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Can the pro gun folks help us prevent mass shootings in any way?

Can the pro gun folks help us prevent mass shootings in any way?

  • Yes, we can help

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • No, you'll only reduce mass shootings over my bullet ridden, bloody corpse

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • Other, specify below

    Votes: 4 40.0%

  • Total voters
    10

uptower

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There are a lot of purposes for "shoot" other than murder. That you are forced to constantly conflate "shoot" and "kill" and toss in descriptions of murders speaks to the weakness of your argument.

You speak of "kill" as if it is intrinsically negative. You equate it with murder. That is simply not true.

It is true a gun can be used for murder, and this is a function of its design.

It is also true that a car can be driven into a tree at 100mph, and this is a function of its design.

But not its purpose. And people need a license to drive a car. I say they should need one to use a gun. This will help ensure mor of the right people have them.
 

RF667799

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But not its purpose. And people need a license to drive a car. I say they should need one to use a gun. This will help ensure mor of the right people have them.

Doesn't address my post.

The bold isn't even true.
 

RF667799

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Don't be silly.

Of course not.

Are you going to address my posts with other than superficial dismissal, or are you done?
 

Chillfolks

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But not its purpose. And people need a license to drive a car. I say they should need one to use a gun. This will help ensure mor of the right people have them.
And like with a license to drive, if a gun license were to get suspended people would just carry anyway, A license to drive a car doesn’t necessarily do that good of a job making sure the right people drive, as proven by the daily traffic infractions or accidents ranging from minor to fatalities. That said I do support the idea of having a license requirement if you choose to carry a firearm off your personal property. The devil of course is in the details and requirements of obtaining that license.
 

Batcat

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You're phrasing you question in a very provocative manner.

"Anti-gun rights" lobby ?
You wouldn't call the pro gun lobby the "pro-mass shooting" lobby would you ?

The answer to your question is, of course, yes
Gun control can help prevent (or at least drastically reduce) mass shootings




Having gun control in just part of the country is like have a no pissing rule in part of a swimming pool
There can be no significant gun control unless it applies to the whole country and follows on from a repeal of the 2nd Amendment





QED

The only answer is to ban guns*

*With exemptions previously discussed.

Obviously you can ban guns. That doesn’t mean everybody will turn their guns in. However since guns are illegal honest people will not carry them in public for fear they would be arrested. Criminals will carry firearms and street crime will increase as armed predators will know their prey are unarmed. Nut cases who haven’t turned their weapons in will not have to pick a “gun free” zone anymore as a shooting gallery as everywhere will be a gun free zone.

Banning guns will increase crime and attempting to confiscate banned guns could lead to this nation splitting apart. Several states have strong secession movements at this time and many Americans do not trust their government enough to give up their right to own firearms. Our federal government at this moment is likely the most corrupt it has ever been.

If the Democrats succeed in their plan to allow the federal government to take over all election laws from the states, this nation will be ruled by one party. The Republican Party will be irrelevant. The Democrats can then pass anything and everything they wish including gun bans and confiscation and changing our nation into a socialist workers paradise. Of course when the happens the Union will break apart like a shattered dish. I can only hope and pray the split will be peaceful and not bloody.

If you don’t think that can happen just remember how fast the USSR broke apart.
 

uptower

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And like with a license to drive, if a gun license were to get suspended people would just carry anyway, A license to drive a car doesn’t necessarily do that good of a job making sure the right people drive, as proven by the daily traffic infractions or accidents ranging from minor to fatalities. That said I do support the idea of having a license requirement if you choose to carry a firearm off your personal property. The devil of course is in the details and requirements of obtaining that license.
Well very few laws are 'break proof' and no solution will be prefect. Just steps in the right direction seems common sense to me.
 

jonny5

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Can the pro gun folks help us prevent mass shootings in any way?

For example, mental health exams might've prevented both the Boulder super market shooting and the guy who killed all those Asian women. Both bought their guns shortly before they went on a rampage.

Longer waiting periods might've helped.

Is the pro gun crowd willing to do anything at all to reduce the problem?



.

Still waiting on an answer. What can we pro gun folks do to help prevent mass shootings that isnt about guns. Name one thing. You want mental exams long before someone buys a gun? OK. When and why? Once the govt deems someone dangerous then what? Prevent them buying a gun? Dont stop there. They shouldnt be able to buy a knife, a car, a bat, fly a plane etc. Anything that could be used to harm others.
 

Fabiusbile

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And in the United States, are there any statistics or studies that calculate how many cases where Amricans have protected themselves, their family, their home with firearms from criminals?
After all, in my opinion, this is the main argument of the supporters of weapons?
 

bluesmoke

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Do you see how bad the students treat the teachers? Go on YouTube and look up those videos, then see if you agree that arming teachers is a good idea.

So, depending on how bad they treat the teachers would meet with a greater likelihood of being shot by a gun-toting teacher? I think it would. Also, I think w/o carrying that gun, that shooting wouldn't happen. Which wouldn't be near as bad as whatever bad treatment was given the teacher. And, that open carry would invite the gun being taken by a student or whomever. And that it is totally idiotic to arm teachers or have a bunch of people running around open-carry, for similar reason, in public.
 

Rich2018

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Obviously you can ban guns. That doesn’t mean everybody will turn their guns in.

No, not everyone


However since guns are illegal honest people will not carry them in public for fear they would be arrested.

Correct


...criminals will carry firearms and street crime will increase...

Why will they be more likely to carry guns, when there's less guns out there to face AND guns get increasingly expensive as they become more and more rare ?
Think about it, are you saying there's less motivation to carry a gun now as criminals' victims are better armed ?


Banning guns will increase crime....

Or decrease it...you have absolutely no evidence to base that on


...and attempting to confiscate banned guns could lead to this nation splitting apart.

Stop listening to the likes of Alex Jones and try to base your assertion on EVIDENCE


Several states have strong secession movements at this time...

Really? Name ONE and give your evidence to support that



If the Democrats succeed in their plan to allow the federal government to take over all election laws from the states, this nation will be ruled by one party. The Republican Party will be irrelevant. The Democrats can then pass anything and everything they wish including gun bans and confiscation and changing our nation into a socialist workers paradise. Of course when the happens the Union will break apart like a shattered dish. I can only hope and pray the split will be peaceful and not bloody.

Well the Republican party might want to broaden its appeal and adopt some progressive policies. Take an anti-racist stance, stop spreading fear, be less xenophobic, care for the ordinary people by raising taxes on the rich, cutting military spending and investing in social policies like Medicare - stuff like that. You know, stuff that people might actually want/need.


If you don’t think that can happen just remember how fast the USSR broke apart.

You obviously don't know about the USSR - now that was an empire and there were REAL separatist movements in the Baltic Republics, The Ukraine, Belarus etc
 

TurtleDude

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Assumes facts not in evidence. The data shows that more guns = more shootings.
well that is a bald faced lie because the overall trend since 1993 is decreasing violent crime while there are at least 60 million more guns
 

TurtleDude

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Yes, definite paranoia there.
this is coming from someone who tries to cover every single gun thread on the front page with paranoid fear of others owning firearms?
 

brianpatrick

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The pro-gun folks can't do anything about it. The anti-gun folks can't do anything about it either.

Nothing will change until the idiots on both sides realize that we have a culture of violence and until we acknowledge that and start putting serious effort into changing our mindset, shootings will continue.

This is exactly right. There will be no mass gun grabbing ever. People will have to give them up willingly, or not find a lot of use for them in the future. In the past there was a real need for a ‘wild west’ attitude towards firearms, but that’s becoming less and less a part of the global reality. Conservatives will point to some crimes going up or dangerous situations that justify self protection with guns, but there’s are other ways to deal with those. There will always be specific events to point to, and some people will be unlucky and end up shot for no good reason. None of that is going to solve anything.
 

Rich2018

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this is coming from someone who tries to cover every single gun thread on the front page with paranoid fear of others owning firearms?

Not so much owning them, but using them to shoot others, and one day possibly me.
 

TurtleDude

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Not so much owning them, but using them to shoot others, and one day possibly me.
a rational response, if you are worried about being shot, is not trying to disarm the people LEAST likely to harm you (and perhaps turning them into those who MIGHT), but rather being skilled in self defense
 

MamboDervish

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well that is a bald faced lie because the overall trend since 1993 is decreasing violent crime while there are at least 60 million more guns
Read what I wrote - not what you want to argue with. I said nothing about crime. I said shootings. And the places that have more guns have more shootings. Shootings might include accidents, suicides, responses to domestic abuse, etc. Not necessarily things that would raise the crime statistics, though they would be included - but certainly the gunfire injury and fatality statistics.

Again - the data shows that more guns = more shootings !
 

Batcat

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No, not everyone




Correct




Why will they be more likely to carry guns, when there's less guns out there to face AND guns get increasingly expensive as they become more and more rare ?
Think about it, are you saying there's less motivation to carry a gun now as criminals' victims are better armed ?




Or decrease it...you have absolutely no evidence to base that on




Stop listening to the likes of Alex Jones and try to base your assertion on EVIDENCE








Well the Republican party might want to broaden its appeal and adopt some progressive policies. Take an anti-racist stance, stop spreading fear, be less xenophobic, care for the ordinary people by raising taxes on the rich, cutting military spending and investing in social policies like Medicare - stuff like that. You know, stuff that people might actually want/need.




You obviously don't know about the USSR - now that was an empire and there were REAL separatist movements in the Baltic Republics, The Ukraine, Belarus etc

Why will they be more likely to carry guns, when there's less guns out there to face AND guns get increasingly expensive as they become more and more rare ?
Think about it, are you saying there's less motivation to carry a gun now as criminals' victims are better armed?


There will be plenty of guns available and since honest people are not carrying weapons a cheap Saturday nite special will work just fine. Plenty people with carry permits pack weapons like 9mm Glocks that holds 17 rounds and one in the chamber. Today if a thug points a cheap gun at one of those the good guy might pull his Glock and say, “That‘s not a gun, boy. This is a gun.”

If there is a shortage of firearms for criminals smugglers will be happy to provide plenty.

***

You question my assertion that if guns are banned crime will increase. Read this summary or read the actual Harvard report at the second link.


WOULD BANNING FIREARMS REDUCE MURDER AND SUICIDE?
A REVIEW OF INTERNATIONAL AND SOME DOMESTIC EVIDENCE
DON B. KATES* AND GARY MAUSER**

The Republican Party needs to learn how to fight. I was disgusted with the Republican Party for years Especially when they ran RINOs like Romney. The Republican Party establishment was jumping in joy when Trump supposedly lost but if they continue to be wimpy, wimpy, wimpy the future of the Republican Party is bleak. The Dems will likely pass legislation that allows elections to be federally controlled and if so there will neve be another Republican President until the nations splits apart (and it will).


You ask for one state that has a secession movement And you want evidence. You definitely do have your liberal head buried in the sand. Tessa is one state. There are others.


1617906397150.png
 

Rich2018

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a rational response, if you are worried about being shot, is not trying to disarm the people LEAST likely to harm you (and perhaps turning them into those who MIGHT), but rather being skilled in self defense

How can we disarm the ones who seek to harm others, but not the ones who don't ?
 

TurtleDude

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How can we disarm the ones who seek to harm others, but not the ones who don't ?
easy-enforce the laws that make being criminal in possession a felony. I really don't believe your motivation is crime control. You spend way too much time trying to post on every thread on this forum concerning guns to suggest crime control is what motivates your posts. You clearly have a hatred of honest people being armed.
 

Rich2018

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There will be plenty of guns available and since honest people are not carrying weapons a cheap Saturday nite special will work just fine. Plenty people with carry permits pack weapons like 9mm Glocks that holds 17 rounds and one in the chamber. Today if a thug points a cheap gun at one of those the good guy might pull his Glock and say, “That‘s not a gun, boy. This is a gun.”

Why will there be more guns available? Answer is there won't be - guns will become more and more scarce and as such the price will rise
So you're making an argument for criminals to be better armed NOW. Why would their motivation increase if guns were banned
Are you actually saying that the more guns that citizens have, the less motivation there is for criminals to go around unarmed ?

You're not thinking this through


If there is a shortage of firearms for criminals smugglers will be happy to provide plenty.

And the price goes up
And don't forget, the vast majority of criminals are not wealthy

You question my assertion that if guns are banned crime will increase. Read this summary or read the actual Harvard report at the second link.

The purpose of gun control is not to reduce crime (though it will probably reduce it a little), it is to reduce shootings in general, and mass shootings in particular


The Republican Party needs to learn how to fight....

You mean physically like the Nazis used the SA to win the battle of the streets ?


I was disgusted with the Republican Party for years Especially when they ran RINOs like Romney. The Republican Party establishment was jumping in joy when Trump supposedly lost but if they continue to be wimpy, wimpy, wimpy the future of the Republican Party is bleak...

So you think Trump is the guy to lead the rioters to ultimate victory ?

Out of interest, what policies do RINOs like Mitt Romney support/or don't support that make them not real Republicans ?

What does the Republican party offer Americans aside from tax breaks for the rich, a really big military and a really big prison population ?


You ask for one state that has a secession movement And you want evidence. You definitely do have your liberal head buried in the sand. Tessa is one state. There are others.

Oh Jeez, do you know what a separatist movement is ?
Like: Independentisme Catala in Catalonia
The SNP in Scotland
ETA in the Basque region
The Mouvement souverainiste du Québec, in Canada

This groups have large popular support in elections....of the groups you've listed, what is the largest support in a poll or election, they've received ?
 

Rich2018

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easy-enforce the laws that make being criminal in possession a felony.

Easy you say
Strange how it's not been done huh ?
What about the guns owned by non-felons which are used to harm others ?

The recent shootings in Atlanta and Boulder were not done by felons were they ?


I really don't believe your motivation is crime control. You spend way too much time trying to post on every thread on this forum concerning guns to suggest crime control is what motivates your posts. You clearly have a hatred of honest people being armed.


Good, because it's not
The purpose of gun control is not to reduce crime (though it will probably reduce it a little), it is to reduce shootings in general, and mass shootings in particular.
 

Maccabee

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Can the pro gun folks help us prevent mass shootings in any way?

For example, mental health exams might've prevented both the Boulder super market shooting and the guy who killed all those Asian women. Both bought their guns shortly before they went on a rampage.

Longer waiting periods might've helped.

Is the pro gun crowd willing to do anything at all to reduce the problem?



.
I'm willing to support such legislation as long I'm still able to buy AR15s after the process.
 

Rich2018

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I'm willing to support such legislation as long I'm still able to buy AR15s after the process.

OK, you get your body cryogenically frozen, and you can wake up when the kingdom of heaven has arrived.
 
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