a mindset of indoctrination at home and in churches for many people who grow up being told not to question certain beliefs.

I fully agree with the point that critical thinking should get even more emphasis in our schools.

 

[nvflash]

The future of Americans' freedoms is threatened by the powerful mass media systems.

When our country was founded, there were just 'people' talking and writing. There were issues with free speech being allowed or not and that's about it. It was a time of idealism about the power of 'rational man', who was making many discoveries in science.

Flash forward to today, and a century of developing ever-more effective opinion manipulation technologies, driven by advertising and used for politics.

Now we have over half of one party who believes an absurd lie that the election was stolen and tens of millions who can't understand facts about things like climate change or the Qanon insanity.

The public has pretty much shown is isn't able to be rational against the powerful advertising and propaganda systems in many if not most individuals. When there are billions of dollars to be made, the ability to create messages that mislead people is very powerful. Going forward, our country looks more like lab rats being led around than the rational citizens our founding fathers expected.

Of course, everyone things that's only a problem for others. Regardless, it's easy to see how we go from the current 1/3 nuts to 2/3, and the game is over, as the technology becomes ever-more loud and effective. And it's money driving the messaging - which results in controlling people for power. Who's left to complain - as if complaining would do any good - if 2/3 are indoctrinated?

"Free speech" has been weaponized. It's not now useful for random citizen to say a politician sucks, it's protecting mass media to greatly influence public opinion for wealthy interests.

Right now, it's still more 'ad hoc' - people like Rupert Murdoch and Sean Hannity making money by exploiting the technology. But there's every reason to expect it to become a more organized effort - think the Nazis or China. If you think people will resists, think about the supporters and opponents of 1/6 screaming at each other about who the traitors and who the patriots are.

If you think 'experts' will be heard more, think about how climate change science is not effectively heard despite countless experts. How badly Coronavirus experts have been heard by tens of millions. If anyone wanted to build support for some change to this - where would they be heard? The mass media are making the billions.

If you think Fox News or other "right" news outlets are the only ones peddling BS narratives, you're half the problem.

 

[rickc]

If you think Fox News or other "right" news outlets are the only ones peddling BS narratives, you're half the problem.

Right wing propaganda is very effective

These people have been indoctrinated for decades.

I don't believe they can be saved

They live in a separate reality

 

[Slartibartfast]

I fully agree with the point that critical thinking should get even more emphasis in our schools.

Given how the brain responds to much of this type of propaganda, i am not sure that stronger critical thinking skills are an effective counter

 

[joluoto]

One of the problem is people using social media as a news source. Social media will push stories after an algoritm that decides what to push to you from previously read articles. The more down the rabbit hole you seem to sink, the more crazier stuff the algoritm will push to you. Social media networks don't care what you read, as long as you read it on their platform.

 

[nvflash]

Right wing propaganda is very effective

These people have been indoctrinated for decades.

I don't believe they can be saved

They live in a separate reality

Typical mindset, it's always the other side indoctrinating people with false narratives.

Someday you may come to question the false narratives of left wing media too, that is, if you have half a brain. Neither left not right even go to any lengths to hide it, but people that live in the eco chamber never question it.

The truth is, the truth has always been "buyer beware", even in the dawn of the Republic you had newspaper, pamphlets, and books peddled Whig vs Democratic-Republican false narratives.

 

[OrphanSlug]

The way this thread is already playing out confirms the OP.

 

[Torus34]

Danger from propaganda lies within ourselves. Someone standing on a soapbox [Ed.: For soapbox, read TV, radio, newspaper and/or internet forum,] and shouting Marxist, socialist, far right conservative or far left liberal slogans presents no problem. It is the degree of willingness for some of us to accept and spread the 'message' that could, in an extreme case, threaten our democracy*. The percent of us who are willing to not only accept but foster, as an example, populist authoritarianism should be cause for concern.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

* Yes, Gotcha! Gang, I know the United States of America is a republic form of democracy.

 

[Acadia]

Critical thinking and challenging beliefs are important skills. Schools often try their best but it is difficult for them to overcome a mindset of indoctrination at home and in churches for many people who grow up being told not to question certain beliefs.

Schools are quashing critical thinking skills and have supplanted it with CRT, which is racist and marxist.

 

[Acadia]

Typical mindset, it's always the other side indoctrinating people with false narratives.

Someday you may come to question the false narratives of left wing media too, that is, if you have half a brain. Neither left not right even go to any lengths to hide it, but people that live in the eco chamber never question it.

The truth is, the truth has always been "buyer beware", even in the dawn of the Republic you had newspaper, pamphlets, and books peddled Whig vs Democratic-Republican false narratives.

Amazing the OP will point to FOX, when the left-wing, activist media has pushed collusion after collusion, from the "very fine people" hoax to the Russia hoax to the pee pee tape.
XiNN is a joke.

 

[roguenuke]

Critical thinking and challenging beliefs are important skills. Schools often try their best but it is difficult for them to overcome a mindset of indoctrination at home and in churches for many people who grow up being told not to question certain beliefs.

This reminded me of a memory from high school, one where some girl in my class was talking/ranting about how the science teachers were wrong, she didn't believe in Evolution because the Bible, her church told her Evolution couldn't have happened because God created everything. It was one of those moments that made me realize how easy it was to use religion as an excuse for ignorance.

 

[Craig234]

One of the problem is people using social media as a news source. Social media will push stories after an algoritm that decides what to push to you from previously read articles. The more down the rabbit hole you seem to sink, the more crazier stuff the algoritm will push to you. Social media networks don't care what you read, as long as you read it on their platform.

And the content has to exist to read, and there are a couple motives for people creating it. One is simply 'loyalty' for profit - shows and networks who want loyal viewers for advertisers - and the other is even more dangerous, powerful interests manipulating opinions for their own benefit and power. We have just a taste of that watching trump. As I said, imagine a China-like government. What's to stop it?

 

[Craig234]

Danger from propaganda lies within ourselves. Someone standing on a soapbox [Ed.: For soapbox, read TV, radio, newspaper and/or internet forum,] and shouting Marxist, socialist, far right conservative or far left liberal slogans presents no problem. It is the degree of willingness for some of us to accept and spread the 'message' that could, in an extreme case, threaten our democracy*. The percent of us who are willing to not only accept but foster, as an example, populist authoritarianism should be cause for concern.

You're missing my point, by implying that people can simply refuse the mass media messaging. My point is, that a century of increasing technology in opinion manipulation, and the mass media system getting louder all the time, create a system that the public won't resist for a majority. You might as well argue that North Koreans should just not agree with the government's propaganda.

Instead of referring to it as people being 'willing to foster' messages, it's recognizing the power of the mass media system to manipulate views overcomes people. Look at how effectively our whole national media system gets dismissed by tens of millions by yelling "fake news" at it loudly enough, making people think THEY don't accept lies, they refuse to listen to the 'legitimate' media. It gets a lot more effective than yelling 'fake news'.

 

[Craig234]

Typical mindset, it's always the other side indoctrinating people with false narratives.

Someday you may come to question the false narratives of left wing media too, that is, if you have half a brain. Neither left not right even go to any lengths to hide it, but people that live in the eco chamber never question it.

The truth is, the truth has always been "buyer beware", even in the dawn of the Republic you had newspaper, pamphlets, and books peddled Whig vs Democratic-Republican false narratives.

You are presenting a false position by distorting. Part of the distortion is a false equivalency. The issue isn't right versus left, though contrary to your opinion, the right is much worse than the left on this. The issue is the power of the mass media system which might be abused by any power, left right or neither. Does it really matter whether you call China's government right or left?

 

[Craig234]

I fully agree with the point that critical thinking should get even more emphasis in our schools.

As do I, but it's not clear how much that will deal with the power of the mass media technology. It's somewhat like teaching 'duck, run and cover' drills to protect from nuclear bombs.

 

[Craig234]

People aren't recognizing the danger because it's not yet really used by a China-like government. So they don't notice it. It's used to sell products, and it works - who cares? Fox uses it to gain ratings for money, and they became the #1 'news source' - who cares? A side effect of that was the election trump and our radical Republicans in Congress, and a third of the country being in the 'trump cult' even though trump doesn't even own the media.

That was simply the media giving him $2 billion in free coverage because he had good ratings that made them money, giving him the presidency. It'd be a lot worse if the media were serving a power like a China-like government. To repeat my question, how are the people going to resist the power of that mass media?

 

[nvflash]

You are presenting a false position by distorting. Part of the distortion is a false equivalency. The issue isn't right versus left, though contrary to your opinion, the right is much worse than the left on this. The issue is the power of the mass media system which might be abused by any power, left right or neither. Does it really matter whether you call China's government right or left?

You made the issue about only the Right in your first post, I didn't make any false positions or false equivalencies.

I flat out stated the fact that all our major "news" organizations are guilty of perpetuating false narratives.

The only people that don't know it are dumb sheep, here to be fleeced and lead to slaughter.

If you want to know the truth, fallow the money, everyone knows, fallow the money, just not every zero knows it.

 

[Felis Leo]

Yes, power in media has become far too concentrated, with a handful of individuals, most notably the heads of Facebook, Google and Twitter deciding what news is put directly in front of us via opaque algorithms which feed into and exacerbate our already-existing biases which make large swathes of our population easier to rile up and manipulate. These models have also helped to kill countless smaller media companies and local newspapers in our country. That in turn helped to create partisan propaganda echo chambers, brought to us by toxic ad-driven monopolies. These companies must be broken up and their influence and market power must be decentralized.

 

[Craig234]

You made the issue about only the Right in your first post, I didn't make any false positions or false equivalencies.

I flat out stated the fact that all our major "news" organizations are guilty of perpetuating false narratives.

The only people that don't know it are dumb sheep, here to be fleeced and lead to slaughter.

If you want to know the truth, fallow the money, everyone knows, fallow the money, just not every zero knows it.

You badly do not understand the issue.

And you misunderstood when I directly explained things. So, I'm talking to a wall.

 

[rickc]

To repeat my question, how are the people going to resist the power of that mass media?

Unfortunately most are too stupid to separate the wheat from the chaff.

The propagandists are very wise to the psychology of propaganda. They feed their audience what they want to believe. Then, after establishing creditability, they feed them what they want them to believe.

Incredible how it works. People believe narratives that are so obviously untrue!

 

[nvflash]

To repeat my question, how are the people going to resist the power of that mass media?

Unfortunately most are too stupid to separate the wheat from the chaff.

The propagandists are very wise to the psychology of propaganda. They feed their audience what they want to believe. Then, after establishing creditability, they feed them what they want them to believe.

Incredible how it works. People believe narratives that are so obviously untrue!

When it comes to conspiracy theories, people just eat them up, and they become mainstream, at which point most people don't even question them, and even when somebody does, they get shouted don't by the masses.

The truth is a fickle bitch, and it's often just a question of "who's truth".