Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver mail

[Manc Skipper]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

I was referring to the letter carrier's actions, not their gender, as that would be descending into irrelevance. They are not fulfilling the contract by not delivering to the addressee's address.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Interesting twist. But here is the thing, even criminals are entitled to use the USPS. Even people who break federal, state, AND local laws are permitted to use the USPS. The postal worker doesn't know if the mail he is carrying contains anything illegal so he must treat it like regular mail. If he suspects it contains something criminal then he has to report it to the Postal Inspector who can then decide if a warrant should be requested to open it.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, there is no federal law against merely entering a marijuana shop.

But I also wouldn't feel comfortable firing the guy over it, either. And I fully support the legalization of marijuana.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

see post 18. That why he shouldn't be made to continue to deliver mail and why this business would need to install an external box.

Even if they were smoking marijuana inside, it would need to be ridiculously thick with smoke and he would need prolonged exposure to even register as a false positive.

"On the other hand, just being in the room with someone who is smoking marijuana is not going to trigger false positive results, no matter what your child claims, he says."

Drug Tests Often Trigger False Positives

And they don't smoke in these establishments. Further, he's at risk of inhaling marijuana smoke anywhere, not just at a dispensary. I'd actually think there is a low risk of incidental exposure at a dispensary, they don't smoke at those places.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

The difference is, it is legal for gays to be issued marriage licenses, it is not legal to operate a criminal drug business.

The postman (who another media outlet in the local area is saying is a postWOman) has been delivering mail, just not entering the criminal pot business. it is not arbitrary, any more so then the law forbidding this operation. I don't think it's fair to require employees to enter illegal or unsafe situations.

They could just the same have an opinion that some business that's under investigation for some crime, declare that it's unsafe for them to do their job, and just not deliver mail there ? Sorry, no; that is not an appropriate response for a paid professional.

This postal worker should rightly be sitting in jail right now.

"18 U.S. Code § 1703 - Delay or destruction of mail or newspapers

(a) Whoever, being a Postal Service officer or employee, unlawfully secretes, destroys, detains, delays, or opens any letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail entrusted to him or which shall come into his possession, and which was intended to be conveyed by mail, or carried or delivered by any carrier or other employee of the Postal Service, or forwarded through or delivered from any post office or station thereof established by authority of the Postmaster General or the Postal Service, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1703

They don't get to decide who gets mail and who doesn't. Reneging on a legal responsibility of your job is not an appropriate way to voice such a concern.

It doesn't make any sense, whatsoever, to give postal workers the ability to arbitrarily refuse to deliver mail. They shouldn't be making that decision themselves.

 

[PirateMk1]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Even if they were smoking marijuana inside, it would need to be ridiculously thick with smoke and he would need prolonged exposure to even register as a false positive.

"On the other hand, just being in the room with someone who is smoking marijuana is not going to trigger false positive results, no matter what your child claims, he says."

Drug Tests Often Trigger False Positives

And they don't smoke in these establishments. Further, he's at risk of inhaling marijuana smoke anywhere, not just at a dispensary. I'd actually think there is a low risk of incidental exposure at a dispensary, they don't smoke at those places.

Its a legitimate concern from my point of view. I have a business in what is considered a "safety risk" profession and I have to participate in a drug consortium and get tested. As such I have to be careful about where I go and hell what I eat. I see his point of view clearly and it is not unreasonable.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

He may not have any moral issue with it at all. It may be a concern for his health. Even if it is just moral, no one else gets to decide his morality, which means no one gets to say that he should consider any of those other places as being on the same moral level as the pot shop.

Neither concern is a valid reason to justify the postal worker then breaking the law as they have been doing.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

exactly, it may not even be moral.

I do not consider payday lenders or title pawn to be morally superior to pot shops.

in fact I think an honestly run pot shop is morally superior to
>payday lenders
>title pawn
>casinos
>Nevada brothels
>check cashers (which in most but not all cases run out of payday lenders and title pawn)
> "tote the note" car dealers
>slum lords

but the fact is, whether we like it or not, those types of businesses are generally legal.

and selling drugs is not. morality doesn't have to enter into this.

So you would support if all mail service stopped to all liquor stores and bars ?

Electricity, sewage, water- it's cool if all those city workers neglect to service whoever they don't like ...?

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

why? should he be required to enter a meth lab to deliver mail ?

The postal service is actually trying to work with this woman who owns the Marijuana shops, she has it in her head that she has a god given right to have the postwoman (just confirmed this morning, the "dick" letter carrier does in fact, not have a dick) walk in to her shop, which is operating in violation of federal law. openly so.

Now maybe she is, I don't know her motivation for not entering the shop, but it doesn't matter to me, I identify with working people and I don't think it's fair to require you to help illegal business for wages.

and this type of issue has come up before, a religious postman several years ago wouldn't walk inside to Elmo's adult books and nolvelties (which is located in the same town, on the same street as the pot business in this story) and according to local media sources the porn shop simply installed an exterior letter box and this was a solution, this is a far stronger case for not entering then the porn shop.

Irrelevant. The porn shop wasn't legally compelled to provide an external mailbox and this marijuana shop has no such obligation.

Like it or not, these are legitimate businesses now. Even if a DEA raid hit the moment the postal worker entered, i don't see how anyone could possibly create a case against the postal worker who was only there delivering mail. The postal worker absolutely did not commit any crime by delivering mail, in fact, i explained that they have committed a crime by their illegal protest of not delivering/delaying the delivery of mail.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Its a legitimate concern from my point of view. I have a business in what is considered a "safety risk" profession and I have to participate in a drug consortium and get tested. As such I have to be careful about where I go and hell what I eat. I see his point of view clearly and it is not unreasonable.

I understand why someone might be concerned about that, but the concern is illusory and that illusory concern has now resulted in a postal worker breaking the law.

And why did the postal worker break the law ..? To... Avoid unlawful activity ...?

Give me a break. This postal worker has no leg to stand on.

 

[PirateMk1]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

I understand why someone might be concerned about that, but the concern is illusory and that illusory concern has now resulted in a postal worker breaking the law.

And why did the postal worker break the law ..? To... Avoid unlawful activity ...?

Give me a break. This postal worker has no leg to stand on.

You consider it illusory, I don't. I think he is justified myself. Personally if it was me I would trade routes.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

I was referring to the letter carrier's actions, not their gender, as that would be descending into irrelevance. They are not fulfilling the contract by not delivering to the addressee's address.

They are delivering to their address. The mail carrier doesn't have to enter a building to deliver to your address.


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[roguenuke]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Interesting twist. But here is the thing, even criminals are entitled to use the USPS. Even people who break federal, state, AND local laws are permitted to use the USPS. The postal worker doesn't know if the mail he is carrying contains anything illegal so he must treat it like regular mail. If he suspects it contains something criminal then he has to report it to the Postal Inspector who can then decide if a warrant should be requested to open it.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, there is no federal law against merely entering a marijuana shop.

But I also wouldn't feel comfortable firing the guy over it, either. And I fully support the legalization of marijuana.

The postal worker is not refusing to deliver the persons mail. They are only refusing to enter the store. Whether due to conflict with his/her moral code or concern for her/his health, the worker can request an alternative delivery site. Considering I own my own house and we still have to have our mail delivered to a kiosk, I feel little sympathy for someone who has to walk just outside their door or to their other business for their mail.


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[Manc Skipper]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

How is that done from outside? Abandon it on the step? It's manufactured petty stupidity, in the same vein as the "Christian" bakers.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

So you would support if all mail service stopped to all liquor stores and bars ?

Electricity, sewage, water- it's cool if all those city workers neglect to service whoever they don't like ...?

Did the mail service stop? Was she refused service? No. The mail carrier is not required to deliver to wherever you want them to.


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[roguenuke]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

How is that done from outside? Abandon it on the step? It's manufactured petty stupidity, in the same vein as the "Christian" bakers.

How is what done from outside? Pretty sure the mail either gets delivered by having someone come pick it up from just outside the door (most businesses have doorbells) or they deliver it to a different business nearby the owner also owns.


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[roguenuke]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Neither concern is a valid reason to justify the postal worker then breaking the law as they have been doing.

Prove the postal worker broke a law. What law was broken?


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[Lethargic Aptitude]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

I read this story, and I'm on the side of the post office worker, regardless of whatever state licneses this business possesses, those licenses carry the same weight as monopoly money under federal law, should a letter carrier be required to deliver mail to marijuana shops?

Some pot shops not getting mail delivered to stores



oh this gem is great



Still, federal law makes it illegal to distribute controlled substances, and this postman by knowingly facilitating this business that's openly operating in violation of the law could technically be guilty of engaging in a conspiracy to deliver controlled substances, it is not reasonable to expect him to risk prison time to deliver mail inside an operating criminal enterprise (and don't take that as a judgemental term, that is the term "criminal enterprise" used in federal law to describe organized distributors of illegal drugs)

what do you think?

In interest of disclosure, my hometown is the adjacent city of Port Orchard and I took some college in Bremerton and do a good deal of business in this town, This mj shop is in a fairly sketchy neighborhood too. there's a porn shop, payday lenders, a title pawn, three different 2 dollar wok joints, etc. just so you can picture this.

FFS he is just a mailman. Delivering mail and picking up mail is his ****ing job. if he doesnt want to do that, he can go flip burgers.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

You consider it illusory, I don't. I think he is justified myself. Personally if it was me I would trade routes.

The postal worker is not refusing to deliver the persons mail. They are only refusing to enter the store. Whether due to conflict with his/her moral code or concern for her/his health, the worker can request an alternative delivery site. Considering I own my own house and we still have to have our mail delivered to a kiosk, I feel little sympathy for someone who has to walk just outside their door or to their other business for their mail.


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The USPS has policies on what the requirements are to receive mail.

This lone mail carrier is not allowed to make up their own policies as they go along.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Even if they were smoking marijuana inside, it would need to be ridiculously thick with smoke and he would need prolonged exposure to even register as a false positive.

"On the other hand, just being in the room with someone who is smoking marijuana is not going to trigger false positive results, no matter what your child claims, he says."

Drug Tests Often Trigger False Positives

And they don't smoke in these establishments. Further, he's at risk of inhaling marijuana smoke anywhere, not just at a dispensary. I'd actually think there is a low risk of incidental exposure at a dispensary, they don't smoke at those places.

You do realize another risk from marijuana is breathing in mold right? There is no actual process in place to certify marijuana as mold free. It's considered legitimate enough for first responders to be recommended to wear respiratory protection if they respond to an indoor pot growing operation/house.


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[roguenuke]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

The USPS has policies on what the requirements are to receive mail.

This lone mail carrier is not allowed to make up their own policies as they go along.

And show the policy that says they have to deliver the mail to a business owner inside their business.


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[roguenuke]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

FFS he is just a mailman. Delivering mail and picking up mail is his ****ing job. if he doesnt want to do that, he can go flip burgers.

Federal job in which the place he is delivering to is violating federal laws even if those laws are temporarily not being enforced.


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[Absentglare]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Prove the postal worker broke a law. What law was broken?


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Here :

They could just the same have an opinion that some business that's under investigation for some crime, declare that it's unsafe for them to do their job, and just not deliver mail there ? Sorry, no; that is not an appropriate response for a paid professional.

This postal worker should rightly be sitting in jail right now.

"18 U.S. Code § 1703 - Delay or destruction of mail or newspapers

(a) Whoever, being a Postal Service officer or employee, unlawfully secretes, destroys, detains, delays, or opens any letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail entrusted to him or which shall come into his possession, and which was intended to be conveyed by mail, or carried or delivered by any carrier or other employee of the Postal Service, or forwarded through or delivered from any post office or station thereof established by authority of the Postmaster General or the Postal Service, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1703

They don't get to decide who gets mail and who doesn't. Reneging on a legal responsibility of your job is not an appropriate way to voice such a concern.

It doesn't make any sense, whatsoever, to give postal workers the ability to arbitrarily refuse to deliver mail. They shouldn't be making that decision themselves.

"... detains, delays, ...mail entrusted to him or which shall come into his possession, and which was intended to be conveyed by mail...shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Here :



"... detains, delays, ...mail entrusted to him or which shall come into his possession, and which was intended to be conveyed by mail...shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."

Prove that he/she was delaying the mail by refusing to walk into the shop. That is most certainly not a requirement. I could easily say that by requiring me to have a mailbox at the top of the road rather delivering directly to my house the post office is delaying my mail if that's the only thing required under that chapter. There is nothing that requires a mail carrier to risk their health to deliver the mail, even temporarily while waiting for a decision.


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[clownboy]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

You do realize another risk from marijuana is breathing in mold right? There is no actual process in place to certify marijuana as mold free. It's considered legitimate enough for first responders to be recommended to wear respiratory protection if they respond to an indoor pot growing operation/house.


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First, yes there is an actual process to certify the lack of mold. In fact it's part of the requirements in both CO and OR regulation. Also, at least in OR here, grow operations are not part of sales operations. Different locations. But nice try.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

First, yes there is an actual process to certify the lack of mold. In fact it's part of the requirements in both CO and OR regulation. Also, at least in OR here, grow operations are not part of sales operations. Different locations. But nice try.

Can you provide it for Washington since the story I just read on it (from last year) claimed there was no such process. Perhaps they got it wrong.


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