Brexit and Trump Parallels

[SailaWay]

the stock markets are saying NO to harm to the UK.. they are showing the big harm is to germany and the euro nations

 

[whataboutbob]

Hving your goods and people cross borders seemlessly should not be overlooked. If the US was 57 countries instead of states, we'd be a mess...and, yes, many of those states would resemble Africa.

Having been to Africa, you could not be more mistaken. You could take the most depressed part of the US and it is still far beyond what most Africans have available to them.

Part of the problem and concerns they have is that goods and, more importantly, people have that freedom. That too cannot be overlooked.

That said, trade with the UK is not going to slow down much, if at all. They have a couple years to get trade agreements in place. The UK is the fifth largest economy in the world. I think the doom and gloomers are simply trying to put forth fear in order to scare other EU members into staying.

 

[whataboutbob]

We'll see. I predict a ten year recession in the UK. It's not like they are a powerhouse anymore. Hell, they may have had more to gain by staying than meets the eye.

Ten year recession? I suppose that is possible given that the EU has been so anemic of late, but freedom from the EU will let the UK thrive faster than the bloated EU. So I doubt there is validity to a ten year recession in the UK.

 

[blaxshep]

Ten year recession? I suppose that is possible given that the EU has been so anemic of late, but freedom from the EU will let the UK thrive faster than the bloated EU. So I doubt there is validity to a ten year recession in the UK.

Unless they elect Obama :lamo

 

[calamity]

Ten year recession? I suppose that is possible given that the EU has been so anemic of late, but freedom from the EU will let the UK thrive faster than the bloated EU. So I doubt there is validity to a ten year recession in the UK.

Brexit's broken promises: Health care, immigration and the economy - Jun. 27, 2016

Consider this: Since the results of the vote became known early Friday, the pound has crashed 12% against the U.S. dollar to its lowest level in decades, U.K. bank stocks have collapsed, and growth forecasts for the British economy have been slashed.

Companies are putting investments on hold, and warning of lower profits.

 

[Cardinal]

Having been to Africa, you could not be more mistaken. You could take the most depressed part of the US and it is still far beyond what most Africans have available to them.

Part of the problem and concerns they have is that goods and, more importantly, people have that freedom. That too cannot be overlooked.

That said, trade with the UK is not going to slow down much, if at all. They have a couple years to get trade agreements in place. The UK is the fifth largest economy in the world. I think the doom and gloomers are simply trying to put forth fear in order to scare other EU members into staying.

They have a couple years to get trade agreements with EVERYONE in place. Two years is nothing. And the reason the UK is the fifth largest economy is because the world was doing its trade with the EU through London (there are separate reasons for this, of course). The world will still want to do business with the EU, and with the UK out of the EU international businesses will simply toss London aside, to say nothing of the industry and banks that will flee England. The belief that England will continue to do well demands that factors that existed before the Brexit vote are still actually there.

I was debating with an English woman who voted for leave and her belief that England will do well was posited in the fact that England was doing well under the old system. She seems genuinely unaware that anything just changed, and the thousand point drop in the DOW is just a minor, temporary setback and a "full recovery" will be seen because that's what markets do. It's really sad -- the people who voted to leave took a situation they were pissed off about and decided to break their nation in response. As well as, of course, everyone else's economy.

 

[blaxshep]

They have a couple years to get trade agreements with EVERYONE in place. Two years is nothing. And the reason the UK is the fifth largest economy is because the world was doing its trade with the EU through London (there are separate reasons for this, of course). The world will still want to do business with the EU, and with the UK out of the EU international businesses will simply toss London aside, to say nothing of the industry and banks that will flee England. The belief that England will continue to do well demands that factors that existed before the Brexit vote are still actually there.

I was debating with an English woman who voted for leave and her belief that England will do well was posited in the fact that England was doing well under the old system. She seems genuinely unaware that anything just changed, and the thousand point drop in the DOW is just a minor, temporary setback and a "full recovery" will be seen because that's what markets do. It's really sad -- the people who voted to leave took a situation they were pissed off about and decided to break their nation in response. As well as, of course, everyone else's economy.

Liberal dribble. England is the 5th largest economy, while the EU is a crumbling disaster like any other liberal utopia it will run out of other people's money. There is a reason why the EU economy is dropping twice as fast as England's.

 

[LowDown]

My grandma is not a Trumpette who cant seem to grasp the idea of why a republican form of government is better than a full democratic one, you on the other hand....

Re-read my post again and get back to me.

By the way, I don't support Trump.

 

[Cardinal]

Liberal dribble. England is the 5th largest economy, while the EU is a crumbling disaster like any other liberal utopia it will run out of other people's money. There is a reason why the EU economy is dropping twice as fast as England's.

My response to your post is the post you quoted and whose content you completely ignored just so that you could provide us with that derp gem.

 

[LowDown]

52% voted for Brexit with 75% turnout. That's not exactly a groundswell of democracy. :roll:

You are confident that the 25% who didn't vote were in favor of Remain? That's a stretch. And a 75% turnout is a BIG TURNOUT.

If one is a toff just looking for an excuse to dismiss the democratic process out of hand, well, then one would be a jerk.

Faced with the opportunity to recognize their errors and mend their ways the elites instead chose to dig in their heels, bang on their high chairs, and scream like little babies. Such is politics in the 21st Century. It's not the 21st Century I dreamed of, that's for certain.

 

[blaxshep]

My response to your post is the post you quoted and whose content you completely ignored just so that you could provide us with that derp gem.

How can any of us survive without liberals to hold our hands? :boohoo:

 

[blaxshep]

You are confident that the 25% who didn't vote were in favor of Remain? That's a stretch. And a 75% turnout is a BIG TURNOUT.

If one is a toff just looking for an excuse to dismiss the democratic process out of hand, well, then one would be a jerk.

Faced with the opportunity to recognize their errors and mend their ways the elites instead chose to dig in their heels, bang on their high chairs, and scream like little babies. Such is politics in the 21st Century. It's not the 21st Century I dreamed of, that's for certain.

There are liberals already calling for a revote. I suppose they should just revote until the liberals get their way.

 

[sanman]

 

[blaxshep]

What has changed since 1975, when the first British referendum on EU membership took place, should be obvious. EU member-states, following the economic integration achieved in the 1990s, have lost most of their economic sovereignty ––if not all of it, in case they are also members of the Eurozone. It is clear that if a country does not control even its own currency it can hardly be called economically sovereign, as it is at the mercy of the bureaucrats controlling the European Central Bank, who in turn work at the behest of transnational corporations. As the examples of Greece and Cyprus clearly showed, the Eurozone elites can at any moment financially strangle any members that do not obey their instructions by simply turning off the liquidity tap. Even more so when these countries, in fact, do not control even their fiscal policies and have to obey the catastrophic austerity policies imposed ‘from above’. That is the policies Eurozone members have to follow in case they cannot improve their competitiveness through alternative means (e.g. investment on research and development and high technology industries) while at the same time they are also pushed, directly or indirectly, to privatize their social wealth.

However, a country with no economic sovereignty does not enjoy also any national sovereignty––setting aside the disorienting distinction between power and sovereignty that Eurofans make,[10] as if it is possible for any country within the Eurozone to implement different economic policies from those imposed by the Euro-elites! It is in this sense that nation-states have only a formal existence today, given that their national sovereignty has withered away within the EU. A clear indication of this is the fact that, according to several studies on the matter, at least 65% of domestic legislation of EU member states has its origin in Brussels. Thus, as a recent ‘definitive study’ on the British case study showed (a country which in fact is much less dependent on the EU than most other member countries), “64.7 per cent of the laws introduced in the UK since 1993 either originated from the European Union (EU) or are deemed to be EU influenced by the House of Commons Library”.

Thus, as a British analyst aptly described the loss of sovereignty of EU members within the framework of neoliberal globalization:


“This is the crux of the matter, namely the sovereign right of European nations to form their own policies for their own people and expect other states to do the same within sovereign borders…The Euro-project is also a study in the implementation of a Neo-Liberal Regime which benefits the corporations and which has seen small businesses vaporize from the streets. Gone is the butcher, gone is the baker, gone is the greengrocer selling local produce and in come the Big Spaces which offer fabulous GM goods smothered and charged with chemicals, deep-frozen meat products made in Vietnam, and Japan and Peru and Nigeria, washed with ammonia, compressed into blocks and frozen for years before being marketed as 100% Prime British Beef!”

Brexit, Globalization and the Bankruptcy of the Globalist ?Left? | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

 

[Cardinal]

I appreciate the Trump camp trying to present itself as horrifying as humanly possible.

 

[sanman]

I appreciate the Trump camp trying to present itself as horrifying as humanly possible.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with what she said. These are things which were fine to say in previous decades, but all of a sudden they've now become verboten. It's disgusting. The Greatest Generation have been replaced by the weakest, trashiest generation.

 

[Cardinal]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with what she said. These are things which were fine to say in previous decades, but all of a sudden they've now become verboten. It's disgusting. The Greatest Generation have been replaced by the weakest, trashiest generation.

Actually, those things were always verboten. Prior to the Trump campaign our national moral conscience would have forbidden the discussion of barring people for their religion, blatantly demonizing an entire people based on their national heritage, or the outright condemnation for the choice to put a black female abolitionist on our currency. Now we're having those discussions, because hatred and fear are in.

 

[beerftw]

Actually, those things were always verboten. Prior to the Trump campaign our national moral conscience would have forbidden the discussion of barring people for their religion, blatantly demonizing an entire people based on their national heritage, or the outright condemnation for the choice to put a black female abolitionist on our currency. Now we're having those discussions, because hatred and fear are in.

Umm you need to review americas history, we attacked catholics for being catholic, Even treated them so bad black people never complained because their bad treatment looked like paradise by comparison. When we did not attack catholics it was black people, after the 2nd gen kkk made catholics and jews deemed less than human, the third gen made black people as less than human.

Our entire nations history has been based off attacking people over race or religion, catholics were deemed subhuman even during the founding fathers day. Heck our current law still allows us to ban immigration from many country or countries we see fit, and was used under carter.

 

[Cardinal]

Umm you need to review americas history, we attacked catholics for being catholic, Even treated them so bad black people never complained because their bad treatment looked like paradise by comparison. When we did not attack catholics it was black people, after the 2nd gen kkk made catholics and jews deemed less than human, the third gen made black people as less than human.

Our entire nations history has been based off attacking people over race or religion, catholics were deemed subhuman even during the founding fathers day. Heck our current law still allows us to ban immigration from many country or countries we see fit, and was used under carter.

I'm sorry, I was imprecise. I meant that up until the last year we had eventually agreed to a certain moral understanding. Obviously our history is rife with awfulness which we have slowly spent two hundred years very slowly overcoming. By succumbing to Trump's demagoguery we are setting our advancement back a significant number of years.

 

[jimbo]

52% voted for Brexit with 75% turnout. That's not exactly a groundswell of democracy. :roll:

Beats the crap out of 48% didn't vote for Brexit/

 

[beerftw]

I'm sorry, I was imprecise. I meant that up until the last year we had eventually agreed to a certain moral understanding. Obviously our history is rife with awfulness which we have slowly spent two hundred years very slowly overcoming. By succumbing to Trump's demagoguery we are setting our advancement back a significant number of years.

We are not going back a number of years except in how we adress it. Politicians have been politically correct, and avoided anything offensivefor the most part, but people do not change.

An example was how romney was constantly attacked for being mormon and therefore unfit to be president, just in the last election religion was constantly used by the left. In 08 race and the accusation obama was muslim was used by the right, so race and religion were major tools used.

The only thing trump did different was he stopped sugar coating it and using excuses to hide what it is, he is very blatent, and does not care if he offends someone.

 

[Tigerace117]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with what she said. These are things which were fine to say in previous decades, but all of a sudden they've now become verboten. It's disgusting. The Greatest Generation have been replaced by the weakest, trashiest generation.

It was fine to call people ethnic slurs in the past too. That's not exactly something to be proud of.

 

[BitterPill]

Re-read my post again and get back to me.

By the way, I don't support Trump.

I am curious about your title. Does it posit Trump will break-up the US if elected?

 

[LowDown]

I am curious about your title. Does it posit Trump will break-up the US if elected?

No, only that Brexit and Trump both represent a serious break from the status quo beyond which the future is a hell of uncertainty.

Hillary, who now is at war with 30% of the Bill or Rights, and many of whose supporters are at war with democracy, on the other hand, represents a different kind of hell, the hell of the slow, sickening slide into the authoritarian nightmare that has swallowed Venezuela and so many other nations.

I'm not of the opinion that one sort of hell is better than another.

 

[Andalublue]

The Howl Against Democracy



The parallel with the #NeverTrump people is striking.

Well, if it's fair to ignore the majority if the brilliant minds of the elite think it best then it's certainly also fair to ignore the rights of the minority if, in our own wisdom, we deem the minority to be an arrogant self important double dealing bunch of self serving toffs. So it's rather surprising to find the elite so quick to trash the traditions of orderly democracy since that's the only thing saving them from crowds of irate citizens with pitchforks.

The only parallel I can think of between Brexit and Trump is that they both use patent and proven lies to mislead and manipulate the ill-educated and disillusioned. :shrug: