Budget Deficit Jumps Nearly 17% in 2018 (1 Viewer)

[poweRob]

Obama took over in Feb 2009, so Q1 is half his problem.

2008 2009
Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4
-2.3 2.1 -2.1 -8.4 -4.4 -0.6 1.5 4.5

https://www.bea.gov/data/gdp/gross-domestic-product

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/114th-congress-2015-2016/reports/49958-ARRA.pdf

CBO says less than 1% effect.

the 2009 fiscal budget was laid out in 2008 by the bush administration. So no.

 

[JasperL]

The GOP did balance the budget in 1998. Obvisouly the best combo is GOP congress obstructing Democrat president. I dont how you can credit Democrats for anything when we added more debt under Obama than all Republican presidents combined.

That's pretty good. The GOP was in control of the House for the last six years for both Obama and Clinton. When deficits go down, you credit the GOP (during the Clinton years). When deficits go up, you blame Obama!

The big reason we 'balanced' the budget under Clinton were the big tax increases in 1993, which the GOP objected to, and brought in the Gingrich crowd, and who you credit for the balanced budget created from the tax rate increases that the GOP opposed!

 

[JasperL]

I asked what actions he took to reduce the deficit and you posted a debt chart. The reality is the deficit went down because revenue recovered normally and due to actions taken by the fed and govt (Democrats and Republicans), and also due to growth in spending cuts forced on Obama by the GOP congress in 2013. The President does not appropriate money, nor does he create wealth to tax.

Tax increases helped too - letting the Bush tax cuts expire on the upper level earners.

 

[jonny5]

the 2009 fiscal budget was laid out in 2008 by the bush administration. So no.

Budgets are set by congress (which was controlled by Democrats). The President does not sign. Actual spending authorizations are also passed by congress, some of which Obama signed:



Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2009 02/04/2009
H.R.1 - American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 02/17/2009
H.J.Res.38 - Making further continuing appropriations for fiscal year 2009, and for other purposes. 03/06/2009
H.R.1105 - Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009 03/11/2009
H.R.3435, Making supplemental appropriations for FY2009 for the Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Program
H.R.2346, Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2009

So yeah.

 

[JasperL]

Im not trying to vindicate the tax cut. There is no need. Getting to keep more of my money is all the vindication needed. However, as it related to deficit, revenue isnt the problem. The govt is getting basically the same amount it always does. The problem is always growth in spending.

First of all, there is no "the same amount it always does." Government receipts as a share of GDP have ranged from about 20% of GDP at the recent peak in 2000, to about 15.5% of GDP during the early Bush years (thanks to the Bush II tax cuts) and then below 15% during the great recession. At current GDP or $20T, each percent is $200 billion in revenue, so that 5% difference is 's a swing of a $trillion per year, or 30% of all revenues. The only purpose I can see for this talking point is to pretend that nothing we do on the tax side matters, because we get the same amount no matter what tax rates are. But that's just nonsense, and it's wrong, you can look at the data and confirm it.

As to the deficit, the math is simple: Revenue minus expenditures = surplus (deficit). If the GOP want to take tax increases off the table, that's fine, let's see $800 billion per year in spending cuts, and we'll see how the voters like it! Or let's just see half that - $400 billion. See how seniors like Medicare and SS cuts, the defense contractors like getting by with less money, poor rural people in W. Va when Medicaid and EBT and EITC are cut.

And we'll also see how the economy does when Keynesian stimulus of $400 billion or 2% of GDP is withdrawn from the economy. That's the dirty little secret no republican will ever talk about. Deficits are stimulus and running them up gooses the economy. It's not so much the tax cuts as the deficit spending that boosts GDP - almost 100% of the stimulus from tax cuts in the short term is just from higher deficits. That's another reason why the GOP wants to attack deficits when the Democrats are in power - it slows the economy, which they then blame on Democrats.

 

[Blue Dog]

Deficits only matter to the party that’s in the minority. Fiscal conservatives and deficit hawks find ways to “hibernate” when placed in power...

 

[Irwin Corey]

don't worry. the tax cuts will pay for themselves, and then some.

derp

Yeah, we've been hearing that from EVERY GOP administration since Reagan; hasn't happened yet!

What has happened the rich have gotten richer, jobs and the middle class have disappeared and there are more and more poor.

 

[jonny5]

Deficits only matter to the party that’s in the minority. Fiscal conservatives and deficit hawks find ways to “hibernate” when placed in power...

15 people already posted this.

 

[jonny5]

Yeah, we've been hearing that from EVERY GOP administration since Reagan; hasn't happened yet!

What has happened the rich have gotten richer, jobs and the middle class have disappeared and there are more and more poor.

How do you figure? The govt is collecting the same amount of taxes as always, whether the rates are high or low. In 2018 theyll collect about 18% of GDP, same as always. The rich are paying a larger share of taxes than ever. More people are paying no income tax. Wealth redistribution is massive. We're at full employment and there are 78 million people in the middle class, who earn between 20k and 100k.

 

[poweRob]

Budgets are set by congress (which was controlled by Democrats). The President does not sign. Actual spending authorizations are also passed by congress, some of which Obama signed:



Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2009 02/04/2009
H.R.1 - American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 02/17/2009
H.J.Res.38 - Making further continuing appropriations for fiscal year 2009, and for other purposes. 03/06/2009
H.R.1105 - Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009 03/11/2009
H.R.3435, Making supplemental appropriations for FY2009 for the Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Program
H.R.2346, Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2009

So yeah.

Been over this already. Budgets are proposed by presidents and that is the starting point of discussion on the budget. Even with modifications, that proposal shapes the budget that is passed.

 

[jonny5]

Been over this already. Budgets are proposed by presidents and that is the starting point of discussion on the budget. Even with modifications, that proposal shapes the budget that is passed.

Yeah, its a request. What actually passes only applies to congress who then passes appropriation which get signed by the President. You think Democrats in 2008 gave Bush what he asked for? Do you think when Obama took over in January of 2009, that democrats in congress adhered to what Bush wanted?

Here is what Dems said at the time.

Rep. McGovern: “mr. speaker, that for years we have had — we have been forced to accept the priorities of george bush and his republican colleagues who have controlled the congress. that is now changing. for nearly seven years we have watch as they have accumulated huge debt, historical debt. we have watched as they have chipped away at some of the most important programs that help some of the most desperate people in our country. the american people have had enough. that’s what the last election was about. they have had their chance, they have shown us their priorities, and the american people have rejected them. it is now time to create a budget that has a conscience, that responds to the needs of the struggling middle class in this country.”

https://www.democraticleader.gov/newsroom/house-debates-fy-2009-budget/

 

[poweRob]

Yeah, its a request. What actually passes only applies to congress who then passes appropriation which get signed by the President. You think Democrats in 2008 gave Bush what he asked for? Do you think when Obama took over in January of 2009, that democrats in congress adhered to what Bush wanted?

Here is what Dems said at the time.



https://www.democraticleader.gov/newsroom/house-debates-fy-2009-budget/

That's nice. And?

So I guess you need to give the entire democratic party credit then for fixing GW's mess and not just Obama.

 

[JasperL]

How do you figure? The govt is collecting the same amount of taxes as always, whether the rates are high or low. In 2018 theyll collect about 18% of GDP, same as always. The rich are paying a larger share of taxes than ever. More people are paying no income tax. Wealth redistribution is massive. We're at full employment and there are 78 million people in the middle class, who earn between 20k and 100k.

No, wrong, in 2018 revenues are projected to be 16.6% of GDP. The difference between that and the long term average of 18.3% is 1.7% of GDP or about $340 billion in revenue, about 44% of the projected deficit.

You want to pretend those percent or two differences are insignificant, but you're wrong.

 

[jonny5]

That's nice. And?

So I guess you need to give the entire democratic party credit then for fixing GW's mess and not just Obama.

No, as always I blame and credit everyone. Dems, GOP, Obama, Bush are all responsible for the actions the govt take. As are the citizens for electing and empowering them.

 

[Media_Truth]

And its too bad pets.com was a bust, terrorists murdered 3000 people, and Obama got elected in 2009 (where you see that BIG hole). But it happened and we are where we are. Revenues are normal, spending is up and heading up faster.

Normal? Trump has us heading towards a $1 Trillion dollar deficit. I don't call that normal. And your comments about a vibrant middle class - there is only 1 class that is vibrant right now - the RICH from the Trump tax breaks.



See that far left bar - that's who you want to steal from. You want to take away SS benefits that they've paid into all their life.

 

[Irwin Corey]

How do you figure? The govt is collecting the same amount of taxes as always, whether the rates are high or low. In 2018 theyll collect about 18% of GDP, same as always. The rich are paying a larger share of taxes than ever. More people are paying no income tax. Wealth redistribution is massive. We're at full employment and there are 78 million people in the middle class, who earn between 20k and 100k.

Your graph, from right leaning George Mason University, says nothing about your points other than taxes have held 18% of GDP. In fact it proves the rich are NOT paying a larger share of taxes than ever. If taxes have held 18% of GDP and the Top Marginal Rate has dropped from a high of 93% to as low as 33% it must be that the wealthy are paying a smaller percentage and the difference is being made up by everyone else. The middle class has gone from 61% of Americans to 50%. some have moved up, true, but America's ranks of poor have gone way up.

That's how "I" figure.

 

[Vern]

Yeah, its a request. What actually passes only applies to congress who then passes appropriation which get signed by the President. You think Democrats in 2008 gave Bush what he asked for? Do you think when Obama took over in January of 2009, that democrats in congress adhered to what Bush wanted?

First off jonny, dems voted for Bush's stimulus and Ryan needed the dems to pass the budget this year. So you need to stop substituting ideology for reality in your beliefs. Also as you spam up this thread defending Trump ballooning the deficit when he promised the opposite, I should remind you that you attacked President Obama for not promising to balance the budget

Bringing in more revenue that he can then spend on buying votes, not to reduce deficits, or pay off debt. So there you go, Obama has no interest in balancing the budget. And that is wrong, and nothing can be done about it except voting out congress in 2 years.

Just so you know, nobody of intelligence is interested in balancing the budget but one side continues to lie to you about it. So how do you rationalize that republicans constantly lie to you and are worse for the deficit than democrats?

 

[jonny5]

Normal? Trump has us heading towards a $1 Trillion dollar deficit. I don't call that normal. And your comments about a vibrant middle class - there is only 1 class that is vibrant right now - the RICH from the Trump tax breaks.



See that far left bar - that's who you want to steal from. You want to take away SS benefits that they've paid into all their life.

I said REVENUE is normal. And I never said VIBRANT. And I dont want to take away earned SS benefits. Pay the money back, and stop taking new enrollees.

 

[jonny5]

Your graph, from right leaning George Mason University, says nothing about your points other than taxes have held 18% of GDP. In fact it proves the rich are NOT paying a larger share of taxes than ever. If taxes have held 18% of GDP and the Top Marginal Rate has dropped from a high of 93% to as low as 33% it must be that the wealthy are paying a smaller percentage and the difference is being made up by everyone else. The middle class has gone from 61% of Americans to 50%. some have moved up, true, but America's ranks of poor have gone way up.

That's how "I" figure.

It says EVERYTHING. It shows that no matter what top tax rates are, the govt takes in the same amount of revenue. Because the rich keep paying more. The 99% are paying a smaller percentage and the difference is being made up by everyone else.

 

[Irwin Corey]

It says EVERYTHING. It shows that no matter what top tax rates are, the govt takes in the same amount of revenue. Because the rich keep paying more. The 99% are paying a smaller percentage and the difference is being made up by everyone else.

View attachment 67242626

View attachment 67242627

What you're really showing is that wealth has been distilled to fewer and fewer Americans and more and more have fallen into poverty.

 

[jonny5]

What you're really showing is that wealth has been distilled to fewer and fewer Americans and more and more have fallen into poverty.

Technically ALL income groups have grown, but yeah, the rich produce and earn more wealth. So what? How is that relevant to the deficit or revenue?

 

[year2late]

You guys didn't even wait for Obama's term to end before you started crediting Trump for the economy just because he was elected.

THEN you guys saddle Obama with his first two years of having to turn around the Great Bush Recession. So sure... let's do away with the economy under each president's first two years. :lol:

Not only did Bush leave Obama with a near depression....he kept much of the wars off the books,

It is easier to make the mess that Bush created than to undo it.

 

[Irwin Corey]

Technically ALL income groups have grown, but yeah, the rich produce and earn more wealth. So what? How is that relevant to the deficit or revenue?

The decrease from a high of 93% to a low of 33% is relevant.

 

[Conservative]

Time for the Dick Cheney lovers to drop in and use his line that only applies when Republicans are in charge... "DEFICITS DON'T MATTER!!!!!!" But that's all they talk about when Dems are running the show.

Budget Deficit Jumps Nearly 17% in 2018

The federal budget deficit swelled to $779 billion in fiscal year 2018, the Treasury Department said on Monday, driven in large part by a sharp decline in corporate tax revenues after the Trump tax cuts took effect.

The big revenue drop came on the business side. Corporate tax revenues have fallen by a third from a comparable period a year ago, a direct consequence of the tax law signed last year, which reduced the top corporate rate to 21 percent from 35 percent. For the full 2018 fiscal year, corporate tax receipts were nearly $205 billion. That figure is a drop from $297 billion in fiscal year 2017.​

Funny, I don't recall you being upset with the Obama trillion dollar deficits in 2009-2010-2011-2012 and the almost doubling of the debt of 10.6 that he inherited. Seems to me that the left always loves spending but probably is concerned that over 520 billion of the 2018 deficit isn't being spent on social programs but rather on the interest expense on previous Congressional spending and the 21 trillion dollar debt.

 

[Conservative]

Not only did Bush leave Obama with a near depression....he kept much of the wars off the books,

It is easier to make the mess that Bush created than to undo it.

is that right near depression? The recession ended in June 2009 4 months after he took office and with TARP recapitalizing the banks but the left doesn't want you to realize that but I have noticed that no one here has offered the legislation that Obama brought us out of recession, Wall Street Journal doesn't give him the credit you radicals want to give him

https://wallstreetpit.com/13300-what-ended-the-great-recession/

Now be like most good little radical robots and run from reality ignoring the link and the facts presented