Brexit and Trump Parallels

[LowDown]

The only parallel I can think of between Brexit and Trump is that they both use patent and proven lies to mislead and manipulate the ill-educated and disillusioned. :shrug:

I can't think of any politician or group that doesn't do that these days. Certainly the fear mongering, the divisive name calling, the class warfare, the blackwomangaylesbiantransabortion card playing is pronounced in the Hillary campaign. And they have declared open war on at least 2, maybe three articles of the Bill of Rights.

At the end of the day I'd rather end up with the people who aren't trying to strip me of my civil rights. If we lose those the slide down to Venezuela status becomes inexorable.

 

[whataboutbob]

They have a couple years to get trade agreements with EVERYONE in place. Two years is nothing. And the reason the UK is the fifth largest economy is because the world was doing its trade with the EU through London (there are separate reasons for this, of course). The world will still want to do business with the EU, and with the UK out of the EU international businesses will simply toss London aside, to say nothing of the industry and banks that will flee England. The belief that England will continue to do well demands that factors that existed before the Brexit vote are still actually there.

I was debating with an English woman who voted for leave and her belief that England will do well was posited in the fact that England was doing well under the old system. She seems genuinely unaware that anything just changed, and the thousand point drop in the DOW is just a minor, temporary setback and a "full recovery" will be seen because that's what markets do. It's really sad -- the people who voted to leave took a situation they were pissed off about and decided to break their nation in response. As well as, of course, everyone else's economy.

That is simply untrue. What other banking system are they going to go through? Switzerland is the most obvious choice, but they are also another that may consider bailing from the EU. There is a reason that the UK markets have been more stable than those of Germany and France. The markets know who the actual losers are in this deal. If you think the world is going to stop trading with the UK, then you may want to brush up on how markets work.

 

[whataboutbob]

Brexit's broken promises: Health care, immigration and the economy - Jun. 27, 2016

yet as of today, the FTSE is back where it was prior to the vote results being released. While the pound is still down, that will tend to help British exports. I will read your link as soon as I get a chance. Just responding to the quoted portion for now.

 

[Cardinal]

That is simply untrue. What other banking system are they going to go through? Switzerland is the most obvious choice, but they are also another that may consider bailing from the EU. There is a reason that the UK markets have been more stable than those of Germany and France. The markets know who the actual losers are in this deal. If you think the world is going to stop trading with the UK, then you may want to brush up on how markets work.

That is the general nature of the crisis: the viability of the EU itself. However, presuming that the EU doesn't disintegrate, the EU as a whole is an infinitely more attractive market than England on its own. There is a reason that businesses are alarmed by Brexit...

The survey by the Institute of Directors (IoD), which found that the majority of businesses believed Brexit was bad for them, comes amid fears that investors will wipe billions more pounds off share values on Monday morning, and signs that the pound, which hit a 30-year low on Friday, was coming under further pressure from trading in Asia. Sterling was down more than 1% as the Asian markets opened late on Sunday.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...further-post-brexit-losses-when-trade-reopens

....or that HSBC will move to Paris if article 50 is invoked.

HSBC 'to move jobs to Paris if UK leaves single market' - BBC News

The confidence in the UK's enduring superiority is placed in factors remaining as they are, as in...still a member of the EU. Except if England leaves the EU, the reasons for its superiority will simply no longer be there. Cameron was a complete fool for placing the future of the nation in the hands of uneducated people who didn't understand even the smallest points of the topic, such as, oh, what the EU even does for them.

What has the European Union ever done for us? | UK Politics | News | The Independent

 

[whataboutbob]

That is the general nature of the crisis: the viability of the EU itself. However, presuming that the EU doesn't disintegrate, the EU as a whole is an infinitely more attractive market than England on its own. There is a reason that businesses are alarmed by Brexit...



https://www.theguardian.com/busines...further-post-brexit-losses-when-trade-reopens

....or that HSBC will move to Paris if article 50 is invoked.

HSBC 'to move jobs to Paris if UK leaves single market' - BBC News

The confidence in the UK's enduring superiority is placed in factors remaining as they are, as in...still a member of the EU. Except if England leaves the EU, the reasons for its superiority will simply no longer be there. Cameron was a complete fool for placing the future of the nation in the hands of uneducated people who didn't understand even the smallest points of the topic, such as, oh, what the EU even does for them.

What has the European Union ever done for us? | UK Politics | News | The Independent

Again... your articles are dated. They feared a further downturn. That fear was unwarranted as of today. The markets ended the day near where they were at the close of Thursday. Thus, the downturn they had experienced had rebounded back. The EU is not a stronger entity than the UK. They do have the fourth and sixth largest economies in the world but they also have the dead weights that are Greece, Spain, Portugal and many of the Eastern European countries. They also have a big whole to fill in what the UK was providing to them. They do not have a substitute banking system that is on par with that of the UK.

The UK will not suddenly cease to be a trading partner with the US, China and most of the rest of the world. It simply won't happen. The pound is certainly lower than it should be, but that will HELP exports. Again, it is no coincidence that the markets in Germany and France fell harder than that of the UK. The media and politicians are trying to invoke fear because they want to maintain the status quo which helps them keep hold of their power.

 

[Cardinal]

Again... your articles are dated. They feared a further downturn. That fear was unwarranted as of today. The markets ended the day near where they were at the close of Thursday. Thus, the downturn they had experienced had rebounded back. The EU is not a stronger entity than the UK. They do have the fourth and sixth largest economies in the world but they also have the dead weights that are Greece, Spain, Portugal and many of the Eastern European countries. They also have a big whole to fill in what the UK was providing to them. They do not have a substitute banking system that is on par with that of the UK.

The UK will not suddenly cease to be a trading partner with the US, China and most of the rest of the world. It simply won't happen. The pound is certainly lower than it should be, but that will HELP exports. Again, it is no coincidence that the markets in Germany and France fell harder than that of the UK. The media and politicians are trying to invoke fear because they want to maintain the status quo which helps them keep hold of their power.

Dated??? The oldest link is five days old, and that just simply outlined benefits of being in the UK!

I'm not talking about the market panic. I'm talking about actual perks that the UK's economy enjoyed as a result of being in the EU, perks they no longer have and which businesses and banks are seriously using as reasons for leaving. Did you actually click on any of those links?

This link is 23 minutes old. Is that recent enough or is it still "dated?"

"Brexiters" promised a departure from the European Union would save Britain money, allowing it to invest in public services and limit immigration. Less than a week after Britons voted to exit the EU, the world’s second largest telecom company has announced it is considering moving its headquarters from London to mainland Europe.

Vodafone said it is important to retain access to EU’s free “movement of people, capital, and goods,” it wrote in an emailed statement to several media organizations. "It is ... not yet possible to draw any firm conclusions regarding the long-term location for the headquarters," it said. "We will continue to evaluate the situation."

Why Brexit vote prompted Vodafone to contemplate leaving Britain - CSMonitor.com

This one is a whole 14 hours old. Is this still dated?

Vodafone and easyJet have both raised the prospect of moving their headquarters out of the UK in the aftermath of Britain's decision to leave the European Union.

The vote for Brexit could also prompt the credit card company Visa to relocate hundreds of British jobs to the continent, according to reports last night.

Meanwhile, Felix Hufeld, the head of Germany's influential financial regulator Bafin, said yesterday that he could not see London hosting the headquarters of the "eurozone's most important" stock exchange after Britain's exit, casting fresh doubts about the planned merger of the London Stock Exchange and Deutsche Boerse.

UK firms mull moves in wake of Brexit

Maybe you don't understand the appeal of EU's market, but banks and businesses in the UK sure seem to get it.

 

[SailaWay]

Euro Union nation has LOST TRILLIONS with MERKELS Horrendous error.. will she be thrown in jail?

each and every day since the vote.. Uk stock has beat france and germany each day with germany the worst each day

canada will benefit greatly from this as well as america with trading strong with UK.. same with austrailia

for the WEEK after the vote.... UK GAINED 2.6%....all the rest had a minus... France 5.1%.. Germany 5.6%..Spain 8.1%..Italy 9.8%.. Ireland 11.7%...Greece 12.3%... and each of the nordic states in the euro union lost and these will vote to secede from the union and the reason why they lost less..

WHAT a MONSTROUS ERROR by MERKEL...!!!

and how the very young voted shows this issue was a wisdom test for voters.. 75% of 18-25 voted to remain in union which means the others more experienced and wiser voted in a landslide to exit

and the stock markets proves who are the wiinners and losers and also shows if you let unwise people vote a nation WILL BE THE LOSER.. so soon there will be a world wide wisdom test for voters and no more liberalism..

THIS also will bring te conservative states to separate from the liberals states.... WELCOME TO THE CONSERVATIVE STATES OF AMERICA

 

[blaxshep]

UK firms mull moves in wake of Brexit

Maybe you don't understand the appeal of EU's market, but banks and businesses in the UK sure seem to get it.

Odd that Liberals are now so suddenly concerned about the profits of big banks and evil corporations.

 

[whataboutbob]

Dated??? The oldest link is five days old, and that just simply outlined benefits of being in the UK!

I'm not talking about the market panic. I'm talking about actual perks that the UK's economy enjoyed as a result of being in the EU, perks they no longer have and which businesses and banks are seriously using as reasons for leaving. Did you actually click on any of those links?

This link is 23 minutes old. Is that recent enough or is it still "dated?"



Why Brexit vote prompted Vodafone to contemplate leaving Britain - CSMonitor.com

This one is a whole 14 hours old. Is this still dated?



UK firms mull moves in wake of Brexit

Maybe you don't understand the appeal of EU's market, but banks and businesses in the UK sure seem to get it.

Try not to get your undies in a bunch. The 'dated' comment was regarding the portion that you quoted regarding the 'fears that the markets would shed billions more on Monday'... again... that was dated. Which is why I specified in my comments the discussion on the markets falling further. If you weren't talking about the markets, then why did you quote a portion of the article... talking about the markets?

Again... saying the 'perks' of being in being gone is pointless at this time, because (1) you don't know what trade agreements will look like and thus have no idea what will and won't continue... you are simply embarking on the ignorant fear campaign that the status quo powers want you to follow (2) you ignore the benefits they get from leaving.

Saying firms are 'contemplating' moves is also pointless. Of course firms are going to evaluate changes. I would be shocked if they didn't. But again, you look at possible job losses and forget they also have the ability to control immigration and thus also reduce the number of people in the UK seeking jobs. They also have a couple million employees from the EU that are not citizens of the UK. They thus have the ability to control who gets to stay and who doesn't.

Bottom line, it is going to come down to where the companies want to locate and that is going to be driven by more than the ability of the employees to flow from one market to another. Taxation, regulations etc... are all going to factor in.

Again for the banks... even your articles state that it is unlikely the banking world shifts too much from the UK. Where would they go? What is the alternative in the EU? Germany? Switzerland? Def not France.