Bullying is becoming epidemic

[Catz Part Deux]

I find that hard to believe. most of these kids came from housing projects that were so rough that the cops wouldn't go there except for enmasse. I had kids that would miss weeks of class because they were serving 30, 60 or 90 day jail terms. "where's tyrone? He's in jail, coach"

8 of my clients committed homicides. Had several dozen who committed aggravated assaults. About the same number who committed aggravated robberies. You don't do 90 days in jail for homicide. You do 90 days in jail for car theft or minor drug sales. Those are minor, non-violent offenses on the relative scale of the population I worked with.

My clients were all committed gang members who'd been gang-banging for years. Tattoos, weapons, drug sales, multiple assaults, drive-by shootings, etc. In my state, the average juvenile offender would be adjudicated for 30 misdemeanors and 7 felonies, ON AVERAGE, before doing a day in a secure facility.

My favorite client served 7 years in prison for being an accessory to a double murder (he guarded the door with a sawed off shotgun while his friend killed two people). He's now out of prison, and has a wife and a couple of kids. I still keep in touch with him. His friend will be in prison for at least the next 30 years. I worked with him, as well.

Just living in the projects doesn't make a kid a violent gang member. It makes them difficult, but it doesn't make them the kind of kids I worked with.

18, 19, 20 and 21 year olds are hardly "kids"

Anyone under 25 is a kid in my book. If you see it otherwise, that's part of the problem. When I say kid, I don't mean it in a demeaning way. I mean someone who is not fully developed as a person yet, and who can be redirected into a positive lifestyle because they are capable of change. A "kid" is someone who isn't quite an adult yet, emotionally, and who still needs adult guidance and mentoring.

Are there offenders who aren't capable of change? Yes. Absolutely. But, they tend to be older, more engrained in criminal conduct, and most have severe antisocial personality disorder.

The average inner city kid who is attending school at 21 is there because HE WANTS TO BE THERE. That means he has something to lose, and you have leverage. It also means that unless you really bollox things up with him, he's going to try not to screw up. If he didn't want to be there, he'd be off selling drugs on a corner somewhere or prowling cars for stereos.

I don't mean to be harsh, Oscar, but a lot of teachers aren't trained in behavior management, and do things that escalate conflicts in the classroom. Your negative experience has led you to write this population off as a group that is going to victimize anyone that serves them. That's not the case. I work prefessionally these days with people who do the same work I did, all over the U.S. Most of us have worked with an extremely rough population with nothing to lose--for YEARS--and almost none of us have been victimized by them. It happens, but it is EXTREMELY rare.

 

[RosieS]

Agreed. I worked as a teacher in Liberty City, ya know...where they had the riots? My home had a rock thrown thru the window and was burgled in middle class suburbia while I was at school. I was safer in Liberty City where they knew me than in South Miami where they could not have cared less.

My kids could pick the desk lock in 30 seconds to get my car keys out when I accidently locked them in but never stole from me. I left my purse hanging on the chair all the time. If you treat them as trustworthy, guess what? They act trustworthy. Funny how that works.

I was never harmed nor ever harmed an inner city kid, tho' I did wade in and break up fights. The kids never once swung at me, even by mistake.

I'll remind you that this is where much of The First 48 is filmed and where bullets fly daily. The life expectancy of young men is less than 40 years of age. But the are not bad when they are kids, not by a long shot.

Regards from Rosie

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Dude! One of my first projects in my current job was in Oppalocka, what is now Miami Gardens, and Carol City. LOVED IT. A good friend of mine is chief in Miami Gardens.

 

[RosieS]

Gads, Catz, I'm jealous! No wonder you love it, I loved it too. I also taught at FIU...I have a Master's in Urban Ed. But you haven't lived until you've taught in Allapattah. Or at least at Edison High. <big grin>

Carol City. So bad, it's so good! Sweeeeeeeet!

I'd still be there if I weren't disabled.

Small world, girlfren.

MANY Regards from Rosie

 

[BDBoop]

So geting a beatdown in highschool is the same as rape?

When you're a kid - and did somebody say this is limited to high school? I HAVE been beaten, Rev; have you? Do you have any comparison for the shame and humiliation that accompanies the pain?

Also. I said battered women. Not raped, battered. Why did your mind go there.

Interesting thought, though. I'm sure if some kids' bullying takes on sexual overtones, or acts are forced, nobody is talking about it.

 

[BDBoop]

I don't recall anyone saying that. When my kid was having issues, I was there to comfort him. When things were getting worse, I told him to punch the little ah0le.

Your son was lucky. It was just one asshole, the one time.

 

[BDBoop]

In all seriousness, the best advice I was ever given about my kids came from a guy who ran an inner city gang intervention program: Listen more than you talk, and ask a lot of open-ended questions. Do it every single day, and keep on doing it. The best place to talk to your kid is in the car, when it's just the two of you. Just ask her questions about what she thinks/feels/sees/wants.

If you do this, when your kid gets to age 17, I guarantee that he/she will talk to you about stuff you never imagined hearing, and the teen years will not be nearly as traumatic as most people experience.

If a post could be the featured post of the day, this would be the one.

 

[BDBoop]

I will never forget; there was a Jewish family in our neighborhood. They had one son (as I recall) but I rarely saw him. As a 10 yo I would say hello whenever I saw him. One evening my dad came to get me from my friend's house. The guy next door was a resident at the hospital and came running out asking my dad to take him to the Green's home asap. As we pulled up to the curb the ambulance was taking Andy away. The light was on in the ambulance and I could see him. He had died. He hung himself with a belt in his closet. He was probably around 13 at the time. I was not raised to be prejudiced against anyone and it was quite an impact on my life to see that at such an early age. Suicides were very rare indeed in the 1960's but I think they were not talked about like they are now so I could be wrong.

That is so, so tragic.

I lived in a small town, so there were no neighborhoods, per se. Just houses on three or four streets. There were even the town kids and the farm kids. If anybody died, everybody knew it.

 

[Goshin]

I don't believe bullying is any worse now than it was 30 years ago. In most schools it is actually not as bad, as (except for some inner-city schools with gang problems) the level of violence is far lower than it was in the late 70's and early 80's. A lot of kids are graduating school at 18 and have never been in one single fight...ever.

That may actually be part of the problem. When I was 15, the ultimate solution to some A-hole who wouldn't shut his mouth or leave you alone was to kick his assets. One or two applications of this treatment usually caused the bully to seek easier prey elsewhere. If a kid punches some A-hole that won't take "leave me alone" for an answer, nowadays they call the cops and it's a freaking criminal case. We're raising a generation of ******s.

Well, maybe some of y'all are. Mine isn't. After putting up with some loudmouth a-hole's constant aggravation for half a year, he finally grabbed the punk and slung him across the room. In my day we didn't even call that a fight, but apparently it was some kind of big deal. :roll:

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

When you're a kid - and did somebody say this is limited to high school? I HAVE been beaten, Rev; have you? Do you have any comparison for the shame and humiliation that accompanies the pain?

Also. I said battered women. Not raped, battered. Why did your mind go there.

Interesting thought, though. I'm sure if some kids' bullying takes on sexual overtones, or acts are forced, nobody is talking about it.

I was on the iphone maybe i misread you.


But to answer your question i've given beatdowns and i've taken em. Part of growing up.

:shrug:


Maybe its not an epidemic of bullying but an epidemic of wusses we are raising.

 

[1069]

I think there have always been bullies.
Technology has just opened up new and ever more insidious ways for young people to torment one another- on the internet, on social networking sites, by cell phone and text message, etc.
Victims are not even safe in their own homes anymore; bullies are still able to reach them and hurt them even in places that used to be sacrosanct.
Of course, in many ways, they can only hurt you if you let them; you could always turn off the computer and pick up a book instead. Books will never hurt you.

One thing that people need to understand: as a parent, it's just as heartbreaking to find out your child is bullying as it is to find out your child is a victim of bullying. Maybe more so.
Often, parents are helpless to know how to combat this behavior, especially in teenagers.
Teenagers have their own lives, their own culture, from which adults are largely excluded.
When your child is the victim, at least they probably want help, and you can roll out the standard "Stand up for yourself, blah, blah, blah" advice.
What are you supposed to say when you learn that your child is a bully? For one thing, they're likely to deny it. Even if they admit to engaging in the acts themselves, they'll make it seem as if their behavior was justified (they may even believe this themselves).
What are you supposed to say to that?
"Quit being such an asshole"...?
"I don't like the person you are; become a different person"?

So much advice is directed to victims of bullying and to their parents, about how to support them.
Somebody ought to write advice for the parents of bullies, too.

 

[VaiT]

Little miss prissy pants cheerleader bitch-face who likes to pick on the not-so-popular kids doesn't matter. She's irrelevant. .

I'd most likely find said chick attractive. Just sayin'.

 

[StandUpChuck]

Your son was lucky. It was just one asshole, the one time.

Not at all. It was a group of boys with one ring leader, and it lasted all year. Why are you making assumptions? For years before that, it was the neighborhood kids. He has always been picked on, and he has never had an ounce of luck in this dept. I suggested all the "feel good bs," and once the principal told him to read a book to some kid who smacked him on the bus. The following day, I took the book to school, threw it on the principal's desk and told him my son wouldn't be reading to anyone. I spoke with the kids' mothers. I spoke with the kids. I threatened the kids. It continued. Then I told my son that one of the bully's last name rhymes with feces and to call him that. I told him to smack the one who looks like a muppet in the face. He never had to smack anyone. Apparently being empowered to stand up for himself was all he needed. Plus I think the other kids thought the feces name was pretty awesome. :nails

Now my son is on the road to cool-dom, and today he told me that he saw one of the neighborhood boys at school today cuddling a stuffed animal. He couldn't wait to tell the other kids. I sat him right down and told him under no circumstances is he to spread that around. :naughty He understood.

 

[VaiT]

I quit teaching because I choked a kid who assaulted me in my classroom.

You're a fukcing lunatic.

 

[VaiT]

All the Miami/Opa-locka/Carol City/Liberty City talk has me pumped for this weekend's Florida State-Miami duel.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Moderator's Warning:

No more personal attacks folks or there will be consequences.

 

[StandUpChuck]

One thing that people need to understand: as a parent, it's just as heartbreaking to find out your child is bullying as it is to find out your child is a victim of bullying. Maybe more so.
Often, parents are helpless to know how to combat this behavior, especially in teenagers.
Teenagers have their own lives, their own culture, from which adults are largely excluded.
When your child is the victim, at least they probably want help, and you can roll out the standard "Stand up for yourself, blah, blah, blah" advice.
What are you supposed to say when you learn that your child is a bully? For one thing, they're likely to deny it. Even if they admit to engaging in the acts themselves, they'll make it seem as if their behavior was justified (they may even believe this themselves).
What are you supposed to say to that?
"Quit being such an asshole"...?
"I don't like the person you are; become a different person"?

So much advice is directed to victims of bullying and to their parents, about how to support them.
Somebody ought to write advice for the parents of bullies, too.

Totally agree.

 

[BDBoop]

I told him to punch the little ah0le.

Why are you making assumptions?

See bolded, in first quote.

 

[hazlnut]

I don't really buy the hype that bullying is somehow worse now than it was in the past. This seems like another example of the media just latching onto something new that perplexes the average 55 year old person who nightly network news.

"Oh lordy look at what the kids are doing on the facebooks!"

I don't know that kids are different -- but the way we communicate has certainly changed dramatically -- and to the extent that a 'message' can be magnified and carried faster through texting and social media certainly creates a new outlet for the bully to feel powerful and for the 'mob mentality'.

Prior to cell phones, internet, Facebook, the bullies 'message' would dissipate and lose momentum as the group separates and goes home. Gossiping over the phone is a slow process compared to posting on Facebook or sending multiple texts. In today's communication model, the mob stays connected even when they're apart, however, it is the physical disconnect of the internet that makes it easier for the bully and his/her followers to launch a viscous attack. It's easier to type something that you might be inhibited to say out loud or in a public place.

 

[RosieS]

Shouldn't the consequences be the same as for other negative behavior? Bad grades means loss of privileges and no new ones. Bullying should mean the same. If a kid can't be trusted, a kid can't be trusted. That is especially so when a kid is around other kids.

I had a stepdaughter who bullied out of sheer frustration that her father remarried. What worked was finding out that the ones she thought were her friends would and did rat her out to me in a flash because at times she was nasty to them, too. Driving her to school, keeping her out of dances and other extra-curricular activities and assigning extra chores to while away her friendless time worked.

Plus she was so eager for an after school job when she did earn her freedom that she kept busy, productive and out of trouble from then on. A Dean's List student, eventually, who would not have been so left to her own devices.

Regards from Rosie

 

[StandUpChuck]

See bolded, in first quote.

And this was before that quote:

Absolutely. My son was picked on most of last year, and eventually I asked him when he was going to punch the ring leader in the face.

To be honest BDBoop, for someone trying to portray themselves as a champion for the meek and oppressed, I find your reaction to my son's near lifetime of being picked on cavalier and dismissive. You took the time to quote me to respond to my question, but you didn't have the heart to comment on what I revealed. I don't know who ignores something like that and continues with the conversation. :shrug: This is not a personal attack but rather an observation of the phoniness of some on the left. Let's call for nationwide compassion! We must do something! Yet when presented with a method with which you don't agree yet it worked, you had nothing to say other than a defense of something inconsequential. An innocent little boy was picked on for years, and all you cared about was how you looked in the discussion. That right there says it all IMO.

 

[StandUpChuck]

Shouldn't the consequences be the same as for other negative behavior? Bad grades means loss of privileges and no new ones. Bullying should mean the same. If a kid can't be trusted, a kid can't be trusted. That is especially so when a kid is around other kids.

I had a stepdaughter who bullied out of sheer frustration that her father remarried. What worked was finding out that the ones she thought were her friends would and did rat her out to me in a flash because at times she was nasty to them, too. Driving her to school, keeping her out of dances and other extra-curricular activities and assigning extra chores to while away her friendless time worked.

Plus she was so eager for an after school job when she did earn her freedom that she kept busy, productive and out of trouble from then on. A Dean's List student, eventually, who would not have been so left to her own devices.

Regards from Rosie

Not necessarily Rosie. Your stepdaughter was acting out in reaction to one situation. I'm glad she got her stuff together, but IME, you cannot punish certain kids into better behavior. The kids who are bullying aren't always experimenting with bad behavior. Most know right from wrong. They often need something positive in their lives to get them out of the dance of anger. I know I'm not saying it as well as Catz & Ten. They may see themselves as bully or bullied and chose the former to avoid the latter. Negative consequences mean nothing to them because they already see themselves as "bad." They do not necessarily care if a priviledge is removed. Well, maybe they care, but they will never let you know they care. And in response, you will keep ramping up the punishments until you "get through" to them. When in fact, they are interpreting that as you bullying them. And they will take it out on someone weaker. At some point you may get so frustrated that you give up because nothing seems to be working. But the failure isn't with the child or the parent. It's with the method. I truly believe given the choice, most people want to be good. Some times you have to back it up and almost do the opposite to get results.

 

[liblady]

It was accepted fact in our household that is he did not stick up for ourselves and got our ass beaten by a bully at school without defending ourselves, we were gonna get our asses whipped again when we got home. But if we fought back, my dad would come to bat for us against any repercussions.

Kids don't have that directive anymore. Now it's all this "nothing is solved with violence, take the high road, everyone's a winner" bull****. Stop pampering the kids and the kids will toughen up.

i always taught my kids not to take ANYTHING physically. but i also taught them they needed to be the kind of people who didn't hurt others. my daughter had to punch the next door bully in the nose when she was 4, and after he fell down in the gutter crying she realized her mom was right......and he never bothered her again. my son is a small guy, and had to defend himself once or twice........but he wasn't bullied.

 

[MaggieD]

Taxes are welfare is normally paid for. Plenty of people with children don't pay property taxes.

aye, one reason why lots of inner city schools are ****holes. the kids that attend come from homes where the parents are ****bags that don't pay taxes. therefore the school is underfunded.

Hellooooo??

Everybody lives somewhere. And wherever that 'somewhere' is -- somebody's paying property taxes. How elitist.

 

[OscarB63]

Hellooooo??

Everybody lives somewhere. And wherever that 'somewhere' is -- somebody's paying property taxes. How elitist.

only the people who own property pay property taxes. people living in govt subsidized housing don't pay property tax, and usually don't pay income tax.