Budget Deficit Jumps Nearly 17% in 2018 (1 Viewer)

[Fruityfact]

Oh and he also deflects and demands things when caught.

How do you think he will deflect on Trumps massive deficit in "economically booming times?" I'm assuming he's already started.

 

[Conservative]

How do you think he will deflect on Trumps massive deficit in "economically booming times?" I'm assuming he's already started.

The term massive deficit is coming from people like you who didn't say a word with real massive deficits and debt under Obama. Your basic concern is that the 520 billion in debt service which is part of the deficit wasn't used the way you wanted it used, to buy votes and create more people dependent. What you continue to show is how poorly informed and have very poor understanding of the budget and deficits, just like Vern

 

[Fruityfact]

The term massive deficit is coming from people like you who didn't say a word with real massive deficits and debt under Obama. Your basic concern is that the 520 billion in debt service which is part of the deficit wasn't used the way you wanted it used, to buy votes and create more people dependent. What you continue to show is how poorly informed and have very poor understanding of the budget and deficits, just like Vern

Ahh yes, the massive recession Bush inherited vs the tiny economic pullback that Obama was handed.
You acknowledge the debt service(citation for 500 billion?), but never ever acknowledge the pullback in revenues experience by Obama.
You make literally every excuse under the sun for Bush, but then always gloss over the biggest recession in most people's living memory.
You're intellectually bankrupt dude.

I already replied to the "muh obama deficit". Find a new slant.

 

[Conservative]

I already replied to the "muh obama deficit". Find a new slant.

I find it quite interesting that for some reason the fact that Obama takes off on January 21, 2009 and somehow inherits a worse recession that started December 2007 went all of 2008 and amazingly ended in June 2009 four months after Obama took office. Doesn't look to me like he was handed much of a recession that ended 4 months later long before his spending could even occur or if it did then the deficits for 2009 were his not Bush's, which is it?

 

[Mach]

When you cut tax rates, even when you reduce everyone's rate by exactly the same percentages those the pay the most will get a larger absolute amount. If you paid $100,000 and I paid $10,000 and we both got 5% cuts yours amounts to $5000 and my only $500; That still means you PAID $95,000 while I paid $9,500; you paid 91% of total tax revenue. Not a difficult concept.
And as mentioned above if you pay no income tax a reduction of ANY percentage is still zero. And if I recall correctly the bill also increased EITC which means SOME zero payers got MORE back.

That's not what I'm asking, but I can see why you may have misinterpreted it.

Again, why were the tax cuts targeted in such a way that they primarily affected corporations, who will do stock buybacks, who will enrich the biggest shareholders, etc., and not instead tax cuts targeted to middle/upper middle class. Republicans could have cut taxes primarily for the middle class, rather than primarily for corporations. He claimed that cutting taxes puts money back into people's hand to grow the economy. Were corporations hurting, and the middle class was doing great?

When you give that money to corporations, what's the multiplier on the economy vs if you give it to the middle/upper-middle class?

I'm intentionally not answering my own question, because I'm genuinely trying to discuss it.

 

[Mach]

Cutting taxes benefits the private sector as it puts more money into the hands of the consumers.

Still waiting for your answer. Aren't you always acting like you have a clue about the economy, and I ask one question, and you can't answer it?
You responded with a question instead of just typing an answer. Please try again.

So why did it go mostly to the wealthiest Americans and corporations and not primarily to the other 90%, the much larger consumer base?
Which has a greater multiplier effect on the economy, reduces income disparity, and benefits the most people in real terms?

 

[Conservative]

Still waiting for your answer. Aren't you always acting like you have a clue about the economy, and I ask one question, and you can't answer it?
You responded with a question instead of just typing an answer. Please try again.

Seems rather simple to me, the wealthy pay most of the income taxes in this country by far and thus are going to get a bigger cut when taxes are cut, why does that bother you so much for after all it is their money in the first place?

The question still stands how do you give an income tax cut to people who don't pay any Federal Income tax or what is the maximum about of cut a person paying say 5000 a year in taxes could get? Seems the maximum they could cut is $5000 and you would still be whining

 

[Mach]

Seems rather simple to me, the wealthy pay most of the income taxes in this country by far and thus are going to get a bigger cut when taxes are cut, why does that bother you so much for after all it is their money in the first place?

You didn't answer the question, for a second time.

The Trump tax cuts targeted specifically, in ****ing law, a huge array of cuts for corporations. No such dramatic array of cuts for the middle class.
Corporate tax rate form 35 to 21
standard deductions raised to 20%
eliminates corporate AMT
Permanent

That's a conscious choice to change those specific corporate tax laws. Lying and claiming that "because they earn more they necessarily get the bigger cut", is not seriously your response. No one is really that silly.

Why? Why not instead cut middle class in the same prorogation, INSTEAD of the corporate love?

It is hilarious to see you fumble a simple question on the topic you troll everyone on all day, every day. Keep acting like you don't understand it...because we know by doing so you're 100% full of beans on this stuff.


And you never answered the second party either. Which would have a greater multiplier?
Corporations getting X dollars back in tax reductions, or the middle class getting X dollars back in tax reductions?

 

[Conservative]

Still waiting for your answer. Aren't you always acting like you have a clue about the economy, and I ask one question, and you can't answer it?
You responded with a question instead of just typing an answer. Please try again.

Interesting article about taxes and what people pay so tell me what is the maximum amount of tax cut could a middle income taxpayer making 50,000 a year actually get back?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/most-americans-dont-want-or-need-a-tax-cut-2017-09-27

Today, most Americans aren’t clamoring for lower taxes, probably because most of us don’t pay very much in federal income taxes. Our tax burden has rarely been lower. The latest data from the Congressional Budget Office show that the 73 million households in the middle of the income distribution — those making between about $32,000 and about $140,000 — pay an average of just 3.4% of their income in federal income taxes.

Nearly half of Americans owe no federal income tax at all, but they do pay taxes: payroll taxes to fund Social Security and Medicare, tariffs, excise taxes, corporate taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, state and local income taxes, and so on. If they have a problem with taxes, it’s not with the federal income tax.

So let's see if I have this right someone who pays zero Federal Income tax should get what back in Federal Income tax cuts?

 

[Mach]

Interesting article about taxes and what people pay so tell me what is the maximum amount of tax cut could a middle income taxpayer making 50,000 a year actually get back?https://www.marketwatch.com/story/most-americans-dont-want-or-need-a-tax-cut-2017-09-27
So let's see if I have this right someone who pays zero Federal Income tax should get what back in Federal Income tax cuts?

So that's the third time you avoided answering an obviously easy to answer question. This time you post a link, and then ask another question.

I know your reputation is terrible on the forums, but I hate seeing you do this in real time. It's shameful. Why can you not just be reasonable...like a human being, and just ****ing answer the pointed questions a asked you, in respond to your claim?

(because your posts are nonsense is what has been so far evidenced).

 

[Conservative]

So that's the third time you avoided answering an obviously easy to answer question. This time you post a link, and then ask another question.

I know your reputation is terrible on the forums, but I hate seeing you do this in real time. It's shameful. Why can you not just be reasonable...like a human being, and just ****ing answer the pointed questions a asked you, in respond to your claim?

(because your posts are nonsense is what has been so far evidenced).

I answered your question, you don't like the answer, you are going to complain regardless of any tax cut going to the middle class as not being big enough even those who aren't paying any FIT. That is called welfare, not income tax cuts. My posts make you look like the person you truly are and I won't say it

 

[Mach]

I answered your question, you don't like the answer, you are going to complain regardless of any tax cut going to the middle class as not being big enough even those who aren't paying any FIT. That is called welfare, not income tax cuts. My posts make you look like the person you truly are and I won't say it

Stop lying, you didn't answer the simple questions I asked in response to your (stupid as ****) claim.

Keep trying though, maybe you need to sleep on it. Put an economics book under the pillow, I hear that helps.

 

[poweRob]

Whose history, yours? You don't define history actual results do. You blame Republicans for everything bad ignoring Democratic contributions, how partisan and out of touch with reality.

I have posted over and over again the following results which again you want to ignore

Debt by President

Reagan 1.7 trillion
GHW Bush 1.4 trillion
GW Bush 4.9 trillion

Total 8.0 trillion in 20 years

Clinton 1.4 trillion
Obama 9.3 trillion

Total 10.7 trillion in 16 years

How do you explain these numbers?? Answer, you don't, you ignore them

By observing the trends of a presidency rather than static numbers. Your static numbers foist upon Obama Bush's recession that Obama dug us out of. But you knew that. You always ignore the trends because they embarrass you and ruin your argument every time.

 

[Conservative]

By observing the trends of a presidency rather than static numbers. Your static numbers foist upon Obama Bush's recession that Obama dug us out of. But you knew that. You always ignore the trends because they embarrass you and ruin your argument every time.

Absolutely amazing how Obama did that buy just taking office and implementing and spending nothing, how did he do that? Did the water recede as well? Love those trends especially things like Consumer confidence and GDP growth now over 3% something Obama never did coming off a negative 2.7%. The left with its low expectations and low standards is on full display

 

[Conservative]

Stop lying, you didn't answer the simple questions I asked in response to your (stupid as ****) claim.

Keep trying though, maybe you need to sleep on it. Put an economics book under the pillow, I hear that helps.

Answered the question posed, you didn't like it , tough ****. Keep ignoring reality and promoting welfare.

 

[Mach]

Answered the question posed, you didn't like it , tough ****. Keep ignoring reality and promoting welfare.

You didn't answer it, please do answer it though, I mean, why so scared to answer a few question on something you ran your mouth about as if you knew what you were talking about?


What's worse, is to answer it isn't even admission you're wrong, even if you answer it truthfully. Republicans can be for lower corporate taxes at the expense of the middle class, there is no law against that. There is no true/false with respect to that. You simply have to admit they chose to give massive corporate cuts (as I showed you the top ones, but there are more), rather than giving it to the middle class.

And the second question was what are the multiplier effects of those dollars essentially given back to corporations, vs if they were given to the middle class in tax breaks?

 

[Conservative]

You didn't answer it, please do answer it though, I mean, why so scared to answer a few question on something you ran your mouth about as if you knew what you were talking about?


What's worse, is to answer it isn't even admission you're wrong, even if you answer it truthfully. Republicans can be for lower corporate taxes at the expense of the middle class, there is no law against that. There is no true/false with respect to that. You simply have to admit they chose to give massive corporate cuts (as I showed you the top ones, but there are more), rather than giving it to the middle class.

And the second question was what are the multiplier effects of those dollars essentially given back to corporations, vs if they were given to the middle class in tax breaks?

First of all the basic answer is I don't give a damn how much of ones personal income one gets to keep, why do you? The rich people pay the most in taxes therefore are going to get to keep more of what they earn, so what?

Multiplier effect? What the hell do you think those evil rich people do with their money bury it in the back yard? I gave you the post on taxes paid by the middle class, how much of a multiplier effect does 1500 tax cut have vs. say a 30,000 tax cut but more importantly why is the amount an issue and why do you care?

Money given back to corporations? What do corporations do with that money if not reinvest it in their employees, their business, their infrastructure, and give stock dividends to stock holders. Where did you get your education because it certainly wasn't in TX. Corporate taxes do exactly what? Didn't pay any attention at all to what many corporations did with their tax cut did you? They gave raises, bonuses, added to the 401K's, and increased insurance payments all lower their tax liabilities meaning less federal taxes which obviously bothers you.

So you believe that corporations paying more to the federal bureaucrats is money that will go to lowering the deficits and cutting spending? How naïve are you? I am waiting exactly for your definition of a middle class tax cut and how much that amounts to per taxpayer?

 

[Mach]

First owhyf all the basic answer is I don't give a damn how much of ones personal income one gets to keep, do you?

No one asked you what you care about.
And you ended with asking me why I care. Another cowardly dodge/question.

Multiplier effect? What the hell do you think those evil rich people do with their money bury it in the back yard? I gave you the post on taxes paid by the middle class, how much of a multiplier effect does 1500 tax cut have vs. say a 30,000 tax cut but more importantly why is the amount an issue and why do you care?

Why do I care, is asking me another question, it's not you answering.

Money given back to corporations? What do corporations do with that money if not reinvest it in their employees,

More questions. You're coming up short on answers again.

So you believe that corporations paying more to the federal bureaucrats is money that will go to lowering the deficits and cutting spending??

And you end with another irrelevant question. Posting a link is not answering it. You can quote a single line or two that directly answers the question, and link the source so I can look at it.
But a blind link?

What can I do to get you to answer the questions I asked you? So dishonest.

 

[Conservative]

No one asked you what you care about.
And you ended with asking me why I care. Another cowardly dodge/question.


Why do I care, is asking me another question, it's not you answering.


More questions. You're coming up short on answers again.



And you end with another irrelevant question. Posting a link is not answering it. You can quote a single line or two that directly answers the question, and link the source so I can look at it.
But a blind link?

What can I do to get you to answer the questions I asked you? So dishonest.

I answered your question, get a fourth grader to help you read and understand posts

 

[Mach]

I answered your question, get a fourth grader to help you read and understand posts

Poor Conservative, can't answer simply economics questions and has to insult me to cover for his own failings. I give you a shot every so often to see if you've changed your ways.
You failed again, just as predicted.

 

[Conservative]

Poor Conservative, can't answer simply economics questions and has to insult me to cover for his own failings. I give you a shot every so often to see if you've changed your ways.
You failed again, just as predicted.

Poor mach, cannot seem to understand the post which answered your questions, the effective rate on the middle class is about 3.4% so what is 3.45% of $50000 and what kind of multiplier affect would that generate if ALL the taxes paid were refunded? Is there any obligation to fund for our national defense and a truly necessary govt. certainly not 4 trillion dollars.

The failure is all yours as you buy rhetoric and ignore basic logic and common sense.

 

[Mach]

Poor mach, cannot seem to understand the post which answered your questions, the effective rate on the middle class is about 3.4% so what is 3.45% of $50000 and what kind of multiplier affect would that generate if ALL the taxes paid were refunded? Is there any obligation to fund for our national defense and a truly necessary govt. certainly not 4 trillion dollars. The failure is all yours as
you buy rhetoric and ignore basic logic and common sense.

More lies.



#1 Your middle class tax rate is false.
More like 10%. Middle class from Pew:

Pew defines the middle class as those earning between two-thirds and double the median household income.This means that the category of middle-income is made up of people making somewhere between $40,500 and $122,000. Those making less than $39,500 make up the lower-income bracket.

#2 The multiplier effect is for practical purposes, independent of the total amount being invested. That you refuse to even guess at the multiplier, is telling.

#3 You are missing the entire other side of the equation. Instead of corporate tax CUTS, there could have been additional taxes on the wealthiest.
Increased tax rate on $500+...another bracket at $1M+, another at $2M+, another at $10M+, etc. You know, progressive taxes.

And yes, those dollar amounts are quite significant. And yes, if given in any way to the broader economy, whether that's through a check to "everyone else", or via goods/services widely distributed and/or infrastructure (You know our roads are important too...not just tanks that never get used...right??)....


So your facts looks wrong, you've dodged again the multiplier difference between cutting corporate tax rates vs giving it (in some way/shape/form) to the <$200K crowd, and you forgot that instead of a corporate tax CUT, they could have added more appropriate progressiveness to the wealthiest American tax brackets.

What's gonna happen?
Corporations are mad at not being richer and all those dollars to sway Republican politicians was a waste, awww.
The wealthiest among us, me included, are a little less wealthy in the coming years. Instead of a yacht, I buy a yacht still because it's not that big of a difference and I'm already wealthy. Oops!
And everyone else, including the infrastructure of the nation, is better off.
And the cherry on top, because of the multiplier you are so scared of, the re-investment of all those dollars from the < $200K crowd back into our economy? Drives the economy greater than the stupid corporate tax cuts.

Where do you think they spend that money...the <$200K crowd? goods/services...it goes right back int the ****ing economy, and all those business owners get business from it to boot.

But keep on lying and showing your'e unable to handle even the most basic economic questions. I didn't throw some complex math problem at you, it was very layman's terms and general (because that's as far as I usually can go), all you had to do was be honest. But you just can't do it can you.

Republicans are typically just like you, 100% full of lies when it comes to the economy.

 

[Conservative]

More lies.
View attachment 67242781


#1 Your middle class tax rate is false.
More like 10%. Middle class from Pew:



#2 The multiplier effect is for practical purposes, independent of the total amount being invested. That you refuse to even guess at the multiplier, is telling.

#3 You are missing the entire other side of the equation. Instead of corporate tax CUTS, there could have been additional taxes on the wealthiest.
Increased tax rate on $500+...another bracket at $1M+, another at $2M+, another at $10M+, etc. You know, progressive taxes.

And yes, those dollar amounts are quite significant. And yes, if given in any way to the broader economy, whether that's through a check to "everyone else", or via goods/services widely distributed and/or infrastructure (You know our roads are important too...not just tanks that never get used...right??)....


So your facts looks wrong, you've dodged again the multiplier difference between cutting corporate tax rates vs giving it (in some way/shape/form) to the <$200K crowd, and you forgot that instead of a corporate tax CUT, they could have added more appropriate progressiveness to the wealthiest American tax brackets.

What's gonna happen?
Corporations are mad at not being richer and all those dollars to sway Republican politicians was a waste, awww.
The wealthiest among us, me included, are a little less wealthy in the coming years. Instead of a yacht, I buy a yacht still because it's not that big of a difference and I'm already wealthy. Oops!
And everyone else, including the infrastructure of the nation, is better off.
And the cherry on top, because of the multiplier you are so scared of, the re-investment of all those dollars from the < $200K crowd back into our economy? Drives the economy greater than the stupid corporate tax cuts.

Where do you think they spend that money...the <$200K crowd? goods/services...it goes right back int the ****ing economy, and all those business owners get business from it to boot.

But keep on lying and showing your'e unable to handle even the most basic economic questions. I didn't throw some complex math problem at you, it was very layman's terms and general (because that's as far as I usually can go), all you had to do was be honest. But you just can't do it can you.

Republicans are typically just like you, 100% full of lies when it comes to the economy.

Sorry for the slow response but just got back from that liberal utopia of CUBA where I saw people friendly as hell but begging for U.S. Dollars yet paying 50% of their income to the Cuban Govt. to provide all that free stuff you seem to believe exists. As long as someone else pays for what you want is all that matters.

Interesting how you take what we have here for granted and suggest you go to other countries and see how they live. Cuba remains in the 1950's with no money for infrastructure, very poor electrical grid and wiring, limited TV and people on the streets trying to sell their wares so they can get "free healthcare and education"

the grass is always greener on the other side and there is never going to be enough money to fund your liberal appetite. I have asked you over and over again how much of a tax cut should someone earning 50,000 a year pay since obviously it isn't enough even though you have no idea what that even means. Sorry but your so called economic excellence is nothing more than leftwing hocus pocus designed to divert from your own problems and hoping someone else pays for them

Not sure what your problem is but this question never gets answered how much should a rich person pay in Federal, State, and Local taxes(Percentage?) How much money are you going to get with those tax dollars, what is the govt. going to do with it, and how will those evil rich people react? Think their maids will benefit?

I am waiting for you and any other person with your ideology to offer solutions. You think raising taxes on the rich is the answer? What if it isn't? why should anyone vote for a Democrat in Tuesday's elections?

Interesting how it me and Republicans that lie whereas you always tell the truth. Liberal utopia doesn't exist except in your mind