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Can Texas Secede from the U.S.?

There is no mechanism that allows a vote by the people to leave the union. The founders did not even trust the people to determine the President. Your logic is poor and your history is even poorer.

Did I claim there was a mechanism that allows for such a vote? No. Did I claim any Constitutional foundation for my position? No. So the dickiness of your response must reflect a flaw in your own personality. Good luck with that.
 
Didja happen to read this paragraph from your first reference? To wit:

Texas is the principal driver of the Southern economy, and oil is the primary driver of Texas. Texas alone was responsible for about 50 percent of the economic growth in the South in 2013 and 2012 (45 and 55 percent respectively). And the Texas economy is contributing about 20 percent of the growth for the US. With the shale revolution showing few signs of slowing, there may be nothing to worry about in the near-term. But the South and the US are vulnerable to any slowdown in the Texas economy.

What's more - and as I pointed out in so many words in the previous post - the Deep South has so far to go to catch up to the rest of the nation that it really doesn't take much (in relative terms) to make it seem as if there's been a great deal of growth. You can have all that growth, that shiny little object that right-wing media's using to get your attention - but it still doesn't change the fact that red states in general and the Deep South in particular have the lowest educational attainment rate, the highest teenage pregnancy rates, the highest bankruptcy rates, the lowest percentages of population covered by health insurance, the lowest life expectancies, the highest violent crime and homicide rates...

...Jack, the standard of living of the Deep South is the worst in the nation. I grew up there, remember? I know what it's like...and it doesn't come close to most of the rest of the nation.

You asked me to document the South's growth. I did so. The rest is irrelevant.
 
They had the same freedom. They could revoke the authority of the state and join their lives and property to another govt.

Remember what happened when West Virginia tried that? The Confederates tried to force them back into their "country".
 
You mean you Texans get to leave? As I indicated, I'm all for it. I'll help you secessionists pack. I do want you to take the rest of the old confederacy with you, however. But no reinstitution slavery! Otherwise we'll have to come down and beat your sorry asses again.

1st, i'm not a secessionist.

2nd ...don't pretend you'll do anything if violence breaks out...you're a talker...nothing less, nothing more

3rd...don't lie...you're not in favor of anyone seceding anywhere...
 
You think the colonists were right wing? They were rebels - by their very nature left of the center. The right wing were the loyalists who wanted to maintain the status quo.

I didn't say anything about left or right wing in reference to the FF, nor would I... I'm intelligent enough to understand the modern version of left/right is inapplicable.

it's enough to say they were Liberals...... better know today as classical liberals ( as opposed to modern liberalism)
 
" But is it actually legal for Texas to leave the United States?Simply put, the answer is no. Historical and legal precedents make it clear that Texas could not pull off a Texit — at least not legally.
“The legality of seceding is problematic,” said Eric McDaniel, associate professor of government at the University of Texas at Austin. “The Civil War played a very big role in establishing the power of the federal government and cementing that the federal government has the final say in these issues.”
Many historians believe that when the Confederacy surrendered at Appomattox in 1865, the idea of secession was also defeated, according to McDaniel. The Union’s victory set a precedent that states could not legally secede."
https://www.texastribune.org/2016/06/24/can-texas-legally-secede-united-states/

The question was whether or not Texas could secede from the union legally. I don't agree that an invasion and conquest settles the question...legally. I don't question for a moment that Texas could not withstand an invasion by the U.S. government.

But, where in the Constitution does it say the federal government has the right, the authority, to prevent a state from withdrawing? Where does it say that the U.S. is like the Mafia and once you join you can never leave?

Can a state legally, in your opinion, withdraw from the U.S.?

I don't know if it's legal or not (or constitutional) but I pray every day that they secede. It would be nice if they took Arizona, Alabama, Mississippi and North Carolina with them.

Hopefully President Clinton will laugh in their faces when their military bases and federal funds cease.
 
Again: If the Supreme Court says it is valid, then it is valid.

It's not valid. The founders replaced the AOC with the Constitution. The AOC was made null and void decades before the court ever ruled in Texas v. White. In fact, none of those men on the bench were even born yet when it was made null and void.

Are you in favor of Democracy, or not? Democracy cannot work if the losers react by trying to break up the country.

Do you have any idea how long people like yourself have been losing in this country? How long do you wish to live in a country that doesn't care what you think?

If you want change you vote for candidates who most closely share your view. If there are no candidates who share your view enough to suit you, then you try to form a new party whose candidates do share your view. Either way, if you lose you try again next election cycle. Some people never win, always because they cannot convince enough other people of the soundness of their views. Breaking up the best country there ever was is the least sound of all views, and hopefully enough people will never be too stupid to miss something so obvious.

Great idea. So exactly how does the libertarian party or any other party get past the rules made by the two main parties? Oh right, they don't.

Also, I love how you think some people should just be happy they will never get anywhere with their views. GG.
 
It's not valid. The founders replaced the AOC with the Constitution. The AOC was made null and void decades before the court ever ruled in Texas v. White. In fact, none of those men on the bench were even born yet when it was made null and void.



Do you have any idea how long people like yourself have been losing in this country? How long do you wish to live in a country that doesn't care what you think?



Great idea. So exactly how does the libertarian party or any other party get past the rules made by the two main parties? Oh right, they don't.

Also, I love how you think some people should just be happy they will never get anywhere with their views. GG.

Chase wrote that the original Union of the colonies had been made in reaction to some very real problems faced by the colonists. The first result of these circumstances was the creation of the Articles of Confederation which created a perpetual union between these states. The Constitution, when it was implemented, only strengthened and perfected this perpetual relationship.[SUP][16][/SUP] Chase wrote:

Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase​

The Union of the States never was a purely artificial and arbitrary relation. It began among the Colonies, and grew out of common origin, mutual sympathies, kindred principles, similar interests, and geographical relations. It was confirmed and strengthened by the necessities of war, and received definite form and character and sanction from the Articles of Confederation. By these, the Union was solemnly declared to 'be perpetual.' And when these Articles were found to be inadequate to the exigencies of the country, the Constitution was ordained 'to form a more perfect Union.' It is difficult to convey the idea of indissoluble unity more clearly than by these words. What can be indissoluble if a perpetual Union, made more perfect, is not?[SUP][7][/SUP]
After establishing the origin of the nation, Chase next addressed Texas' relationship to that Union. He rejected the notion that Texas had merely created a compact with the other states; rather, he said it had in fact incorporated itself into an already existing indissoluble political body.[SUP][16][/SUP] From the decision:
When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States.[SUP][7][/SUP]

Texas v. White - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White

Wikipedia


Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1869) was a significant case argued before the United States Supreme Court in 1869. The case involved a claim by the ...Background · ‎Arguments · ‎Decision · ‎Reaction
 
Chase wrote that the original Union of the colonies had been made in reaction to some very real problems faced by the colonists. The first result of these circumstances was the creation of the Articles of Confederation which created a perpetual union between these states. The Constitution, when it was implemented, only strengthened and perfected this perpetual relationship.[SUP][16][/SUP] Chase wrote:

Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase​

The Union of the States never was a purely artificial and arbitrary relation. It began among the Colonies, and grew out of common origin, mutual sympathies, kindred principles, similar interests, and geographical relations. It was confirmed and strengthened by the necessities of war, and received definite form and character and sanction from the Articles of Confederation. By these, the Union was solemnly declared to 'be perpetual.' And when these Articles were found to be inadequate to the exigencies of the country, the Constitution was ordained 'to form a more perfect Union.' It is difficult to convey the idea of indissoluble unity more clearly than by these words. What can be indissoluble if a perpetual Union, made more perfect, is not?[SUP][7][/SUP]
After establishing the origin of the nation, Chase next addressed Texas' relationship to that Union. He rejected the notion that Texas had merely created a compact with the other states; rather, he said it had in fact incorporated itself into an already existing indissoluble political body.[SUP][16][/SUP] From the decision:
When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States.[SUP][7][/SUP]

Texas v. White - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White

Wikipedia


Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1869) was a significant case argued before the United States Supreme Court in 1869. The case involved a claim by the ...Background · ‎Arguments · ‎Decision · ‎Reaction

His argument has no basis in the constitution nor could he have possibly cited any founder to support his argument. It's a mere justification to support a conclusion he made before he showed up that day.

He was also a complete ****ing moron if he really thought keeping together a land by force was more perfect. In fact, historically speaking allowing people to leave lead to better governing results for a country.
 
Since there is no mechanism in the Constitution to allow for it any secession is by definition illegal.
 
His argument has no basis in the constitution nor could he have possibly cited any founder to support his argument. It's a mere justification to support a conclusion he made before he showed up that day.

He was also a complete ****ing moron if he really thought keeping together a land by force was more perfect. In fact, historically speaking allowing people to leave lead to better governing results for a country.

Your complaint notwithstanding, his verdict is based on the words of the AoC and the Constitution. QED
 
Your complaint notwithstanding, his verdict is based on the words of the AoC and the Constitution. QED

He had no authority to look at the AOC nor is it reasonable to conclude on any historical or logical basis that a country is made more perfect by not allowing unhappy members to leave. Look at the country after the civil war and it becomes obvious that allowing the south to leave would united the country and likely avoided what we are dealing with today in terms of political divide.
 
He had no authority to look at the AOC nor is it reasonable to conclude on any historical or logical basis that a country is made more perfect by not allowing unhappy members to leave. Look at the country after the civil war and it becomes obvious that allowing the south to leave would united the country and likely avoided what we are dealing with today in terms of political divide.

I think you are wrong from front to back. The AoC is a founding document to be consulted whenever needed. The Civil War produced a just and laudable result.
 
I think you are wrong from front to back. The AoC is a founding document to be consulted whenever needed. The Civil War produced a just and laudable result.

Show me how the AOC was still standing law when Texas v. White happened. Hell, prove to me the AOC was standing law in 1790. It really doesn't matter what the AOC said or did since it was null and void, so frankly he had no good reason to look at it.

Why would you assume the terms of a null and void treaty was carried over? Why would you assume keeping people together by force had anything to do with a more perfect union? What was his historical basis to say nations are more perfect if unhappy members are forced to stay?
 
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Show me how the AOC was still standing law when Texas v. White happened. Hell, prove to me the AOC was standing law in 1790. It really doesn't matter what the AOC said or did since it was null and void, so frankly he had no good reason to look at it.

What makes you think the AoC ever became "null and void?"
 
Did I claim there was a mechanism that allows for such a vote? No. Did I claim any Constitutional foundation for my position? No. So the dickiness of your response must reflect a flaw in your own personality. Good luck with that.

Your claim certainly sounded like you thought it had some foundation. Regardless it is not something we should ever do. States were never meant to succeed.
 
Certainly the Constitution superseded the AoC but the AoC remains a founding document that can be cited wherever the Constitution is silent.

What would you think it can be cited for anything?
 
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