Boston Reality

[TurtleDude]

It took hundreds of cops and hundreds of shots to kill one bomber and disable his teenage brother and the authorities are telling the rest of us we should be limited to 10 or 7 shots.

Priceless

 

[MaggieD]

It took hundreds of cops and hundreds of shots to kill one bomber and disable his teenage brother and the authorities are telling the rest of us we should be limited to 10 or 7 shots.

Priceless

Gotta' admit, you've got a point.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Those were regularly trained gunmen, too! Imagine the random strays if amateurs were allowed to spray projectiles around the neighbourhood willy-nilly.

 

[Higgins86]

You should probably arm every American with pressure cooker bombs and grenades just to be safe.

 

[TurtleDude]

Those were regularly trained gunmen, too! Imagine the random strays if amateurs were allowed to spray projectiles around the neighbourhood willy-nilly.

more idiocy. the average CCW holder is a better shot than the average cop

 

[TurtleDude]

You should probably arm every American with pressure cooker bombs and grenades just to be safe.

I guess when you cannot address the point that civilians were the targets of these terrorists and its citizens who are most likely to first be confronted by terrorists, its idiocy to tell the vast majority of citizens they should be limited to inferior weapons to that which the terrorists have and the cops have.

when cops start using kettle bombs then you might have a point

I guess gun hate causes irrational responses to obvious reality because gun hate is of course- based on irrational emototionalism

 

[Higgins86]

I guess when you cannot address the point that civilians were the targets of these terrorists and its citizens who are most likely top first be confronted by terrorists, its idiocy to tell the vast majority of citizens they should be limited to inferior weapons to that which the terrorists have and the cops have.

when cops start using kettle bombs then you might have a point

I guess gun hate causes irrational responses to obvious reality because gun hate is of course- based on irrational emototionalism

The point which you missed was that their is always going to be someone with better toys than u.

 

[TurtleDude]

The point which you missed was that their is always going to be someone with better toys than u.

so your solution is to make sure that most of us have absolutely none

is that because you are afraid to use them and take the responsibility for their use?

do you project your fear of weapons onto others

or do you labour under the delusions that banning law abiding people from owning guns somehow prevents people who ignore capital murder laws from getting weapons?


the fact is I have better weapons than most cops. My pistols are top of the line custom rigs. And while my rifles do not have three round burst fire, they are better made than most police assault rifles I have better barrels, sights, etc. I also train constantly which is why I tend to crush police officers on police qualification courses or competitive shooting events that are tactical in nature

 

[aseidner]

more idiocy. the average CCW holder is a better shot than the average cop

That's pretty sad, but in my experience, I've actually seen that to be true. One of my friends at university who target shoots as a hobby did better at a shooting competition than a whole bunch of cops....

 

[Higgins86]

so your solution is to make sure that most of us have absolutely

is that because you are afraid to use them and take the responsibility for their use?

do you project your fear of weapons onto others

or do you labour under the delusions that banning law abiding people from owning guns somehow prevents people who ignore capital murder laws from getting weapons?


the fact is I have better weapons than most cops. My pistols are top of the line custom rigs. And while my rifles do not have three round burst fire, they are better made than most police assault rifles I have better barrels, sights, etc. I also train constantly which is why I tend to crush police officers on police qualification courses or competitive shooting events that are tactical in nature

Served in combat turtle dont need to prove anything to you or any other weekend warrior.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

more idiocy. the average CCW holder is a better shot than the average cop

Well then, with your superior accuracy and training, a crowd of people who can fire 7-10 rounds before reloading should be well-equipped.

 

[Wiseone]

It took hundreds of cops and hundreds of shots to kill one bomber and disable his teenage brother and the authorities are telling the rest of us we should be limited to 10 or 7 shots.

Priceless

Not really related is it?

 

[TurtleDude]

That's pretty sad, but in my experience, I've actually seen that to be true. One of my friends at university who target shoots as a hobby did better at a shooting competition than a whole bunch of cops....

my son has been shooting pistols since he was 7 or so-started with a little Walther P-22 and now is mostly shooting a Les Baer Premier II "single stack" USPSA competition pistol (1911, full tilt 45 ACP rounds) At a recent event he finished in the top 6 out of 90 (i was just ahead of him in 2nd). He beat every cop of the 11-12 that shot.

the fact is most cops only shoot 200 or less rounds a year. My son shoots that every week. competitive pistol shooters are the most likely to have a CCW. there are lots of reasons for that. I can carry my competition pistol to a tournament with all of the magazines completely loaded. Until recently, In Ohio, loaded magazines meant a loaded gun which was a misdemeanor (at least) if you did not have a CCW permit.

Most competitive pistol shooters shoot at least 5000 rounds a year. B class or higher USPSA shooters probably 2-3 times that. Master class shooters (USPSA action) or Camp Perry level bullseye shooters are shooting 20-50K or more rounds a year.

I think the year when I first made grandmaster in one action shooting discipline, I shot almost half as many rounds as the entire 1000 person Cincinnati Police Department combined.

 

[TurtleDude]

Not really related is it?

ah there is some more of that pro gun posting that you are known for. It is related. who was the first target of the terrorists-civilians who were not in uniform. If it took hundreds of cops and hundreds of rounds to merely take out two perhaps somewhat trained terrorists, we civilians who do not have body armor, backup, two way radios etc ought to have more than 7 rounds if say one of those terrorists had try to hijack our car

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

ah there is some more of that pro gun posting that you are known for. It is related. who was the first target of the terrorists-civilians who were not in uniform. If it took hundreds of cops and hundreds of rounds to merely take out two perhaps somewhat trained terrorists, we civilians who do not have body armor, backup, two way radios etc ought to have more than 7 rounds if say one of those terrorists had try to hijack our car

If you're a better shot than the cops, how is it that you need more than 4 shots to put down two guys trying to hijack your car?

 

[TurtleDude]

Well then, with your superior accuracy and training, a crowd of people who can fire 7-10 rounds before reloading should be well-equipped.

that's stupid. there is no legitimate reason why civilians who are not cops should have less rounds than cops

either people can be trusted with guns or not

the silly line drawing is designed to get down to zero shots

 

[TurtleDude]

If you're a better shot than the cops, how is it that you need more than 4 shots to put down two guys trying to hijack your car?

because sometimes everyone misses

if cops have 30 round magazines so should the rest of us because we generally are attacked by the same criminals cops fight and unlike cops, we don't pick the time and place and we don't have backup

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

that's stupid. there is no legitimate reason why civilians who are not cops should have less rounds than cops

either people can be trusted with guns or not

the silly line drawing is designed to get down to zero shots

You said you're more accurate than most cops. A crowd full of people with that kind of expertise should be able to dispense with a couple of bad guys with smaller clips, right?

The silly part is this -- the entire premise of this thread is a straw-man, I'm just giving the subject exactly as much respect as you did.

Personally, I think clip size limitations are stupid.

 

[ttwtt78640]

That's pretty sad, but in my experience, I've actually seen that to be true. One of my friends at university who target shoots as a hobby did better at a shooting competition than a whole bunch of cops....

That is not surprising at all. Many college athletes can beat the pro altheles at many events too. What one must consider is how little actual shooting skill is needed to get a CHL or to qualify as "adequate" for an LEO. Shooting at moving targets, that are returning fire, is a whole different ball game than making holes in stationary paper targets.

Texas CHL - shooting proficiency test

 

[rhinefire]

It took hundreds of cops and hundreds of shots to kill one bomber and disable his teenage brother and the authorities are telling the rest of us we should be limited to 10 or 7 shots.

Priceless

Beautiful post as it not only hits on guns it also hits on every other part of our lives and how we should behave while our fearless leaders vote themselves raises and pensions that last seven lifetimes after two years service. Back to guns........was it not the SOLUTION of the governement to riddle whatever they could hit!!!??? I wonr how many folks in Watertown will go out and buy a gun NOW!!

 

[Wiseone]

ah there is some more of that pro gun posting that you are known for. It is related. who was the first target of the terrorists-civilians who were not in uniform. If it took hundreds of cops and hundreds of rounds to merely take out two perhaps somewhat trained terrorists, we civilians who do not have body armor, backup, two way radios etc ought to have more than 7 rounds if say one of those terrorists had try to hijack our car

I agree the magazine limitations are dumb, but the amount of police that were used on the biggest high profile terrorist attack since 9/11, doesn't really have anything to do with the merits of magazine capacity.

 

[TurtleDude]

I agree the magazine limitations are dumb, but the amount of police that were used on the biggest high profile terrorist attack since 9/11, doesn't really have anything to do with the merits of magazine capacity.

the point is, when engaging a couple amateur terrorists, they needed hundreds of rounds to kill one and disable the other

 

[Wiseone]

the point is, when engaging a couple amateur terrorists, they needed hundreds of rounds to kill one and disable the other

Right and I don't see how that's relevant to the issue of magazine sizes. The worst thing we can do with this event is to try and twist and turn it into some kind of political issue, there's nothing liberal or conservative about a bombing, there's nothing about this event which should divide anyway but here we are with people on both the right and the left seeking to use it as a means to push a political issue

 

[CaptinSarcastic]

It took hundreds of cops and hundreds of shots to kill one bomber and disable his teenage brother and the authorities are telling the rest of us we should be limited to 10 or 7 shots.

Priceless

I wasn't there so I can't be sure of this, but I suspect the cops may have reloaded on occasion.

Is someone proposing a bill that limits the number of magazines you may possess?

Not that I think that limiting magazine size is going to have any effect. I thought it might help at first, and it would probably save a life or two every couple of years, but the vast majority of gun deaths would still happen if everyone were limited to one round. Two thirds of gun deaths are suicides, so the best way to reduce gun deaths is to get guns out of the hands of the suicidal. Reducing the number of people who own guns would help, but that is a shotgun approach (pun intended) and its more effective for friends and family to hold on the guns of a depressed person.

I have taken the guns away from three people, temporarily, and they have all said that it probably saved their lives. Suicidal feelings can be temporary, but suicide is not.

 

[CanadaJohn]

It took hundreds of cops and hundreds of shots to kill one bomber and disable his teenage brother and the authorities are telling the rest of us we should be limited to 10 or 7 shots.

Priceless

That's a very interesting perspective and matches some of the comments I've heard discussed this morning around whether or not people hunkering down in their homes in Boston on Friday would have felt safer if they had a gun for protection with an armed and dangerous terrorist on the loose close by and why should the government try to restrict that sense of personal and security.

The incidents in Boston this week may very well have ended any momentum there may have been for gun control and perhaps also harmed any future movement on immigration reform.