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Breaking: Israel launches 'preemptive strike' against Iran, declares state of emergency

sanman said:
Iranians now using MIRV warheads - take a look up



North Korea's been working on this tech for some time, and could have proliferated it to them. Anything's possible.
Whatcha gonna do about it?

Are you up for another right-wing coup in South Korea, to bring back military dictatorship there? (The last one fizzled when the citizenry revolted)
Because short of that, I don't see how you're going to suppress that axis.
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The US (and others), have had MIRV nukes for decades.

en.wikipedia.org

Multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
There was never a threat from Iran, and MAGA is a tool of Israel, not America. The entire MAGA movement is based on a lie. It's just a vehicle to enact a pro-Israel agenda, either by infiltration or design. The fact that among Trump's first acts was to tear up the Iran Nuclear Deal, which brought us to this very day, is telling.

 
trixare4kids said:
Like what? If we render them incapable, what consequences do you foresee? Freedom at last for the Iranian people is a bad thing?
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Yeah…because power vacuums never leave space for even worse actors to step into that space
iguanaman said:
The rest will work itself out
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Yeah…we’ve seen that happen in so many places, right?
multivita-man said:
Once foreigners start bombing the shit out a country, the people have a tendency to forget how much they hate their leadership and realize how much they hate the foreigners bombing them
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Yep.

All the US getting involved in this war in any capacity other than helping defensively to protect Israeli citizens does is paint a larger target on the US for all the terrorists that seem to spring forth out of Iran.
 
multivita-man said:
Iran's 'security' is a joke. I'm beginning to think that Iran was in no way prepared to fight an actual war with any of its major adversaries. It had the proxy thing down pretty well until Israeli intelligence infiltrated and then destroyed them.

I've been a harsh critical of Israel and remain so, and I will continue to be as long as they ignore international law. At the same time, I can't help but think that maybe Iran's regime has brought their destruction upon themselves. Nobody put a gun to their head and forced them to be arch enemies with Israel or the United States; that was their choice.

I know there's a rather unflattering history of outside powers manipulating ME states, including Iran, for their own access to resources (petroleum energy being the chief one), but I think compromises could have been made somewhere along the way, particularly when it comes to the rhetoric and stances regarding Israel's legitimacy coupled with the use of proxies to hit inside Israel.
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I would disagree somewhat. The CIA-led coup in 1953 which you mentioned; the installation of a hated pro-Washington dictator (the Shah), and the subsequent Islamic Revolution are all consequences of British and American greed for Iran's oil. Iran's leadership-and I suspect many of a certain generation-have no reason to trust the West. Yes, I agree the choice to attack the West and Israel was Iran's alone, but it wasn't conceived out of a vacuum, and was no more or less heinous than our illegal invasion of Iraq, for example.
 
As a pawn for Israeli/ zionist militancy, Trump has betrayed Americans. The manufactured war against Iran will not end with these bombings. The Muslim world will see it for what it is, an attempt to create another failed state vis a vis international lawlessness. In addition to the Palestinian slaughter, this incursion will foment more hatred for the US. I think the net result here will be the removal of Trump from office. He's clearly not prioritizing American interests or the US citizens he swore allegiance to with this reckless involvement
 
snakestretcher said:
I would disagree somewhat. The CIA-led coup in 1953 which you mentioned; the installation of a hated pro-Washington dictator (the Shah), and the subsequent Islamic Revolution are all consequences of British and American greed for Iran's oil. Iran's leadership-and I suspect many of a certain generation-have no reason to trust the West. Yes, I agree the choice to attack the West and Israel was Iran's alone, but it wasn't conceived out of a vacuum, and was no more or less heinous than our illegal invasion of Iraq, for example.
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I understand what you're saying and agree with the general thrust of it. I can completely understand why an Iranian regime would not trust the US and other Western powers given the history. It makes sense that an Iranian regime would be wary of the US and want to arm itself in its own defense and in defense of legitimate national security and economic interests.

But a regime in Iran's position could have at any time over the past 45 years done more toward a detente. This particular regime decided it can't, probably because it has always envisioned itself as a dominant regional power. Conversely, many of the very same nations with whom Israel went to war in 1967 and 1973 have since come to some sort of resolution with Israel, even if everyone in the region sleeps with one eye open. I'm not saying the US and Israel are right and Iran's wrong. But a regime in Iran's position could have made some different diplomatic decisions over the years that might have helped it avoid the crisis it faces now. To be fair, Israel and the US could have, too.
 
BirdinHand said:
Yeah…because power vacuums never leave space for even worse actors to step into that space

Yeah…we’ve seen that happen in so many places, right?

Yep.

All the US getting involved in this war in any capacity other than helping defensively to protect Israeli citizens does is paint a larger target on the US for all the terrorists that seem to spring forth out of Iran.
Click to expand...

Maybe to add a post-script to what I said, do I think that the bombings are putting pressure on Iran's regime? Absolutely. No question about it. Particularly as more and more of Iran's leadership gets picked off. Iran was caught completely off-guard and they're struggling to recover.

But even if Iran's de jure regime collapses, someone is going to have to fill that power vacuum or there's going to be chaos, which is going to introduce an entirely new set of problems for the region, as well as for Israel and US security.

Ideally (and I'm not really sure how possible this is now but ideally), Iran's leadership sees its own life flash before its eyes, agrees to stop enrichment and full inspections, and we can stop this conflict before it goes too far out of control.
 
multivita-man said:
Maybe to add a post-script to what I said, do I think that the bombings are putting pressure on Iran's regime? Absolutely. No question about it. Particularly as more and more of Iran's leadership gets picked off. Iran was caught completely off-guard and they're struggling to recover.

But even if Iran's de jure regime collapses, someone is going to have to fill that power vacuum or there's going to be chaos, which is going to introduce an entirely new set of problems for the region, as well as for Israel and US security.
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Yep.

No doubt there is already internal power struggles going on since the bombing of Iran began.

And no doubt that this will simply lead to MORE hatred towards Israel and the US.

So much winning 🙄
 
Hamish Howl said:
I gotta say, dude, you're whistling past the graveyard.

Iran got caught with their pants down. They are not going to recover in the near term.
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Which is entirely different than what is being asserted here, which is that the government of Iran has collapsed.
 
Hamish Howl said:
Iran is out of the fight in any serious way. They simply weren't ready when the attack began.

And it looks very much like the F35 works as advertised.
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They don’t look remotely interested in “unconditional surrender”, and definitely aren’t going to be giving up on the nuclear program after the US proved negotiations with it were pointless.

But not without losses in the process.
 
sanman said:
Iranians now using MIRV warheads - take a look up



North Korea's been working on this tech for some time, and could have proliferated it to them. Anything's possible.
Whatcha gonna do about it?

Are you up for another right-wing coup in South Korea, to bring back military dictatorship there? (The last one fizzled when the citizenry revolted)
Because short of that, I don't see how you're going to suppress that axis
Click to expand...

There is nothing in the mainstream news about this
 
Desert Storm said:
There is nothing in the mainstream news about this
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Just like the same MSM avoid covering anything that makes Ukraine look unlikely to win.
The same MSM aren't covering North Korea's announcement that it will provide military aid to Iran.
I think that the North Koreans are increasingly adept at missile technology, and will be sharing their tech with Iran -- and vice-versa.
These wars are going to result in a lot of cross-pollination of tech in ways that the US and its allies will not like.
 
reinaert said:
I want to know who jeers both.
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Jeers:

Iran -- Quds Force of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard for organizing, supporting, and occasionally leading local forces outside Iran's territory. Purpose is to serve the interests of the IRGC and Iran's clerics.

Israel -- The virtually unrestrained intrusion of settlers to confiscate land and property occupied by West Bank Arabs. This includes the settlers' claims to rightfully establish settlements in all of Judea and Samaria.
 
Israeli strikes have hit several nuclear and military sites, killing top generals and nuclear scientists. A Washington-based Iranian human rights group said at least 585 people, including 239 civilians, have been killed and more than 1,300 wounded.

Iran has fired some 400 missiles and hundreds of drones in retaliatory strikes that have killed at least 24 people in Israel and wounded hundreds. Some have hit apartment buildings in central Israel, causing heavy damage, and air raid sirens have repeatedly forced Israelis to run for shelter.

Iran has fired fewer missiles as the conflict has worn on. It has not explained the decline, but Israel has targeted launchers and other infrastructure related to the missiles.

Casualties mount in Iran
www.wsbtv.com

Iran's leader rejects call to surrender, saying US intervention would cause 'irreparable damage'

Iran’s supreme leader has rejected U.S. calls for surrender in the face of blistering Israeli strikes and warned that any military involvement by the Americans would cause “irreparable damage” to them
www.wsbtv.com www.wsbtv.com

If Trump supports this conduct and escalates/facilitates more international murder, he has to be impeached by his party and replaced. It's a moral responsibility if he escalates
 
Russia has a vested interest in BRICS, and will defend it. Iran is a member:

BRICS currently consists of ten member countries: Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, Indonesia, and the United Arab Emirates.

Should Trump escalate, it will pit Russia, India and China - three major powers - against the US - and will endanger US relations with the rest of BRICS, some of which are already shaky. Nobody likes a bully. Egypt's cooperation with us is paramount in the region, and risking it is irrational
 
Logophile said:
Russia has a vested interest in BRICS, and will defend it. Iran is a member:

BRICS currently consists of ten member countries: Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, Indonesia, and the United Arab Emirates.

Should Trump escalate, it will pit Russia, India and China - three major powers - against the US - and will endanger US relations with the rest of BRICS, some of which are already shaky. Nobody likes a bully. Egypt's cooperation with us is paramount in the region, and risking it is irrational
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Russia doesnt have the capability to fight a war on 2 fronts (Ukraine and Iran)
 
"Axis of resistance" when asked to resist and not kill innocent civilians:

1750251530780.webp
 
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