California To Secede From The Union? OK!

[X Factor]

Well, I should not do math in my head I guess, especially when in a hurry. I stand corrected.

Or maybe you didn't need to make the snide comment to begin with.

 

[AlbqOwl]

The electoral college allows people to win by a minority and call it a landslide, thus ignoring the will of the majority.

And that's just plain silly. Trump well knows he does not have a majority in the popular vote. He knows that he has work to do to win the confidence and trust of those who didn't vote for him. The electoral college worked exactly like it was supposed to by not allowing a very few highly populated areas be a tyranny of the majority disallowing any power to all the rest of the country. And now the only problem we have is with butt hurt, selfish, angry, petty people who refuse to give him that chance.

 

[Cephus]

Trump was "elected" by and large by the poor and stupid so...you should be thanking them

No, the stupid were on the left, voting mindlessly for the bitch in the pantsuit, and when they lost, they freaked out and started lighting things on fire.

 

[Redress]

Or maybe you didn't need to make the snide comment to begin with.

In this case, snide comments where required, and it turned out I was right.

And did you ever find those examples of what you where crying about? I really am curious to see those examples of people who used to think the EC was great, and now are against it. Come on, back up your claim!

 

[X Factor]

In this case, snide comments where required, and it turned out I was right.

Except...you weren't.

And did you ever find those examples of what you where crying about? I really am curious to see those examples of people who used to think the EC was great, and now are against it. Come on, back up your claim!

I can't figure out for what purpose. When I mentioned that there were people butthurt about the EC due to this election but also acknowledged that I would not expect you to see it or think so, you posted a pic of what appeared to me to be bails of hay. Are you denying that there are folks upset about the EC based on this election or not? This is the 2nd I've asked.

 

[Partsguy57]

Actually all States need to portion their electoral votes based on vote %. Anything else is just nullifying up to 49% of votes. That will "fix" the electoral college without any amendment needed. Of course then Trump would have lost big time so you won't want to change.

Lol you don't know that!! Lol lol. The campaigns were run on needing to win the Electoral College. And trump won convincing on that!! Fact!! Hillary ran under the same rules and lost!! Fact!! You or I have no idea how the popular vote would go as the campaigns were not run to win that way. For you to state otherwise is talking out you're behind. Wise up. Your person lost according to the same rules that have been in effect for over two centuries and they work! The election map proves this. If you pulled the votes from new York city and la County alone then hillary loses again and again the popular vote was not in play and the campaigns were not run with the popular vote in mind.

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

 

[Tucker Case]

Trump won the popular vote in about 90% of the counties across the entire country. I would call that a landslide.

Protip: geography =/= more people.

 

[Tucker Case]

So is this sort of a "change the rules until I get the outcome I want" sort of thing?

In the sense that the outcome I want is to minimize disenfranchisement (maximizing the amount of votes that actually matter), yes. If, by outcome, you mean in a specific election, then no.

 

[Tucker Case]

Possibly, but then again this is the sort of smarmy, apathetic, disconnected arrogance that helped Clinton lose the election.

No, Clinton lost the election because she didn't pander to idiots.

Hillary lost because she ran the worst campaign, because outside of New York City, LA, and Chicago, she didn't resonant enough with America on whole. She flubbed up, not the EC. The DNC in general flubbed this up huge. Sanders wouldn't have lost.

I preferred Sanders, and I think he would have won, but he also failed to resonate enough with southern minorities to win the primaries. It works both ways. You can't attack clinton for failing to resonate with the idiots racist dumb ****s while ignoring Sanders' failure to resonate with southern blacks.

 

[Tucker Case]

He knows that he has work to do to win the confidence and trust of those who didn't vote for him.

His cabinet choices prove that he does not know this.

And now the only problem we have is with butt hurt, selfish, angry, petty people who refuse to give him that chance.

This is the stupid **** that pisses me off. I firmly believe that this dumb **** is going to send this country into the ****ter. That he's going to bankrupt it and run away like a bitch leaving his "investors" holding the bag, like he does with all of his shady, self-serving business ventures.

I'm not going to sit back and "give him a chance" to do this. I will oppose him every step of the way.

 

[Moderate Right]

Protip: geography =/= more people.

The electoral college is in place so that California can't elect the president all by itself. There are 50 states and voters need a reason to go to the polls and vote in all 50 states. There would be no reason for them to waste their time if California could run roughshod over the rest of the country and decide the presidency. Rural voters also have the right to have their votes heard. There would be no reason for rural areas to vote if the cities were going to be deciding the elections. In a democracy everyone deserves to have their voices heard. We are the United 50 states of America and therefore all 50 states have the right to have their voices heard, no matter what their population is.

 

[Master PO]

The electoral college is in place so that California can't elect the president all by itself. There are 50 states and voters need a reason to go to the polls and vote in all 50 states. There would be no reason for them to waste their time if California could run roughshod over the rest of the country and decide the presidency. Rural voters also have the right to have their votes heard. There would be no reason for rural areas to vote if the cities were going to be deciding the elections. In a democracy everyone deserves to have their voices heard. We are the United 50 states of America and therefore all 50 states have the right to have their voices heard, no matter what their population is.

yes, all of the people and all the 50 states , that why the EC vote is a combination vote of 438 votes for the people, and 100 votes for the states.

 

[AlbqOwl]

His cabinet choices prove that he does not know this.



This is the stupid **** that pisses me off. I firmly believe that this dumb **** is going to send this country into the ****ter. That he's going to bankrupt it and run away like a bitch leaving his "investors" holding the bag, like he does with all of his shady, self-serving business ventures.

I'm not going to sit back and "give him a chance" to do this. I will oppose him every step of the way.

And what did you say to those who took the same attitude about Obama?

 

[chromium]

No, the stupid were on the left, voting mindlessly for the bitch in the pantsuit, and when they lost, they freaked out and started lighting things on fire.

I didn't say Hillary voters weren't stupid as well. That's you getting defensive as usual

Are you sincerely arguing that the deep south - the bible belt you so loath - and rural areas are the intellectual peak of this country? We are truly ****ed if that's true

Sorry that you don't understand your fellow Trumpites

 

[chromium]

Why is it a "tantrum" if it's from Trump but not from anyone else whose crying about it?

well, because it didn't even happen (Romney lost the popular vote). It's just Trump's version of premature you know what. A lot like blathering that he lost the PV due to illegals, with no evidence

 

[chromium]

Then they should vote to abolish it.

do you even realize that this would require 2/3 of the house and senate and 3/4 of the states? That has *nothing* to do with what i just said

 

[Tucker Case]

The electoral college is in place so that California can't elect the president all by itself.

rof California didn't exists in 1787, thus your statement cannot possibly be true.

The electoral college exists because the founders didn't trust direct democracy, plain and simple. The method of determining the number of electors that each state gets was put in place to maintain the institution of slavery.

Rural voters also have the right to have their votes heard.

What about rural voters in Illinois? Their votes are discarded in the EC system. Do they not matter?

 

[Tucker Case]

And what did you say to those who took the same attitude about Obama?

I said the same thing I would have said if Romney or McCain had won: you're wrong. He's not going to send the country into the shutter.

I didn't vote for Obama. This election marks the first time in my life I voted for a major party candidate. Ever. I voted third party in 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, and 2012.

That's because this was the first time in my life someone was running who I felt would run the country so poorly, so in competently that I had to vote against him in a symbolic gesture of opposition.

I'm certain that Trump will run this country in the same manner that he ran his business. That terrifies the **** out of me because the man managed to go bankrupt with casinos.

The most rigged in the owner's favor business that exists. Do you have any idea how hard it is to lose money as the house in a casino? And to do it four times! That's a major accomplishment. That's a truly impressive feat.

But he's a genius when it comes to branding. He could put a lump of **** in a box, slap his brand on it, and some ****ing idiot will buy it. Because, like most truly talented con artists, he understands how to separate suckers from their money.

And his rhetoric on the campaign trail was a pure masters course on branding. He got a bunch of people to buy that lump of **** in a box, and he's going to keep them happy by giving them new and improved lumps of **** (now with more corn!) every few months.

So, yes, I am taking the stance of actively opposing the grifter-in-chief.

 

[Lord of Planar]

It's Official: Clinton's Popular Vote Win Came Entirely From California


Outside California, Hillary Clinton lost the popular vote by 1.4 million to Donald Trump. (ZUMAPRESS.com/Newscom)


Outside California, Hillary Clinton lost the popular vote by 1.4 million to Donald Trump. (ZUMAPRESS.com/Newscom)
JOHN MERLINE12/16/2016


Democrats who are having trouble getting out of the first stage of grief — denial — aren't being helped by the fact that, now that all the votes are counted, Hillary Clinton's lead in the popular vote has topped 2.8 million, giving her a 48% share of the vote compared with Trumps 46%.

To those unschooled in how the United States selects presidents, this seems totally unfair. But look more closely at the numbers and you see that Clinton's advantage all but disappears.

As we noted in this space earlier, while Clinton's overall margin looks large and impressive, it is due to Clinton's huge margin of victory in one state — California — where she got a whopping 4.3 million more votes than Trump.

California is the only state, in fact, where Clinton's margin of victory was bigger than President Obama's in 2012 — 61.5% vs. Obama's 60%.

But California is the exception that proves the true genius of the Electoral College — which was designed to prevent regional candidates from dominating national elections.http://www.investors.com/politics/co...om-california/

California’s creepy weepy lefties need to come out of their quiet place set aside their coloring books secede from the union and appoint Hillary Rotten Clinton Queen for life and live in a socialist La-La land for ever after.

The above popular vote observation is WHY we have the Electoral College. America needs California selecting its Presidents like America needs a socialist lunatic in the White House.

With all the illegal residents voting, that's all they got?

Pathetic...

 

[Redress]

Except...you weren't.

Actually, I was. My numbers turned out to be correct.

I can't figure out for what purpose. When I mentioned that there were people butthurt about the EC due to this election but also acknowledged that I would not expect you to see it or think so, you posted a pic of what appeared to me to be bails of hay. Are you denying that there are folks upset about the EC based on this election or not? This is the 2nd I've asked.

Sometimes I almost feel bad about showing people how they are wrong. This is not one of those times. Let's look at what you really said. It is not what you are now claiming.

I'm sorry but some lefties are being extremely hypocritical about this. They sure supported the EC until their "blue wall" crumbled. If they really opposed the EC, doing it only after their candidate loses just looks like sour grapes, especially given how many of them reacted after the election.

Notice that your "butthurt" is over you imagining people changed their position. This is an important distinction, since that is what I challenged:

Can you show some examples of those "lefties" who have changed positions? Thanks in advance!

So what we have is in fact my challenging you to provide examples of those who have changed position. Now you are moving the goalpost to "opposed to the EC", away from having changed their opinion on the EC. And instead of providing examples, you continue to evolve your position and try and avoid what you actually said.

Now, on to the picture of the straw man, which was making fun of you making a straw man argument. Here is Tucker's post, which you did in fact straw man:

Many people who oppose the EC have done so for a lot longer than the past few months.

It's a travesty that a system that was corrupted to give the less-populated slave states disproportionate power in order to maintain the institution of slavery is still in place today.

Notice what he actually said, that the EC was corrupted to maintain slavery. Notice what he did not say, which you will try and twist into his argument:

Of course, the EC is racist and by implication, so is everyone who supports it. Is that the argument? Can you show me where you opposed the "blue wall"? Then I will absolutely believe that you opposed the EC based on more than just the fact that Trump won.

Tucker never said the EC was racist, nor where people who support it. That is what we call a straw man, creating an argument you can handle arguing against, instead of actually arguing what he said. Then you bring up the irrelevancy of the "blue wall", which not only has nothing to do with what he said, but is especially laughable in the Tucker is not a democrat. And for the record, here is Tucker, from 2008(Hint: that was before Trump even ran for president) stating his opposition to the EC: http://www.debatepolitics.com/archives/34068-heres-situation-you-3.html#post1057684425

For the record, I vehemently disagree with this assumption that created the electoral college. I do not believe that the peoplea redumb and should not be trusted to make the decisions on their own. I don't believe in the nanny-state, regardless of how long the ILLUSION OF FREEDOM has gone on.

And yes, I have been against the Electoral college since before 2000, whether you believe it or not.

And for the record, here is me from 2009 stating opposition to the EC:

The electoral college should be eliminated, but a third party won't be viable even then, until one better represents what people in this country want. If you are getting 2 % of the presidential vote, eliminating the electoral college just isn't going to help.

So do you have any actual legitimate arguments to make, based on things you can actually demonstrate are true?

 

[Tucker Case]

And for the record, here is Tucker, from 2008(Hint: that was before Trump even ran for president) stating his opposition to the EC: http://www.debatepolitics.com/archives/34068-heres-situation-you-3.html#post1057684425

I'm not kidding you, I think that is the very first thread I ever posted in here at DP. If it's not the very first, it's in the top five. Literally one of the first debates I ever got into here was me voicing my opposition to the EC.

Although I do have to admit, my opinion of people being inherently dumb has "evolved" quite a bit since then. Now I firmly believe that people are dumb and should not be trusted to make their own decisions. I think the EC with it's winner-take-all system exacerbates this, though. I could actually get behind the idea of making sure the Electors are intelligent people capable of making good decisions as an alternative to the dumb-****ery we have now.

 

[Ikari]

No, Clinton lost the election because she didn't pander to idiots.

And there we go. You run around calling the midwest "idiots" and wonder why your side lost.

I preferred Sanders, and I think he would have won, but he also failed to resonate enough with southern minorities to win the primaries. It works both ways. You can't attack clinton for failing to resonate with the idiots racist dumb ****s while ignoring Sanders' failure to resonate with southern blacks.

Well the DNC mostly had this in the bag for Clinton from the start, that's why he didn't do it.

You know what Sanders didn't do. Run around calling people stupid and then expecting them to vote for him. You're disconnected, so was Hillary. She too was arrogant, hateful, snobbish elitist who thought she had some rube beat and put nothing into the effort. If you cannot properly and fairly evaluate your own side and why you lost, then you're going to repeat the same failure next time.

Grow up, quit blaming everyone but your side, understand that you cannot go around hurling insults at half the country and think that you're going to waltz into the White House. Not going to happen, Hillary just demonstrated this.

 

[Ikari]

What about rural voters in Illinois? Their votes are discarded in the EC system. Do they not matter?

If you did it by district, their votes wouldn't be discarded. But...oh yeah...you don't like that because it doesn't produce the results you want.

 

[Redress]

And there we go. You run around calling the midwest "idiots" and wonder why your side lost.

He did not call the midwest idiots. Go back and read his post again. Why do so many people have to create arguments to argue against that people are not making?

 

[Ikari]

He did not call the midwest idiots. Go back and read his post again. Why do so many people have to create arguments to argue against that people are not making?

I mean, he's just throwing out the term. But the discussion is on the EC, and Hillary didn't capture the MidWest, which is why she lost. And he's saying that she lost because of idiots...ergo.

See, this is the blind egotism that Hillary also threw out there. Maybe he didn't mean to call the midwest idiots, but from context of discussion, it can certainly be taken that way. You cannot insult people and think they're going to support you.

Hillary lost because she couldn't connect with middle America, Hillary lost because she ran a **** campaign. E-mails, Russia, "idiots" blah blah blah. She was running against Trump, everything was surmountable. But she didn't perform. It's not the ECs fault it's not "idiots" fault, it's her fault. She did a **** job, she lost.

How many countries popularly elect their Head of Government? How many? I know of a few off hand in central/south America. The popular vote for Head of Government is not a good idea because it will focus down on the big cities and leave the rural communities out in the cold. You can see this already in America. Illinois, New York/New Jersey...dominated by their big cities. It's not a good choice on the federal level. We need something like the EC to keep the rest of the country relevant as well, and if you want to be President, you got to play in Peoria.

Trump won, Hillary lost, get over it, move on. There's a crap ton of work to do over the next 4 years to minimize damage, we can't be crying into our porridge because Hillary couldn't muster enough EC votes to beat Trump.