Can we agree on this

[eohrnberger]

Yes, power in media has become far too concentrated, with a handful of individuals, most notably the heads of Facebook, Google and Twitter deciding what news is put directly in front of us via opaque algorithms which feed into and exacerbate our already-existing biases which make large swathes of our population easier to rile up and manipulate. This helps to create partisan propaganda echo chambers, brought to us by toxic ad-driven monopolies. These companies must be broken up and their influence and market power must be decentralized.

A start would be taking 1/2 the News media's HQs out of the NYC / East Coast echo chamber, would it not?

 

[joluoto]

And the content has to exist to read, and there are a couple motives for people creating it. One is simply 'loyalty' for profit - shows and networks who want loyal viewers for advertisers - and the other is even more dangerous, powerful interests manipulating opinions for their own benefit and power. We have just a taste of that watching trump. As I said, imagine a China-like government. What's to stop it?

There's today a whole industry of wingnut fake news producers. And basically there are three kinds: a) the ones that produce it purely for profit, there's money to be made from this, b) the ones that are purely ideological, usually backed by a government (see RT or Sputnik), and c) the ones that are ideological, but also does it for profit (i.e. the hybrids).

There's also a difference between those that tries to look like alternatives to mainstream news, and tries to break into old media, not just the Internet. And those that doesn't want to look like mainstream news at all, because the people they go for reject the whole notion of traditional looking media.

 

[Torus34]

You're missing my point, by implying that people can simply refuse the mass media messaging. My point is, that a century of increasing technology in opinion manipulation, and the mass media system getting louder all the time, create a system that the public won't resist for a majority. You might as well argue that North Koreans should just not agree with the government's propaganda.

Instead of referring to it as people being 'willing to foster' messages, it's recognizing the power of the mass media system to manipulate views overcomes people. Look at how effectively our whole national media system gets dismissed by tens of millions by yelling "fake news" at it loudly enough, making people think THEY don't accept lies, they refuse to listen to the 'legitimate' media. It gets a lot more effective than yelling 'fake news'.

Hi, Craig!

You're right in that our modern level of communication increases the sheer amount of content aimed at us. In recent years, too, the 'Madison Avenue' folks have sharpened their abilities to slip messages and ideas into our heads. [Ed.: Not all of the fruits of sociological research are used for benign purposes.] What's required is a redoubled effort to help us, as the American public, in proofing ourselves against manipulation.

A good starting point is for us to ask ourselves what, at bottom, we believe in, why we do so, and what the ramifications of those beliefs are.. [Ed.: Oxford comma, dude?] That process, carried out for many years, landed me eventually in a position I define as secular humanism.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

 

[Craig234]

There's today a whole industry of wingnut fake news producers. And basically there are three kinds: a) the ones that produce it purely for profit, there's money to be made from this, b) the ones that are purely ideological, usually backed by a government (see RT or Sputnik), and c) the ones that are ideological, but also does it for profit (i.e. the hybrids).

Imagine a China government-like power organizing the power of mass media, instead of the hodge-podge we have. Look at what Russia is able to do as small as they are, from far away, with our government trying to stop them - they reached many millions with millions of targeted messages. Ironically, apparently to build viewers, RT has some good content from good commentators that isn't propaganda.

 

[joluoto]

Imagine a China government-like power organizing the power of mass media, instead of the hodge-podge we have. Look at what Russia is able to do as small as they are, from far away, with our government trying to stop them - they reached many millions with millions of targeted messages. Ironically, apparently to build viewers, RT has some good content from good commentators that isn't propaganda.

Nothing on RT exists, that Moscow doesn't want to exist.

 

[AGENT J]

The future of Americans' freedoms is threatened by the powerful mass media systems.

When our country was founded, there were just 'people' talking and writing. There were issues with free speech being allowed or not and that's about it. It was a time of idealism about the power of 'rational man', who was making many discoveries in science.

Flash forward to today, and a century of developing ever-more effective opinion manipulation technologies, driven by advertising and used for politics.

Now we have over half of one party who believes an absurd lie that the election was stolen and tens of millions who can't understand facts about things like climate change or the Qanon insanity.

The public has pretty much shown is isn't able to be rational against the powerful advertising and propaganda systems in many if not most individuals. When there are billions of dollars to be made, the ability to create messages that mislead people is very powerful. Going forward, our country looks more like lab rats being led around than the rational citizens our founding fathers expected.

Of course, everyone things that's only a problem for others. Regardless, it's easy to see how we go from the current 1/3 nuts to 2/3, and the game is over, as the technology becomes ever-more loud and effective. And it's money driving the messaging - which results in controlling people for power. Who's left to complain - as if complaining would do any good - if 2/3 are indoctrinated?

"Free speech" has been weaponized. It's not now useful for random citizen to say a politician sucks, it's protecting mass media to greatly influence public opinion for wealthy interests.

Right now, it's still more 'ad hoc' - people like Rupert Murdoch and Sean Hannity making money by exploiting the technology. But there's every reason to expect it to become a more organized effort - think the Nazis or China. If you think people will resists, think about the supporters and opponents of 1/6 screaming at each other about who the traitors and who the patriots are.

If you think 'experts' will be heard more, think about how climate change science is not effectively heard despite countless experts. How badly Coronavirus experts have been heard by tens of millions. If anyone wanted to build support for some change to this - where would they be heard? The mass media are making the billions.

While I agree its sad that some or even many people can be duped its not new in general. one glaring example would have been cigarettes back in the day. Now we overcame that but we did it using medical facts, negligence lawsuits and health risks etc etc

How does one overcome free speech thats just dumb or even not true . . IF . . it actually isnt slander or directly harming anybody?

its not that I disagree its that I dont know what a suitable solution is besides education and people being smarter/better

 

[phoenix2020]

This reminded me of a memory from high school, one where some girl in my class was talking/ranting about how the science teachers were wrong, she didn't believe in Evolution because the Bible, her church told her Evolution couldn't have happened because God created everything. It was one of those moments that made me realize how easy it was to use religion as an excuse for ignorance.

I don't want to point the finger exclusively at religion which is an important part of people's lives. That said, it can be a gateway drug to conspiracy theorizing. People raised with a certain religion are often told to accept that religion on faith alone. Once that bar has been passed, there are any number of other things they can start accepting in faith... say.... massive election fraud? That Mexico will pay for the wall? That Hillary eats babies?

 

[phoenix2020]

Schools are quashing critical thinking skills and have supplanted it with CRT, which is racist and marxist.

Thoughts and prayers.

 

[Acadia]

Thoughts and prayers.

It's so cute that you ignore your Presidents saying this all the time.
Burn Loot Murder right back atcha.

 

[phoenix2020]

It's so cute that you ignore your Presidents saying this all the time.
Burn Loot Murder right back atcha.

Thoughts and prayers on what BLM is doing to you as well.

 

[Acadia]

Thoughts and prayers on what BLM is doing to you as well.

BLM isn't doing anything me, personally, but they are destroying black neighborhoods and have killed over 2 dozen blacks since the Summer of Rage, all while the BLM leaders live in luxurious, multiple homes in white neighborhoods.
So, big swing a miss there.
Thoughts and prayers for continued fiery, but mostly peaceful protests.

 

[AGENT J]

BLM isn't doing anything me, personally, but they are destroying black neighborhoods and have killed over 2 dozen blacks since the Summer of Rage, all while the BLM leaders live in luxurious, multiple homes in white neighborhoods.
So, big swing a miss there.
Thoughts and prayers for continued fiery, but mostly peaceful protests.

LMAO "BLM" did none of that

 

[Acadia]

LMAO "BLM" did none of that

More than 90% of the businesses destroyed in Ferguson, MO were owned by lower-economic minorities who saved their entire lives to own a small business.

 

[AGENT J]

More than 90% of the businesses destroyed in Ferguson, MO were owned by lower-economic minorities who saved their entire lives to own a small business.

Doesn't change the fact that "BLLM" did none of that LMAO

 

[Acadia]

Doesn't change the fact that "BLLM" did none of that LMAO

Gunshot victims in Minneapolis are up 250% since the same time last year. That has resulted in a lot of dead, mostly black individuals who would otherwise be alive today had the aftermath of George Floyd’s death not shaped policy.
When you value identity politics and virtue signaling over sound governmental decision-making. People who are ostensibly supposed to be helped end up getting hurt much worse.
BLM has destroyed cities, towns and neighborhoods across the country, while their leaders enjoy the fruits of the hundreds of millions in donations, which get laundered through Act Blue and Thousand Currents. There is zero evidence of ANY of that money being put back into devastated communities.

And I blame you, and those like you, who defend BLM, instead hold them to blame for the destruction and toll on human life they've ravaged and will continue to ravage.

 

[AGENT J]

Gunshot victims in Minneapolis are up 250% since the same time last year. That has resulted in a lot of dead, mostly black individuals who would otherwise be alive today had the aftermath of George Floyd’s death not shaped policy.
When you value identity politics and virtue signaling over sound governmental decision-making. People who are ostensibly supposed to be helped end up getting hurt much worse.
BLM has destroyed cities, towns and neighborhoods across the country, while their leaders enjoy the fruits of the hundreds of millions in donations, which get laundered through Act Blue and Thousand Currents. There is zero evidence of ANY of that money being put back into devastated communities.

And I blame you, and those like you, who defend BLM, instead hold them to blame for the destruction and toll on human life they've ravaged and will continue to ravage.

Hey look!!! another meaningless post that doesn't change the fact "BLM" didn't do what you claim LMAO

 

[Acadia]

Hey look!!! another meaningless post that doesn't change the fact "BLM" didn't do what you claim LMAO

Does the name Brittany Hill ring a bell? Seen her face on the tv or painted on the side of a building?

 

[AGENT J]

Does the name Brittany Hill ring a bell? Seen her face on the tv or painted on the side of a building?

annnnnd a 3rd post that doesn't change the fact "BLM" didn't do what you ignorantly or dishonestly claims.
3 strikes your out. Try again though its hiliairous. Maybe stomp your feet this time but honest, educated objective people wont be fooled since you have ZERO facts that make your claim true.

 

[Acadia]

annnnnd a 3rd post that doesn't change the fact "BLM" didn't do what you ignorantly or dishonestly claims.
3 strikes your out. Try again though its hiliairous. Maybe stomp your feet this time but honest, educated objective people wont be fooled since you have ZERO facts that make your claim true.

Clearly, Black Lives don't Matter to you.
BLM is the jackboot, enforcement arm of the Democrat party. One political party has always sought to divide the populace first maliciously (segregation) now benevolently (white saviors). Years from now the refrain will be that defund the police was a racist movement designed to exterminate young black males. Unfortunately the black homicide statistics will be the proof.
You will have been on the wrong side of history, which no doubt, will be repeated.

 

[AGENT J]

Clearly, Black Lives don't Matter to you.
ttfn

LMAO . . 0 for 4, this is fun!
Please in your next post, provided one fact that makes your false claim true . . one, thanks!

 

[Craig234]

Nothing on RT exists, that Moscow doesn't want to exist.

Perhaps, but in that case Moscow wants a lot of independent, good commentators who say what they want to say on RT.

 

[joluoto]

Perhaps, but in that case Moscow wants a lot of independent, good commentators who say what they want to say on RT.

I wouldn't call them independent. Moscow is happy as long as they say West Bad and US Bad, and not say Russia bad. If they stop saying that they're kicked off in a jiffy.

 

[Torus34]

I wouldn't call them independent. Moscow is happy as long as they say West Bad and US Bad, and not say Russia bad. If they stop saying that they're kicked off in a jiffy.

Would that be like someone on NewsMax saying that liberals/Democrats are good? ;-)

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

 

[Craig234]

I wouldn't call them independent. Moscow is happy as long as they say West Bad and US Bad, and not say Russia bad. If they stop saying that they're kicked off in a jiffy.

Wrong. Thom Hartmann and Chris Hedges are two of our best commentators, and they are quite independent. I think both are critical of Putin.

 

[Craig234]

Would that be like someone on NewsMax saying that liberals/Democrats are good? ;-)

No, NewsMax doesn't have good commentators like RT does.