Britain could end the EU

[Canell]

David Cameron's moves could make EU fall apart, says Herman Van Rompuy | World news | The Guardian

Comments anyone? arty

 

[Higgins86]

If the EU collasped because we left then too be honest it would show how fragile it was in the first place. That being said I dont believe that us leaving would end the EU

 

[Djoop]

Glad to see van Rompuys making the most of his 300K salary.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

David Cameron's moves could make EU fall apart, says Herman Van Rompuy | World news | The Guardian

Comments anyone? arty

Unfortunately it's not going to happen. Too many politicians will fight to their deaths to preserve the EU and the euro just to save face, but we can always dream...

 

[DDD]

I do not think so neither. I think EU has the potential to be as big and as united as USA. It is mostly Europeans that are in USA and made it so anyway. Europeans built something great in another continent once, how about now building another big great country in its homeland.

 

[PeteEU]

David Cameron's moves could make EU fall apart, says Herman Van Rompuy | World news | The Guardian

Comments anyone? arty

He is either an idiot.. most likely or he is playing a great game of poker.

Getting rid of the UK from the EU might be a good thing, and if this helps Cameron in his drive to leave.. then fine by me. I for one am very very tired of the crap and moaning coming from the UK... a bunch of leeches on the EU for decades because of their massive rebate.... good riddance.

But ending the EU? Hardly. The EU does not need the UK.. where as the UK certainly needs the EU and the free market.. and that WILL go away if the UK leaves. Dont expect Norway/Switzerland type access. It will be fun watching the Conservatives squirm and die off when they realize that development funding for Wales and Scotland now has to come from England.. and that prices will skyrocket on food since the UK has to import over 50% of foods from abroad. And then there is the only thing keeping the UK afloat.. the City of London... watch that poof fast when the banks and financial companies move to Frankfurt or Paris.

 

[paris]

I do not think so neither. I think EU has the potential to be as big and as united as USA. It is mostly Europeans that are in USA and made it so anyway. Europeans built something great in another continent once, how about now building another big great country in its homeland.

I have heard many times that it was wrong to include eastern European countries in the EU, and that it would have been best to stay a small club of rich western European countries. But the more I hear the opinions of people like you, the more I'm convinced it was the right thing to do. Thanks.

 

[Canell]

Unfortunately it's not going to happen.

I say, this would be the end of the EU as we know it. It will be transformed in a new Union (hopefully, a confederation) with a new currency.
Although, generally speaking, Britain leaving the EU will not be a big deal. They have joined in 1978 and are not in the Eurozone, so it will be much easier than Greece leaving the EU. I don't know why Rompuy whines about it.

 

[Rainman05]

Van Roumpoy is a moron. Anything he says is to be taken the same way as a clown's performance. Nothing he said ever came true. His latest "hits" were:

-Spain will not need a bailout!
-We have finally turned the corner (in relation to the crisis)
-Greece has managed to dig itself out

And if you keep on waiting, he will keep on coming out with more inconsistent, factually baseless comments.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

I say, this would be the end of the EU as we know it. It will be transformed in a new Union (hopefully, a confederation) with a new currency.
Although, generally speaking, Britain leaving the EU will not be a big deal. They have joined in 1978 and are not in the Eurozone, so it will be much easier than Greece leaving the EU. I don't know why Rompuy whines about it.

I can get along with a loose group of BFFs who declare they'll have each other's back and want to have good trade with each other, but I am wholeheartedly against the bloated manipulative organization it's become. I'm extra super duper against the euro currency. Just because your'e BFFs doesn't mean you have to share a bank account.

 

[donsutherland1]

IMO, Mr. Van Rompuy is just the latest to offer a prediction of the EU's imminent demise. The debris of similar forecasts driven by the debt crisis is already quite high.

Europe's nations are committed to the EU. The EU will not fall apart anytime soon.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- a bunch of leeches on the EU for decades because of their massive rebate.... good riddance.

Of course the UK has a right to complain about our payments into the EU budget, France made us pay through the nose to join and is likely to ask us to pay through the nose to leave but in the meantime, we pay a huge contribution to the EU budget. Seems more like the EU leeches off our economy.

--The EU does not need the UK..

Granted.

-- where as the UK certainly needs the EU and the free market.. and that WILL go away if the UK leaves. Dont expect Norway/Switzerland type access.

Like a lover scorned eh? Retribution all the way and you think the pain will only be on the UK? We may import a lot from the EU but that also means the EU gets a lot out of doing business with us. I don't think the EU will follow your plan and bite it's own nose off to scorn us. The EU needs to keep British business - farting in our face means less exports to the UK.

--And then there is the only thing keeping the UK afloat.. the City of London... watch that poof fast when the banks and financial companies move to Frankfurt or Paris.

Funny that, the City of London keeps us afloat you say? The city of London financial services sector contributes 9.4% to the UK economy. If we depend on that 10% (being generous to you) then god save us but I think the other 90% of the UK GDP has more to do with keeping us afloat.

In 2011, financial and insurance services contributed £125.4 billion in gross value added
(GVA) to the UK economy, 9.4% of the UK’s total GVA. London accounted for 45.8% of the
total financial and insurance sector GVA in the UK in 2009. The sector’s contribution to UK
jobs is around 3.6%. Trade in financial services makes up a substantial proportion of the
UK’s trade surplus in services. In 2010-11 the banking sector alone contributed £21.0 billion
to UK tax receipts in corporation tax, income tax and national insurance.

Parliament Briefing Papers - 2011

 

[DDD]

I have heard many times that it was wrong to include eastern European countries in the EU, and that it would have been best to stay a small club of rich western European countries. But the more I hear the opinions of people like you, the more I'm convinced it was the right thing to do. Thanks.

You are very much welcome. Dardania is not included in EU yet though. Waiting for some formalities still. But we know what a good idea is

 

[DDD]

Van Roumpoy is a moron. Anything he says is to be taken the same way as a clown's performance. Nothing he said ever came true. His latest "hits" were:

-Spain will not need a bailout!
-We have finally turned the corner (in relation to the crisis)
-Greece has managed to dig itself out

And if you keep on waiting, he will keep on coming out with more inconsistent, factually baseless comments.

There's always a doomsday specialist in every great nation. Wonder who would the USA counterpart be?

 

[Rainman05]

There's always a doomsday specialist in every great nation. Wonder who would the USA counterpart be?

The EU is not a nation.

 

[DDD]

The EU is not a nation.

Not yet.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- We may import a lot from the EU but that also means the EU gets a lot out of doing business with us. I don't think the EU will follow your plan and bite it's own nose off to scorn us. The EU needs to keep British business - farting in our face means less exports to the UK --

Mr Van Rompuy, who is President of the European Council, said a British exit would cause immense damage to Europe, hurting both Britain and its EU partners. It would be like seeing a "friend walk off into the desert".

--snip--
In contrast with Mr Van Rompuy's position, former EU Commission president Jacques Delors said he could envisage the UK having a looser relationship with the EU, with a new free trade agreement, or as a "privileged partner".

--snip--
"They could be offered a different form of partnership." Link

Seems two major players and architects of Europe's future agree that kicking the UK if it leaves is not going to do anyone any good. On the other hand, Jacques Delors may have opened the doors wide to a UK exit and into a mutual partnership which would be good for both Europe and the UK.

 

[jschie]

If Britain should leave the EU, it wouldn´t matter the rest of the EU.

It did not matter the Euro-EU as the British kept their British Pounds too.

 

[gunner]

The EU will cope just fine if the UK decided to leave. The trouble with anything 'EU' is those in favour, europhiles, are glaringly unable to offer a coherent argument for the UK to remain. The present financial crisis, admittedly caused by America and the City of London financial sectors, has highlighted the weaknesses in the EU framework. To remain looks more and more unappealing to the layman.

Has the debate (if it can actually be called such a thing) been hijacked by the majority Right wing press? Most probably. But, where is the counter argument for staying? The most prominent retort is "over trade". Depending on where you sit will depend on what predictions and stats you follow. I feel there is little 'firm evidence' either way. Economics (as a discipline) is best guess and predictions so there has to be more to the debate, than economics alone.

This article helps fill some of the holes

http://www.openeurope.org.uk/Content/Documents/Pdfs/2012EUTrade.pdf

Paul

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- This article helps fill some of the holes

http://www.openeurope.org.uk/Content/Documents/Pdfs/2012EUTrade.pdf

Paul

Good article. Even here in the article there are arguments for a special relationship that could work for both the UK and EU. Those countries that wish for greater integration will always want to take that option and the UK (for one) will continue to argue against - which causes confusion and consternation for those who do not understand the UK position.

A new type of EU membership for the UK
• In order to justify continuing commitment to the EU and avoid being driven by the electorate
inexorably towards the exit door, Britain needs to carve out a new model for EU cooperation,
remaining part of the customs union and Single Market in goods and services but substantially
reducing the non-trade EU involvement and costs whenever possible.

The article calls this "free-riding" - the bit that PeteEU gets so upset about - but what has to be understood is that (quite possibly) the UK electorate has justifiable concerns about being in the centre of an integration project. The EU is better for having the UK in, it will survive without the UK but things can't go on as now with us vetoing majority decisions. A trade off is highly likely - we get our new relationship and the EU gets the green light on federation without a UK stopping every sign of progress.

 

[Ben K.]

Good article. Even here in the article there are arguments for a special relationship that could work for both the UK and EU. Those countries that wish for greater integration will always want to take that option and the UK (for one) will continue to argue against - which causes confusion and consternation for those who do not understand the UK position.



The article calls this "free-riding" - the bit that PeteEU gets so upset about - but what has to be understood is that (quite possibly) the UK electorate has justifiable concerns about being in the centre of an integration project. The EU is better for having the UK in, it will survive without the UK but things can't go on as now with us vetoing majority decisions. A trade off is highly likely - we get our new relationship and the EU gets the green light on federation without a UK stopping every sign of progress.

The problem is that you present the UK as one thing and the rest of the EU as a monolithic entity. Surely every member nation is entitled a special relationship in that case but then what is the EU?

I have no time for threats against those who wish no further part in the project, but I also have no time for those playing halfway - that just isnt sustainable.

 

[Peter Grimm]

You see, Britain is no longer sovereign, it is a "member state."

 

[PeteEU]

The problem is that you present the UK as one thing and the rest of the EU as a monolithic entity. Surely every member nation is entitled a special relationship in that case but then what is the EU?

I have no time for threats against those who wish no further part in the project, but I also have no time for those playing halfway - that just isnt sustainable.

Exactly.. the UK wants all the benifits of the EU but non of the negatives nor payments. That is simply not right. Why should the EU members allow the UK access to the market in the EU on similar terms after they pissed on us by leaving? It makes no sense. You dont let your ex-husband have sex with you after a divorce or live in your house or use your credit card or eat your food...

 

[Infinite Chaos]

The problem is that you present the UK as one thing and the rest of the EU as a monolithic entity. Surely every member nation is entitled a special relationship in that case but then what is the EU?

Well, the situation is that one member state represents quite a market currently to the rest of the EU; that member also has a veto and a large rebate which causes disharmony with other members. Of course every member is entitled to a special relationship but most seem hell bent on throwing away their constitutional sovereignty in which case you will have special rights as regions or states within a federation. We want a special relationship as a joint partner and it is up to each member state to argue the rights of its own citizens. You may think your rights are best served by an EU - I think my rights are best served by my national government.

I have no time for threats against those who wish no further part in the project, but I also have no time for those playing halfway - that just isnt sustainable.

I agree, this situation should never have arisen if we'd been properly informed by our own politicians when the argument to join the EEC was made. As it is, we citizens have a right to argue our countries case. We may not be richer or as rich for it - but then sometimes that's the price of independence.

Exactly.. the UK wants all the benifits of the EU but non of the negatives nor payments. That is simply not right.

Monsieur Delors seems to think we can if it's arranged correctly, that may be the price of your getting rid of our veto and our rebate.

Why should the EU members allow the UK access to the market in the EU on similar terms after they pissed on us by leaving? It makes no sense.

France (De Gaulle) pissed on us for helping liberate France, then pissed on us to prevent us being involved right at the start, pissed on us when we did join at great cost and Monsieur Hollande would like us to pay heavily for leaving.

Is that not enough for you?

As to the sense - we want access to European markets, you make huge sales to us. It's called "trade." The EU already negotiates trade agreements with other nations like Canada, Brazil, India etc, why would we be any different?

You dont let your ex-husband have sex with you after a divorce or live in your house or use your credit card or eat your food...

I don't want to have sex with you Pete, I want to conduct business with you. That's the heart of the problem, you guys have an emotional involvement in the idea of an integrated / federal Europe - most Brits want an economic involvement.

 

[gunner]

The problem is that you present the UK as one thing and the rest of the EU as a monolithic entity. Surely every member nation is entitled a special relationship in that case but then what is the EU?

I have no time for threats against those who wish no further part in the project, but I also have no time for those playing halfway - that just isnt sustainable.

Exactly.. the UK wants all the benifits of the EU but non of the negatives nor payments. That is simply not right. Why should the EU members allow the UK access to the market in the EU on similar terms after they pissed on us by leaving? It makes no sense. You dont let your ex-husband have sex with you after a divorce or live in your house or use your credit card or eat your food...

Ben K never said, or inferred, anything of the sort. The UK position (at present) looks to be unsustainable due to her wanting less and less of EU regulation, not what you suggest. For the sceptics, it has always been about trade and nothing else. They have at least been consistent on that point alone. But I don't see anywhere, any member state offering to pay more? Each and Evey member state negotiates their respective terms, in the interests of their sovereign state.

If nothing else, the present financial crisis has totally shot a hole in the ability of the EU single currency to handle such a financial crisis. The obvious lack of integration, IMO, is probably the main reason. The UK is simply occupying the most peripheral position, within a club or 'winners and losers'. Without further integration (with or without the UK) the inability of the EU to act decisively, and as one, will remain weak.

Paul