Breaking: Israel launches 'preemptive strike' against Iran, declares state of emergency

[ASHES]

doesnt matter. Both are deeply staunched in their make believe world.

Ignores history.

 

[madman]

Ignores history.

You can not disprove my point. Both are highly religious countries.
make no mistake.

 

[sanman]

Israelis crying because the homes they were living in got bombed into rubble... hmm...

... is there a word or phrase to describe this?

 

[ASHES]

You can not disprove my point. Both are highly religious countries.
make no mistake.

You haven't proved a point to disprove, you just made an assertion that the Israeli government is just as blinded by ideological hatred as the Islamist regime in Iran, and that's just factually untrue.

That which is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

 

[ASHES]

Israelis crying because their homes were bombed into rubble... hmm...

F him.

 

[madman]

You haven't proved a point to disprove, you just made an assertion that the Israeli government is just as blinded by ideological hatred as the Islamist regime in Iran, and that's just factually untrue.

That which is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

as i said, both countries hold fundamentalist values in their government.

 

[ASHES]

as i said, both countries hold fundamentalist values in their government.

And the Islamic one has the purpose of hunting down and murdering all the Jewish people, and the Jewish one is to not be genocided again.

 

[Variant]

Agreed - impunity is the issue.

If global norms were applied consistently, states might actually trust them instead of chasing nukes. Unfortunately, aspiring to fairness seems increasingly utopian.

I guess we could start with making the rules less obviously rigged for some. When countries see that norms are only enforced when convenient, the message is "get nukes or get wrecked" and that’s resignation, not be confused with realism.

I think it would take a lot of work regardless. I think my point stands though that we aren't particularly good at dealing with power imbalances.

The problem is that there are always those who will take advantage of such a situation, and not necessarily an intolerance for such an impulse on the national level.

This is likely because dealing with such a situation just requires creating a power imbalance of your own based upon convincing enough countries to act (than if you accomplish this, you then have to not take advantage of it).

 

[madman]

And the Islamic one has the purpose of hunting down and murdering all the Jewish people, and the Jewish one is to not be genocided again.

and vise versa. That is my understanding.

 

[ASHES]

and vise versa. That is my understanding.

That's why you're wrong.

 

[madman]

That's why you're wrong.

again, my point was BOTH governments are lead by religious fundies. BOTH!

 

[Variant]

again, my point was BOTH governments are lead by religious fundies. BOTH!

Yes sadly. I get to either sympathize with the country promising a genocide or one actively carrying one out.

I'm going with neither.

 

[cpwill]

That's because Israel keeps killing their nuclear scientists and sabotaging their program in other ways,

that has already been explained to him. He chooses to ignore it because it would mess up the anti-israel conspiracy nonsense he's got going on.

If Republicans had not been so hellbent on owning the libs, they could have supported Obama's framework, which, by all known measures, slowed down their enrichment program to a virtual standstill.

It did not - it maintained enrichment. What it did do was create a framework in which enrichment would not produce at the purity for nuclear weapons grade until 2025, because, as we all know, 2025 is way in the future, and so we don't have to worry about it.

Not saying they solved the problem long-term, but they did achieve meaningful progress in slowing it down and creating a framework for future dialogue. In fact, it was successful enough that - guess what - MAGA Jesus basically tried to restart that framework but wiping Obama's name off and putting his name on it.

Yeah. The two are similar at least in that way: so long as it said "deal" at the top, it would have their signature at the bottom.

I'd concede that there's context that needs to be added. Trump saw a nuke deal with Iran (framework 2.0, let's call it) as part of a much larger national security tilt away from the Middle East and Russia and toward China, which he views as a serious adversary. Obama had China and Russia in mind, too, but he saw a much deeper commitment to the Middle East militarily than Trump has and does.

I'm of two minds about that. Obama started the "Pivot", and put a lot into negotiating the TPP (which was quite beneficial, and which Trump seems to have torn up because he got embarrassed by Rand Paul for not knowing that it was an anti-China deal, rather than a deal to include and boost Chinese economic reach in the region)

Obama saw Russia as a pain in the ass but not a threat in the present, and I think he was wrong about that.

Yeah. Parties have kind of switched positions on Russia - I wouldn't have anticipated that in 2012.

 

[ASHES]

again, my point was BOTH governments are lead by religious fundies. BOTH!

My point is the fundamental beliefs are not equal. One is objectively much worse for humanity.

 

[sanman]

I admire his intellectual abilities and creative innovative thinking.

He's very good at discerning avenues of power.

Do you acknowledge and admire that he opposed Zionism and the forced displacement and subjugation of the native Palestinians?

 

[multivita-man]

Yeah. Parties have kind of switched positions on Russia - I wouldn't have anticipated that in 2012.

I think we're going to see some really strange bedfellows from now on, both domestically and internationally. I notice how nobody seems to give a shit about the EU's opinions these days.

 

[Uncensored2008]

"Between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty". Likud Charter, 1977. Think about that for a moment.

There should only be Israeli control of all Palestinian territory. Palestine is not a nation. It is a group of people ethnically related. They reside on land controlled by Israel.

I don't agree.

"Palestine" under the Ottoman Empire consisted of all of Israel, all of Lebanon, all of Jordan, and over half of Syria.

The British plan of Israel for the Jews, Lebanon for the Christians, and Jordan for the Muslims, with reunification for Syria always made sense.

Of course the Muslim Supremacists won't live in peace and overthrew Christian Lebanon. Demanding every square inch of land be ruled by Islam. The conflict now is because Muslim Supremacists will not tolerate Dhimmis having their own lands.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The Palestinians disagree...

There is no such thing as a "Palestinian."

You mean the Arabs - the Muslim Supremacists.

.as does the result of the globe outside the US.

Sounds like 1938 all over again.

 

[jaypatriot]

I don't agree.

"Palestine" under the Ottoman Empire consisted of all of Israel, all of Lebanon, all of Jordan, and over half of Syria.

The British plan of Israel for the Jews, Lebanon for the Christians, and Jordan for the Muslims, with reunification for Syria always made sense.

Of course the Muslim Supremacists won't live in peace and overthrew Christian Lebanon. Demanding every square inch of land be ruled by Islam. The conflict now is because Muslim Supremacists will not tolerate Dhimmis having their own lands.

You're right. Dhimmis living in an all Muslim neighborhood does not guarantee their survival.
But that's the lot they chose.
My hope is that Saudi Arabia and the Emirates get closer to Israel for their mutual benefit.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Yeah. Parties have kind of switched positions on Russia - I wouldn't have anticipated that in 2012.

Not at all.

Conservatives never supported Russia - we simply don't buy into Obama's war in Ukraine.

And you will note in this thread that the democrats are 100% behind Iran - which is tightly allied with Russia. democrats still support Russia, with many of them not even grasping that the party programming them to support Iran contradicts their programming to support Ukraine.

Those were Russian designed missiles hitting Tele Aviv.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You're right. Dhimmis living in an all Muslim neighborhood does not guarantee their survival.
But that's the lot they chose.
My hope is that Saudi Arabia and the Emirates get closer to Israel for their mutual benefit.

Good point. SA is next if Iran can take out Israel. They lust for control of the Kaaba - and the Idol. Those who control the idol control all of Islam.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Do you acknowledge and admire that he opposed Zionism and the forced displacement and subjugation of the native Palestinians?

And by "Native" you mean from Egypt and Yemen? That IS where the majority of Arabs in Israel are from, after all. Very few can trace lineage to living in Israel prior to 1949 - VERY few. The mass Arab population is an occupation army.

But that is in line with Muslim Supremacist goals.

 

[Tigerace117]

There is no such thing as a "Palestinian."

You mean the Arabs - the Muslim Supremacists.



Sounds like 1938 all over again.

Israeli mass murder campaigns haven’t wiped out the Palestinians and never will, no matter how desperately they and their Western apologists try.

 

[Tigerace117]

And the Islamic one has the purpose of hunting down and murdering all the Jewish people, and the Jewish one is to not be genocided again.

Wrong. The “Jewish” one is fervently murdering every Palestinian they can in hopes of stealing their land.

 

[cpwill]

I think we're going to see some really strange bedfellows from now on, both domestically and internationally. I notice how nobody seems to give a shit about the EU's opinions these days.

Yeah, we are getting a real education in horseshoe theory.

Conservatives never supported Russia

Conservatives do not support Russia, agreed.
Sadly, that is not true of all right wingers, many of whom do indeed support Russia.

- we simply don't buy into Obama's war in Ukraine.

Putin. It's Putins' war in Ukraine. Conservatives know this, just as we know that tariffs are taxes. Right wing radicals do not, because they repeat Kremlin propaganda like "Obama's war in Ukraine".

And you will note in this thread that the democrats are 100% behind Iran - which is tightly allied with Russia. democrats still support Russia, with many of them not even grasping that the party programming them to support Iran contradicts their programming to support Ukraine.

No, Democrats switched sides on Russia. Not because of its abuses of others, but because they believed Russia helped Trump in 2016. You have to find one pretty far on the horseshoe these days to find a Russia supporter. You will find many who reflexively oppose Israel, just as you will find many on the right who now do so.

Those were Russian designed missiles hitting Tele Aviv.

While Tuckers' favorite "historian" called for US missiles to do the same.