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Bipartisan deal close on expanded background checks

Catawba

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"The bipartisan group of four Senators who are negotiating over a proposal to expand the gun background check system privately met this week to discuss where things stand, according to sources familiar with ongoing talks. One source tells me the four Senators are “95 percent of the way there.”
This isn’t to say that the last five percent can’t scuttle the emerging compromise. As one source put it, that remains the “hardest part.” But there is reason for optimism that the four Senators — Republicans Tom Coburn and Mark Kirk, and Democrats Chuck Schumer and Joe Manchin — may be able to bridge remaining differences.

Here’s where things stand, according to several sources. There is general agreement on the concept of expanding the background check to cover most private sales, and on the concept of improving state mental illness data-sharing with the feds — which is important, because it means the four more or less agree on the fundamental policy goal here. The four Senators are in discussions about exemptions — sales among family members — and about tweaking the way background checks are performed for private sales in certain rural areas. But sources say those are unlikely to be sticking points. The four Senators are discussing yet another possible exception designed to make the deal more palatable to gun rights lawmakers: Exempting those who have already obtained “conceal and carry” permits, the idea being they’ve already undergone a background check.

One thing that still needs to be resolved is how to ensure that an expanded background check does not create some kind of national gun registry — again, in order to mollify gun rights lawmakers. The law as currently configured explicitly forbids the creation of any such registry, and it requires that any data collected during a legal gun transfer be destroyed within 24 hours. Despite this, the four Senators are discussing ways to write in new legislative language that would add additional safeguards against any data collection.

“There is complete agreement, among Democrats and Republicans in the talks, that nothing will be by law or look in any way like a national gun registry”

Bipartisan deal close on expanded background checks
 

ttwtt78640

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My main concerns are the cost and the records of ownership/transfers. As noted, issuing each citizen a permit is the smart way to go about it. Your gun buying status can only change by a court order, thus simply revoke that person's "GUN OK" ID as the NICS database is updated to reflect that status change. Doing the BG check for each gun/ammo purchase is way too much overhead.
 

Catawba

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My main concerns are the cost and the records of ownership/transfers. As noted, issuing each citizen a permit is the smart way to go about it. Your gun buying status can only change by a court order, thus simply revoke that person's "GUN OK" ID as the NICS database is updated to reflect that status change. Doing the BG check for each gun/ammo purchase is way too much overhead.

That may be the way they go. Either way is OK with me.
 

BretJ

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My main concerns are the cost and the records of ownership/transfers. As noted, issuing each citizen a permit is the smart way to go about it. Your gun buying status can only change by a court order, thus simply revoke that person's "GUN OK" ID as the NICS database is updated to reflect that status change. Doing the BG check for each gun/ammo purchase is way too much overhead.
In addition, a simple verification that the I'd is still OK would be painless. Do not associate the check with a purchase of any sort. Just a thought.
 

ttwtt78640

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In addition, a simple verification that the I'd is still OK would be painless. Do not associate the check with a purchase of any sort. Just a thought.

Exactly! Simply run the NICS BG checks for all adult US citizens, those that pass get a "GUN OK" designation on their state issued, photo ID. Then it is simple for the seller to check the potential buyer's ID, for all gun/ammo sales, just like for alcohol and tobacco sales. It also makes life easy for "on the street" enforcement by LEOs.
 

Catawba

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Exactly! Simply run the NICS BG checks for all adult US citizens, those that pass get a "GUN OK" designation on their state issued, photo ID. Then it is simple for the seller to check the potential buyer's ID, for all gun/ammo sales, just like for alcohol and tobacco sales. It also makes life easy for "on the street" enforcement by LEOs.

It would certainly be better than the allowing people to buy guns in 40 states without a background check.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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My main concerns are the cost and the records of ownership/transfers. As noted, issuing each citizen a permit is the smart way to go about it. Your gun buying status can only change by a court order, thus simply revoke that person's "GUN OK" ID as the NICS database is updated to reflect that status change. Doing the BG check for each gun/ammo purchase is way too much overhead.

Put it on the drivers license.
We can also do it with alcohol, restricting DUI folks by placing a "no alcohol" tag on the license/ID.
 

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I am now confused on the definition of ‘universal’. This is due to (from the OP source):
…expanding the background check to cover most private sales…
…exemptions — sales among family members —…
…tweaking the way background checks are performed for private sales in certain rural areas.
Exempting those who have already obtained “conceal and carry” permits…

As to the assertion from Third Way ‘that nothing will be by law or look in any way like a national gun registry’ note their explanation from the imbedded link:
The universal background check proposals currently before Congress would place the exact same restrictions on private sales, and these sales would mostly be conducted through the very same licensed firearms dealers.
It would appear the 'proposals' would direct private sales through 'licensed firearms dealers'. One must wonder how this could be enforced...

And considering this “One thing that still needs to be resolved is how to ensure that an expanded background check does not create some kind of national gun registry” I guess we will see once the bill is WRITTEN if there is any concern over registration…not sure anyone should get there hopes up...
 

Dickieboy

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It would certainly be better than the allowing people to buy guns in 40 states without a background check.

40 STATES DON'T PERFORM BACKGROUND CHECKS?!!! Aren't they in violation of FEDERAL LAW?
 

Catawba

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40 STATES DON'T PERFORM BACKGROUND CHECKS?!!! Aren't they in violation of FEDERAL LAW?

In 40 states, background checks are not required for private sales.
 

Catawba

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I am now confused on the definition of ‘universal’. This is due to (from the OP source):




As to the assertion from Third Way ‘that nothing will be by law or look in any way like a national gun registry’ note their explanation from the imbedded link:

It would appear the 'proposals' would direct private sales through 'licensed firearms dealers'. One must wonder how this could be enforced...

And considering this “One thing that still needs to be resolved is how to ensure that an expanded background check does not create some kind of national gun registry” I guess we will see once the bill is WRITTEN if there is any concern over registration…not sure anyone should get there hopes up...


Getting a bill passed is a matter of negotiation and compromise.
 

Dickieboy

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In 40 states, background checks are not required for private sales.

Getting a bill passed is a matter of negotiation and compromise.

Ah, so if they pass it as presented in the article won't some (arguably many based on the 'family member exclusion') still be sold/transfered without a background check? And again, how will they enforce this?
 
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AlabamaPaul

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Most people think is unwise to sell guns to people without a background check.

How granular would you like to go? Gifts? Sales to Friends? Sales to relatives?

Why do you advocate the Federal government being involved in a market?

I can understand your not wanting "bad" people having guns, but I believe you need to go after those "bad" people, not the other 99.9%...
 

Dickieboy

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Most people think is unwise to sell guns to people without a background check.

No, most people think it is unwise to sell guns to unstable/criminal folks...BGC's make little difference as those who comply are not the 'targeted' transactions.
 

ttwtt78640

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40 STATES DON'T PERFORM BACKGROUND CHECKS?!!! Aren't they in violation of FEDERAL LAW?

No. Federal now law applies only to sales by FFL dealers. They alone have access to the NICS database for doing BG checks.
 

Dickieboy

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No. Federal now law applies only to sales by FFL dealers. They alone have access to the NICS database for doing BG checks.

I know this but Cat's post inferred none were performed...presumably for dramatic effect...
 

Jerry

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"The bipartisan group of four Senators who are negotiating over a proposal to expand the gun background check system privately met this week to discuss where things stand, according to sources familiar with ongoing talks. One source tells me the four Senators are “95 percent of the way there.”
This isn’t to say that the last five percent can’t scuttle the emerging compromise. As one source put it, that remains the “hardest part.” But there is reason for optimism that the four Senators — Republicans Tom Coburn and Mark Kirk, and Democrats Chuck Schumer and Joe Manchin — may be able to bridge remaining differences.

Here’s where things stand, according to several sources. There is general agreement on the concept of expanding the background check to cover most private sales, and on the concept of improving state mental illness data-sharing with the feds — which is important, because it means the four more or less agree on the fundamental policy goal here. The four Senators are in discussions about exemptions — sales among family members — and about tweaking the way background checks are performed for private sales in certain rural areas. But sources say those are unlikely to be sticking points. The four Senators are discussing yet another possible exception designed to make the deal more palatable to gun rights lawmakers: Exempting those who have already obtained “conceal and carry” permits, the idea being they’ve already undergone a background check.

One thing that still needs to be resolved is how to ensure that an expanded background check does not create some kind of national gun registry — again, in order to mollify gun rights lawmakers. The law as currently configured explicitly forbids the creation of any such registry, and it requires that any data collected during a legal gun transfer be destroyed within 24 hours. Despite this, the four Senators are discussing ways to write in new legislative language that would add additional safeguards against any data collection.

“There is complete agreement, among Democrats and Republicans in the talks, that nothing will be by law or look in any way like a national gun registry”

Bipartisan deal close on expanded background checks
Just create a 'gun-ok' icon on your license, just like there's an organ donor and veteran icon available. Give the icon a reasonable fee, and then if you have it, you're good. If you don't, no gun for you.

No need to make all the red tape.
 

Jerry

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My main concerns are the cost and the records of ownership/transfers. As noted, issuing each citizen a permit is the smart way to go about it. Your gun buying status can only change by a court order, thus simply revoke that person's "GUN OK" ID as the NICS database is updated to reflect that status change. Doing the BG check for each gun/ammo purchase is way too much overhead.
Absolutely, a 'gun-ok' icon says you can buy a gun or ammo, just like your age icon says you can buy alcohol.
 

ttwtt78640

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I know this but Cat's post inferred none were performed...presumably for dramatic effect...

They are NOT performed except by FFL dealer sales in most states, that is now known as the "gun show" loophole. About 40% of all gun sales are now not through FFL dealers.
 

Catawba

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How granular would you like to go? Gifts? Sales to Friends? Sales to relatives?

I go along with the bipartisan bill for background checks as outlined so far above.

Why do you advocate the Federal government being involved in a market?

I care more about preventing innocent people being shot than about those that sell guns being able to profit without the requirement for background checks.

I can understand your not wanting "bad" people having guns, but I believe you need to go after those "bad" people, not the other 99.9%...

"Bad people" can buy guns in 40 states without a background check. Most people think its stupid to continue to allow that practice.
 

CalGun

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I didn't care for this at first, but its a better compromise then an expensive and archiac system - which is what the government usually has.


Put it on the drivers license.
We can also do it with alcohol, restricting DUI folks by placing a "no alcohol" tag on the license/ID.
 

Catawba

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No, most people think it is unwise to sell guns to unstable/criminal folks...BGC's make little difference as those who comply are not the 'targeted' transactions.

Only the far right thinks it makes little difference.
 
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